Avoidance in Combat

[Kiyaani]

Would it be possible to make a change so that mobs that are *always* aggressive don't start every room in position avoid like PCs do? It makes it especially difficult to close the gap on certain mobs regardless of skill level and I'm not sure what roll is checked to even get in range.

I understand the change for player characters since you don't always want to fight something while just passing through, but it doesn't make a lot of sense for highly aggressive creatures to be stand-offish if they're trying to cave your head in. This is usually only a problem with things that have both melee and ranged attacks like carriers and some nethrim.

I think this could be looked at with PCs as well in some cases. I know the other day someone very highly skilled in combat was trying to playfully "toss" someone with very little skill at all and it took about six attempts to even get within arms length which doesn't make a lot of sense. People who go in for "sparring" sessions have to set themselves to engage manually to even hit each other. I don't know what it is about position avoid, but it seems really wonky at times.

[Rias]

The idea behind Avoid is that you're actively trying to stay away from aggressors, so it's not like the person is just standing there waiting for you to close in to melee. If an enemy is aggressive and uses melee, they'll move to Engage the first chance they get to attack so there shouldn't be any real issue there. If the enemy has ranged attacks, they'll use them from Ranged when possible, and you'll have to close on them again every time they successfully break away. This is all working as intended.

If both parties have the intent to spar in melee, they can easily change their positions accordingly. This may cause a few seconds of inconvenience for people who forget.

Avoid is less an advanced tactical combat maneuver and more "run away shamelessly from any sign of hostile or aggressive activity." This is why skills have little effect on it. If we change that, it's going to change for players as well as creatures, and then PCs will have little chance of avoiding engagements when going through areas with hostiles far above their skill level, and that will remove Avoid's primary purpose - to give people a chance to survive in dangerous areas by attempting to avoid melee completely, despite skill differences.

If you just can't stand the pain it is to have to close on your enemies all the time, consider picking up a ranged attack, or attempt to take them by surprise and attack from hiding.

[Kiyaani]

The only problem I see with that is the way it's set up now you're automatically set in avoid. But I think the more natural state for people to be in is just neutral. People aren't paranoid enough to be constantly looking for threats. If that was the case we should have things like passive stealth checks on entering rooms and people constantly in defensive tactics as well as positions. So I guess maybe what I'm saying is... we should have a position between avoid and engage that people just rest in naturally. Basically, it should still be possible to 'catch someone off guard' even while not hiding because most people don't expect something bad to happen. If you do expect something bad to happen at all times I consider that something you should RP actively by setting yourself to avoid. As it is now, unless you're hiding or ranged, whoever your quarry is will always have a much higher chance to escape than you will of successfully performing an action, even a non-deadly one.

Here's how I see it... you're having a conversation with Bob. You and Bob are clearly not shouting across the room at each other, you're probably within 1-3 feet of each other and talking casually. The conversation turns. You suddenly get this impulse to smack Bob in the face because he's being a jerk. But somehow Bob has magic feet that have carried him clear across the room even though he's standing still and you're stuck chasing his magic feet as he stands there and laughs at you, or he just runs away. Kind of ruins some aspects of RP, at least for me.

Also, can we please make mugs/tankards hurlable - both filled and empty? There's not nearly enough bar fights in this game.

[Laroremas]

Here's how I see it... you're having a conversation with Bob. You and Bob are clearly not shouting across the room at each other, you're probably within 1-3 feet of each other and talking casually. The conversation turns. You suddenly get this impulse to smack Bob in the face because he's being a jerk. But somehow Bob has magic feet that have carried him clear across the room even though he's standing still and you're stuck chasing his magic feet as he stands there and laughs at you, or he just runs away. Kind of ruins some aspects of RP, at least for me.

BOY DOES THIS SURE SOUND FAMILIAR. I still got him, though.

This is a tough issue to approach. On one hand, I think attempting to attack something should put you into position engage automatically. On the other hand, ALL NPCs are in position avoid by default now, which lends way (more often than not) to them getting the first strike (missed or not) if you're trying to fight them without an ambush or something of the sort.

Given the general input lag that CLOK has as well as the hostile demeanor of MOST NPCs in leveling areas, I think it would be worthwhile to have the vast majority of animals in position engage by default.

[Kiyaani]

That's a good point. If you make the opening move - you will miss. Pretty much every time. And that means their retaliation will hit - every time - since you've already pulled yourself into engage. Seems off to me.

*apparently it doesn't pull you into engage if you miss so maybe this isn't how it works, but it's how it feels like it works*