Deus Ex Magica flintlockina

[Rosalin]

I know you guys have got alot on your plate but, I've been playing with Elemancy for awhile. We have items to zap with but, I find it could be interesting to project a zap more dynamically. Melee weapons have a chance to cast an attack along side whilst channeling yes but, what of firearms? (Or bows for that matter? Honestly I haven't tried this with bows so I can't speak for that)

This could require Compression Patterns (or have differing effects if you're not compressing) though since firearms can do quite a bit of hurt on their own the bonus maybe shouldn't be that high unless you're putting multiple casts upon it but, having an added little elemental damage behind a bullet would make for a cool archetype. (I'm trying to go for this with or without this feature)

It could even require an ability since it would be a pretty big advantage. [Compounded Patterns] even if it only halves the damage/effectiveness I think this could survive on it's own merits and it would open a whole host of cool new ways to experiment with elemancy and weapons. If it doesn't only effect ranged weapons this may be something that could be used to channel elemancy through say a spear. Then we're not relying on RNG to pull off the elemancer fighter feeling.

I do understand this could be straying from the base intentions of Elemancers as 'the wizards' but, Cryomancy already applies this through melee [Ice barbs] which they too could benefit from.

[Alila]

Hi,
Sorry to seem like a jerk, or if this reply feels pointlessly negative, and of course I am only another elemancer and cannot speak to all of the details, but I am not entirely sure this would work very well in terms of balance? Even if esthetically it is a lovely suggestion. Unless the story was misunderstood, a long time ago--before I started playing--there was an issue where brawling with an open channel would allow for a flare on each individual strike. The only mitigating factor then, was the point that flares are not consistent, and it was still so overwhelmingly powerful that brawling and channeling are no longer compatible whatsoever. If they were with a new ability, then it is what amounts to doubling all attacks. That is not so terrible when considered with a spear, but suppose it were dual-wielded daggers or shortswords? Or, if it also applied to ranged weapons, it worked with paired revolvers? A solution might be to limit flares to a specific number, or having some kind of flare combinations system, much like the unarmed system unlocked with brawling focus, but then that seems like far more work? Even if it were made an ability, it seems more apt for a templar, a claw, or an assassin to have access to it, rather than elemancers? Or have it be a general one; there are plenty of guilds besides elemancers which can use flares.
However, the second and arguably more important point revolves around martial versus magic, to employ terms used on chat some days ago: Yes magic has some scary numbers; magic most certainly looks very impressive; but there is also a degree of balance. Magic cannot typically parry, or disarm, or perform any of the fancy melee maneuvers. Furthermore, magic cannot be readied without incurring roundtime, has no focus abilities which help weigh rolls, no multiple attacks, and cannot be further improved through weapon quality. On the other hand, magic can be prepared in any environment, ignores position in a way most ranged weapons cannot, and allows for the most diverse or exotic damages in the game. Still--far and wide--weapons are far more preferable to magic because weapons are typically designed to be weapons, and channeling can be applied offensively but is not especially created for it. This is perfectly okay, and perfectly acceptable to me because magic has far more uses than a sword ever will. Often times, it feels as if magic in combat helps plug those gaps which weapons cannot fill; as examples, consider insubstantial nethrim, or full plate armor, or even various kinds of channeled shields.
At least in my experience, the largest factors contributing towards the balance of melee and magic, from a very dry flavorless mechanics perspective, are the last three, all of which would be mostly or entirely bypassed through the increased efficiency of flare combat--which is already really super powerful under the right circumstances: have you seen a templar fight nethrim with two shortswords and open thaumaturgy channels? It seems that allowing an ability such as this one--that is, an ability incentivizing the learning of melee and combat focused abilities for more magically oriented characters would often make the channeler offensively more effective simply because they receive the benefits of magic and wielding a weapon.
Of course this is not necessarily always true; even discounting the dynamic of armor and channeling, luck is always a substantial factor of the Clok combat system. It is why the general weapon focus abilities are so incredibly powerful, as are any similar roll-weighting abilities. It is also why maybe adding something of this nature is a much much greater increase in combat capability for an elemancer than may be apparent at a glance.
In terms of satisfying solutions, perhaps no new abilities are necessary. The most elegant or immediate answer might be extending damage properties from the new and more obscure metals into ranged ammunition. Only...of course, then the concern is eroding magic's combat niche.
This is practically an essay--sorry! And it is not meant to be discouraging, eve if it might read that way, only an explanation about my personal, non-official perspective on Clok's combat system, and the reasoning behind fearing an increase in the usefulness of flares or allowing more inclusive access to exotic damages like electricity is a razor-fine edge to balance along. To clarify, it is also not a complaint about how combat currently functions. It may even be, and likely is, inaccurate or complete at times. The main point is the asymmetry, whether real or subjectively experienced, between weapons and magic, and how adding things that attempt to have them work together maybe should be the outlying rarity, rather than the norm.
-Alila

[Bryce]

Why magic guns when you can already throw fireballs, molten boulders, and lightning bolts with your mind? I'm guessing the answer is "for style", which I get. But I don't know if magic blazing guns strikes me as the scholarly Elemancer style. I mean, I'd ask them the same thing: Why are you researching a way to make arrows and bullets give a little burst of elemancy, when you can just throw the elemancy yourself to greater effect, without a need for any gear or ammunition, and with much more variety of application?

I also recalled some discussions about ranged flares in the past and did some digging, and found this thread which at one point says:

If the ability to conjure the fire, and infuse it through an item, isn't a challenge or something that needs to be worked on, why not just make Geo/Pyro/Aero/Hydro-mancy an ability instead of a skill?

You're not infusing it through an item, you're adding a brief burst near the location of your hands, which are, because you landed the melee hit, close enough to your target to affect them.

So if this becomes a thing, it can't just be using the concept of melee flares, since those still originate at the wielder's hands, not the weapon itself. So you couldn't just say the bullet or arrow itself flares when it hits, at least based on how flares work now as I understand it.

[Rosalin]

I actually really enjoy that I got such a constructive response here. I added the melee bit because I can't open multiple channels yet. (Of the same kind nor of others) So with how I've been fighting it's looked pretty weak. Giving it a more guranteed boost didn't seem like much of an issue due to that. I enjoy flares more than casting raw. The whole concept of my character is based on flare combat and they happen so infrequently that i didn't consider maybe someone else had them happen ALOT more frequently with alot more power.

fighting with flares in my state is weaker yeah. I genuinely don't really care if casting a three channel fireball could kill in one hit if firing three hot bullets instead would too. I don't want to be some supreme being of power. I only care for the flavour. I had figured i kept balance in mind well enough but, i was rather well put wrong there. So i'm happy Alila came in to drop some knowledge. (well needed for me at that!)

I wanted to more entertain the ranged weapon applications than melee. Cause melee already does it.