CLOK BBS

So, rather than suggesting anything for the main ability, as it probably shouldn't differ from how other specialization combat abilities work, I wanted to maybe throw some ideas for the part of the display for extra abilities depending on specialization. We all know that some specs do have some concessions for throwing hands like follow up punches, counter punching or historical implementations of fist weapon mastery for Nightblades.

yeah, punching the world wouldn't be the most effective tactic out there. However, a number of guilds do have some implementation of brawling focused weapons, like the claw of Shar, Dwaedn Wyr and whatever other guilds decide to put in some brawling weapons. Enhancing this in some way would be fun for those that trundle down this route, no matter how effective it might be. As well, I was considering options to spice up the current implementation of weapon specializations, since I'm not sure people are finding it too appealing outside of a non-combat spec or using multi-attack weapons. Attaching some extra benefit unique to that weapon type and useable by all one handed and two-handed options would be the easiest way to go. However, brawling is unique in its own right due to having such vastly different options. And well, it's unlikely guardians and duelists would have their own viable form of unarmed combat, being the least drawn to it.


-Nightblade Extra Ability: vital Strikes. Strikes with your hands and brawling weapons only encounter 50% of the target's usual armor soak. Armor chinks more likely with raking and piercing brawling weapons. Considering the nightblade style of combat leaning to short bouts and seeking weaknesses, having something to allow even their normal punches to cause some concern through aiming for vulnerable parts of armor sounded like the easiest flavor option to go for. Also means Nightblades using default bear claws can get in some more damage with the raking blow.

berserker Extra Ability; Savage brawling: bludgeoning strikes and raking strikes scale up with higher base damage with higher fury. Higher fury has a chance to let the blow land as a crushing/piercing attack at 75% of the scaled damage. Fun if you're using default brawling weapons like knuckledusters or your hands, bear claws or a certain druid ability if it comes back. Not sure if the slight damage drop is necessary if the attack changes d type, would depend on how high the extra damage goes. Probably the most terrifying bar brawler in a bare-chested fight aside from maybe a pugilist.

marauder extra Ability: Dirty brawling: Automatic access to a brawling dirty trick of the same name. launches out an attack depending on the current state of the target. A staggering/stunning headbutt if the opponent is unhindered. A backhand blow or shove if the opponent is standing but staggered meant to knock them down and a curb stomp to the body if they're lying down, resulting in varied results depending on where your boot lands. Brawling weapons/unarmed enjoys a 15% damage boost on target below 0 balance, and cheap shot applies a 30% damage boost if utilizing brawling weapons, rather than the usual 15% for roundtimeless usage.

Dreadnaught Extra Ability: improved Gauntlet proficiency: Dreadnaughts who are disarmed and wearing heavily armored gauntlets enjoyed improved chances of blade catching, shorter cooldown on blade catch, do crush damage by default with gauntlets (but at lower damage than a berserker furied up), and can utilize staggering blow unarmed. During the peak for plate armor, most knights did forgo shields and utilize two handed weapons to get past those armored shells. A secondary option for combat was just using your bulk to beat someone with your metal fists, with gauntlets having spikes on them. This ability really just takes the default dreadnaught kit, and just removes the two-handed weapon part, though restricting to just worn gauntlets.

I just wanted to throw this out to get some discussion on alternative ideas for this approach. I do want something like brawling focus and the other weapon specs to just give more than a small reroll bonus and the ability to throw out two punches. hear out some alternatives for waht's listed above, or someone giving some idea for a duelist. Pugilists were intentionally left out as that's a spec on its own about brawling, and access to some form of brawling combos is what they're getting. Along with other abilities to support that spec wise.

What? Rare post from me? Naaah, this is all a dream. A hallucination!

I personally feel like this should wait until *the* brawler class actually gets implemented, but it does give some fun ideas of the Brotherhood getting upgraded variants of stuff thought of here. Although I'm also wondering how much Rias will actually rehash from the original guild for the new version, because one of the marauder abilities you suggested is nearly exactly the same as an old Brotherhood of the Fist ability and the berserker ability to convert to a better damage type is similar in functionality to another one from the old guild (without the defense debuff attached).

I do like the idea of the tradeoff of improved blade catching when disarmed, but also I feel in the same vein that if disarm functionality hasn't been nerfed yet, it's going to get overshadowed into a last resort survival ability when you can no longer knock the weapon out of your opponent's hands and instead disable its use temporarily since I've heard Rias doesn't want disarms to function as before (probably due to the griefing potential and this otherwise enabling people to steal weapons from NPCs and PCs alike).

Although, I gotta say the nightblade one should come with some serious risk for reward for that powerful of a damage increase. Some kind of large debuff to user defenses or equal increase in damage taken by the character using it, because reducing damage reduction from armor by 50% of the value on the piece for *any* brawler weapon in addition to being able to armor chink with otherwise non-armor chink weapons is incredibly strong, easily one of the strongest effects listed here. It practically invalidates all of the downsides of the common brawling weapon damage types. You have full plate? Instead of 70% reduction against bludgeoning, you now have 35%. Instead of 55% reduction against crushing, you have 22.5%. While yeah, it can be argued as situational because not everything has armor... Unless defenses drastically change, most characters of sapient type will be in soft leather at minimum, regardless of guild and class, player character or non-player character.

That aside... Ultimately, I think if any of this gets added, pugilists should have an exclusive upgraded form of it unless they're geared towards no armor still and the ability involves armor. It's kinda their whole thing and it defeats the purpose of the guild if other classes do unarmed or "unarmed" weapons better because they can just take some of the major weaknesses of brawling and more than halve them.

Addendum: For reference, soft leather itself is 50% damage reduction versus bludgeoning and 30% versus crushing.

regarding Nightblades, they already have that built into their class identity with a risk system. Though suspose the armor soak ignoring could be changed to only apply when attacking from ambush, and just keep the chinking chance when past that. Sort of covers the issue of fist weapons not yet having any ambush damage boost values on them like some lighter blades. Though that wouldn't be an issue if said weapons got some once brawling stuff is fleshed out and released.

Also yeah, most of this was just poking at what these specs did and tying some sort of benefit to it while throwing hands. Forgot some of this stuff was in some form a brotherhood ability. Think the idea was sort of to make more brawling options viable for guilds that do employ some and not have any pugilist options in their ranks. Like, I imagine most berserker brawlers would be in dwaedn Wyr, as there was support for this with the bear abilities, and bear claw and boar's charge easily sub in for not having access to stuff like staggering blow from the base spec. but right, waiting on what brawling Weapon focus would help seeing what we're having to work with once it's out. but throwing around ideas while waiting can sometimes be fun.

Oh, I'm not telling you to throw ideas around. In fact, I like some of these ideas a lot, especially for some tradeoff abilities that could definitely see use depending on changes (and I'm still a big Dwaedn Wyr literally tearing an enemy limb from limb with bear claws fan). Just saying that this is probably a best case scenario of "wait and see". I'm sure Rias has interesting things planned already.

THOUGH, I will say, uh. As of right now, the outdated wiki pages might be a good place to scour for ideas based on old abilities to hoard for later. The stuff on the old Brotherhood of the Fist abilities is still on there and accessible under the guild page if you need inspiration.