On the horizon: Ability Trees, Class Specializations, and Guilds

[Dorn]

All very interesting to read. I am so torn on choices.

On one hand, Gudleifr's axe. On the other, Tower Shield.

[Squeak]

Simply ability point investment? Might I ask what that's supposed to mean?

My wild guess is that it's like this thing you can choose to spend an ability point on, no getting back, no unlearn and permanent loss of one max slot for abilities, as a tradeoff of free attribute buffs.

From the way it sounds, if you want a primary attribute, you'd have to spend one of your very limited ability points. You can only learn one, of course, and there's no telling whether it is something that can be unlearned at a later point.

[Talyn]

I have a question, and I know that old Clok and what the game might be different, however, are all guilds going to have prerequisites on 'classes'? or will they be open to join? I just know that in the past some people found the Wyrvardn 'boring' cause they were the knights in shiny armour but that's not the case. Protecting people can vary on how you want to do it. Like there was a certain Wyrvardn NPC that used light armour with a musket. (Not sure if that has changed in Lore or not seeing as she doesn't give tasks anymore), which would be cool to see duelist in the Wyrvardns and all that. Talyn has a new thought on what he wants to do with his organization but I'm curious and excited to see what you have planned.

[Squeak]

All responses and elaboration appreciated, as always, I say.

I normally am not this guy, but I'm admittedly just excited. So, I have to ask.

Any rough idea on a timeline for when we might see general/specialized ability implementation? I'm not talking like-- a specific deadline by any means. But. Hypothetically, given no crazy breakdowns. A couple days? A cople weeks? A couple months? I just want to temper my expectations appropriately!

Thanks again for all of the explanation and setting of expectations.

Instead of how long, because that is a difficult thing to estimate and even worse to live up to that expectation, could we instead have an idea of how far along this overhaul has come already? A vague percentage is completely understandable, but gives us an idea without tying anyone to a date. We're all chomping at the bit in excitement, but we know it's a massive undertaking. A little tidbit would go a long way. Pretty please?

[verel]

All responses and elaboration appreciated, as always, I say.

I normally am not this guy, but I'm admittedly just excited. So, I have to ask.

Any rough idea on a timeline for when we might see general/specialized ability implementation? I'm not talking like-- a specific deadline by any means. But. Hypothetically, given no crazy breakdowns. A couple days? A cople weeks? A couple months? I just want to temper my expectations appropriately!

Thanks again for all of the explanation and setting of expectations.

Instead of how long, because that is a difficult thing to estimate and even worse to live up to that expectation, could we instead have an idea of how far along this overhaul has come already? A vague percentage is completely understandable, but gives us an idea without tying anyone to a date. We're all chomping at the bit in excitement, but we know it's a massive undertaking. A little tidbit would go a long way. Pretty please?

I'm guessing if Rias is announcing these changes, I'd give it a good 75% or so. Doesn't seem like the type to announce something at 30 or less percent completion but also my estimate is being pretty conservative so for all we know, it could be 95% or more. I'm curious myself.

[artus]

I don't know how classes are set up yet, if it's a thing you just type class classname to select like cogg or whatnot. If it's set up that way then I wonder about something, if you don't mind that is.

Since we have scarce ability slots compared to how many abilities we're going to have, and from how it seems, elemency aptitude is going to take up an ability slot so you can be a mage. If you can just class classname and can class into that, would it at least give abilities a bit of a breather to have elemency aptitude be part of the class instead of an ability on its own? You're not going to be able to select anything else anyway, no? Or does elemency aptitude do anything else other than just be a prereq for elemencer?

[Rias]

Yet more responses, both to things in this thread and things I've seen elsewhere or had reported to me.

Q: When will this all be ready?
A: When it's ready! It'll probably be implemented in waves, like basic combat (and probably some of the focused-combat-style) first, then class specializations a little later. I will say the first wave will be Actually Soon(tm)!

Q: Will we get ability resets?
A: Maybe! Depends on how smooth things go. I will say this: Don't just spend all your points immediately on the first release if the things you're interested in haven't been released yet.

Q: Is this trend of gating things behind ability points, like the multiple added metalworking crafting abilities, going to continue?
A: Yes. I've never been a fan of letting a single character do virtually everything. Pick your character's niche, and leave some available for other characters to fill so everyone can feel important, useful, and unique! I feel this makes for a much healthier community than having a single omnipotent character who can handle virtually any request, and make everyone else feel like they can't find an opportunity to participate or stand out. It's okay to disagree with this, and I'm aware of plenty of games that don't have such restrictions and how fun they can be. It's just not what I want for this game.

Q: What do you mean, Primary Attributes will be an ability point investment?
A: You'll pick your Primary Attribute by taking its corresponding ability, like any other ability. Though now that I think about it ... having it chosen through an NPC trainer does seem kind of weird. Maybe? If that seems too strange, I can always make another method of choosing those specific abilities, but then that's just one more layer of code complication to get through and pushing other things back.

Q: Can a Primary Attribute ability be unlearned?
A: No, and you can only learn one Primary Attribute ability.

Q: Can I learn the abilities to craft what I want, then unlearn those abilities to free up points for other stuff once I've crafted what I need?
A: I very much don't like this kind of thinking, so count on my trying to figure out a way to prevent stuff like this. If crafting those things isn't going to be something your character would normally do, you should ask someone else who -does- want to actually be built around crafting those things to make them for you. Let them feel important and useful for their chosen specialization!

Q: "I am so torn on choices. On one hand, Gudleifr's axe. On the other, Tower Shield."
A: Don't you dare let that axe go to waste!

Q: Will Wyrvardn be restricted to heavy armor classes?
A: Probably not, hence the Duelist being considered as one of their options. Nightblade, Marauder, and possibly Berserker all seem more iffy considering "Honor" is one of the Five Tenets of the Wyrvardn. Yes, it is possible to imagine an honorable example of any of those three, but again, trying to avoid the meta/theorycrafted builds that are exceptions to the norm and stray too far off the beaten paths. I don't want to muddy the intended presentation of these guilds. Whatever they case, they do insist on their members being particuarly capable at combat, hence the requiring of a combat specialization of some kind to join.

Q: What about a certain Wyrvardn NPC that used light armour with a musket?
A: Duelist would definitely suit her!

Q: How will we choose our character's class?
A: It's an ability you learn from a trainer. When you choose it, as part of the confirmation step it will inform you of its exclusivity and list the other classes and guilds you will be locked out of if you move forward.

Q: Will the Elemancy Aptitude ability actually do anything?
A: It's the class choice ability for Elemancer, and all class choices will have some kind of benefits to them, often in the way of some Boring Bonuses. Admittedly, I don't know what this particular one will grant yet. Considering how many elemancy abilities already have extra little side benefits or utilities though, I wouldn't expect this ability on its own to be anything especially remarkable.

Q: Will alchemy be a thing?
A: Probably as part of the Physicker class.

Q: Is this all going to be combat-centric stuff?
A: No, but a lot of the combat-centric stuff is coming first because combat is in a weird place at the moment without any supporting abilities. And for better or worse, combat is a huge part of the game. I'm glad people want to do other stuff besides combat, but the setting lends itself to being pretty combat-heavy. Don't worry, crafting is up near the top of the priority list too!

Q: Will there be music abilities?
A: I think it'd be neat, if we could figure out how to make them feel meaningful. At the very least it'd be nice to somehow prevent the why-not-ism of everyone eventually mastering every musical instrument just because there was no reason not to. Maybe require ability points for learning more than one instrument, or something. (And build higher limits into Bards and Mummers.)

[artus]

Alright so classes by themselves are abilities, and attributes are also abilities, and all use ability points. Is my understanding correct?

I think letting npcs train attributes is fine as long as they're appropriate for the job, like you just went through some intense physical endurance training with a combat trainer, train body building with another trainer, go through dexterity practice wit someone else blah blah bla. It does make sense. Just to make sure though. It's not a requirement, right?

[Rias]

Alright so classes by themselves are abilities, and attributes are also abilities, and all use ability points. Is my understanding correct?

Correct.

[Picking a primary attribute] is not a requirement, right?

Correct, it's completely optional.

[Dorn]

Q: "I am so torn on choices. On one hand, Gudleifr's axe. On the other, Tower Shield."
A: Don't you dare let that axe go to waste!

Guess that answers that really. The axe does have a certain siren's allure to it. Classic Black imagery.

[Zeldryn]

Likewise excited for the future.

Definitely like the way things sound, and look forward to things as they come. Thanks again for elaboration and additional details!