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Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:16 pm
by Rias
Marauder wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 5:54 pm
This is all stuff I'd like Rias to post himself as publicly known OOC "deeds that will get you kicked out" so people can avoid it if they don't want to risk their character.
The problem with this approach is that it's inviting people say "You can't banish me, the specific thing I did wasn't on the official list!" This is the same reason we don't (and Shadgard doesn't) have a list of crimes one can get arrested for. I think we're okay leaving it to a common sense interpretation of "don't do something so egregiously bad that putting you in jail wasn't considered enough of a punishment and the town government itself wants to sever all ties with you." If it happens to a character and it's something that seems like it could be argued, then argue it. Have the character work at getting themselves un-banished. If it was something relatively minor enough to be believably argued against, then it's probably the type of thing that can potentially be worked out.
Marauder wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 5:54 pm
You could be playing an established character and just be a short-tempered individual, like, say, a berserker, and punch people in the face whenever they get too heavy on insults in town. If that eventually gets you banished for being one too many times? That's a problem, because you lose all access to the town for RPing well.
I mean, has the berserker punched so many people in the face so constantly and consistently that it's become recognized by the town government as a serious issue that requires potential banishment, and is the berserker going to keep punching people in the face after a town official warned them that if they kept punching people in the face they'd be kicked out of town?
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:21 pm
by Squeak
Rias wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:16 pm
Marauder wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 5:54 pm
This is all stuff I'd like Rias to post himself as publicly known OOC "deeds that will get you kicked out" so people can avoid it if they don't want to risk their character.
The problem with this approach is that it's inviting people say "You can't banish me, the specific thing I did wasn't on the official list!" This is the same reason we don't (and Shadgard doesn't) have a list of crimes one can get arrested for. I think we're okay leaving it to a common sense interpretation of "don't do something so egregiously bad that putting you in jail wasn't considered enough of a punishment and the town government itself wants to sever all ties with you."
I think a Town Charter in the Hall with a vague "guidelines of conduct" would be beneficial without going so far as to say what is specifically a crime. Make a starting task to go with it. Will it mostly be common sense? Yes. But on the same vein, it will also give those with a "magistrate" bend something to reference when defending a character for crimes committed with a jury of their peers. If someone was so inclined to roleplay such.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:26 pm
by Marauder
Rias wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:16 pm
The problem with this approach is that it's inviting people say "You can't banish me, the specific thing I did wasn't on the official list!" This is the same reason we don't (and Shadgard doesn't) have a list of crimes one can get arrested for. I think we're okay leaving it to a common sense interpretation of "don't do something so egregiously bad that putting you in jail wasn't considered enough of a punishment and the town government itself wants to sever all ties with you." If it happens to a character and it's something that seems like it could be argued, then argue it. Have the character work at getting themselves un-banished. If it was something relatively minor enough to be believably argued against, then it's probably the type of thing that can potentially be worked out.
I mean, has the berserker punched so many people in the face so constantly and consistently that it's become recognized by the town government as a serious issue that requires potential banishment, and is the berserker going to keep punching people in the face after a town official warned them that if they kept punching people in the face they'd be kicked out of town?
The problem with asking that is if the crimes aren't set in stone, then there's no threshold when a warning would be applied and thus they could just be applied after the first time. The problem stands as that it's a
massive OOC and IC punishment to a player character and if the ways to avoid that are veiled, then it's left to interpretation on how much leeway one has to do any sort of RP like this before they get hit with the stasis punishment of being thrown out.
I think a charter would be a good idea as a compromise, some kind of guidelines for people to follow to avoid this kind of immensely weighty punishment that are set in stone and can be read by anybody.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:38 pm
by artus
If banning is a cause for concern, I think having a charter is a good idea, mainly to ease player's anxiety over what could be considered ban worthy, or else they will end up thinking anything they do can be worth a ban. Common sense is good and most people have it. But most people have anxiety as much as common sense.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:40 pm
by Rias
I don't know, I think I'm pretty okay with leaving people sweating over it if they're the type to think, "I wonder how egregiously bad I can behave before it gets me into the worst kind of trouble the town can dish out."
Having a little document somewhere with a few lines detailing that people are expected to exercise common sense when it comes to civil behavior in town and that the sheriff and/or Town Council are the final say in matters of justice is a good idea, though. It's always fascinating when people expect there to be a drawn-out judicial process and jury and lawyers and references to legal documents when it comes to matters of justice in this rag-tag post-apocalyptic survival town.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:46 pm
by Xanthe
I think the main thing is common sense. Say you have someone who punches people in the face. But then they get warned about it. They show remorse and try not to do it as much.
Versus--
someone being warned and them punching the messenger in the face.
You know? It -is- clear cut. Messages are given. Whether one chooses to acknowledge the very clear, 'stop doing that' is really on the character and the player. At least, that's my two cents.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:28 am
by Kiyaani
They're still forbidden as of now, but if Claw as an organization ends up separating from Corvus, has some time to prove it's moved to a more impartial political stance so to speak (hopefully with the help of some of the PCs!), and some members who haven't done anything personally against Shadgard are willing and able to prove themselves trustable, they could worm their way back in.
I feel attacked. ;)
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:18 am
by Gorth
I think it's the Claws that do the attacking. Maybe Rias is secretly a Claw. /gasp
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:35 am
by Vazbol
With the claws, they kind of have some really neat flavor with a lot of their abilities. And best fits the theme nightblades went on within COGG. I'm hoping that one can still remain player joinable to some capacity. more than what can be thought up for harbingers, unless Shadgard suffers a mass gas leak.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:00 pm
by Jaster
Kiyaani wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:28 am
They're still forbidden as of now, but if Claw as an organization ends up separating from Corvus, has some time to prove it's moved to a more impartial political stance so to speak (hopefully with the help of some of the PCs!), and some members who haven't done anything personally against Shadgard are willing and able to prove themselves trustable, they could worm their way back in.
I feel attacked. ;)
I know. Not like you did something "egregious" like blowing up the town gate or something. Wth Rias.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:19 pm
by Vazbol
She only took out one gate? Rookie numbers. They can probably worm their way back in with enough bribing and promises to rebuild the gate the next time it's bashed down by some dude with a wooden club.
Otherwise, with how some of the above posts suggest from Rias, their might be oppertunities to shape up in the guild and regain trust from there with Shadgard. Depends if there's nothing else along with the gate going boom.
But you know. The whole thing depends on if people get on with their claws to get the gears turning on the claws mostly severing ties with Corvus. Might be a small thing to liven up things in the outpost for a little while, before the plot spills out of settlements.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:22 pm
by artus
Or there may be some claws who just choose to personally never give a damn about Shadgard regardless of the stance of the guild. That too can be quite interesting to see. No one says you have to play buddy buddy, and assassins are far from buddy buddy with anyone...except whoever they want their blades to sink in, perhaps.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:23 am
by Dorn
Mostly just wonder what it means for Shar myself.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:29 am
by Dakhal
Jaster wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:00 pm
Kiyaani wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:28 am
They're still forbidden as of now, but if Claw as an organization ends up separating from Corvus, has some time to prove it's moved to a more impartial political stance so to speak (hopefully with the help of some of the PCs!), and some members who haven't done anything personally against Shadgard are willing and able to prove themselves trustable, they could worm their way back in.
I feel attacked. ;)
I know. Not like you did something "egregious" like blowing up the town gate or something. Wth Rias.
All I did was deliver a parcel and that got me banished from Shadgard.. and yet I don't think I will ever be able to earn my way back in. Alas.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:58 am
by Kiyaani
Hey all I did was deliver a barrel. Clearly Shadgard doesn't appreciate mail delivery. Though it would be absolutely hilarious if my character was the one to actually get un-banned from town. *Challenge accepted*
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:17 am
by Jaster
Kiyaani wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:58 am
Hey all I did was deliver a barrel. Clearly Shadgard doesn't appreciate mail delivery. Though it would be absolutely hilarious if my character was the one to actually get un-banned from town. *Challenge accepted*
To be fair, you kept your pants on. Hardly a banishable offense when you're not pantsless. Definitely a valid argument.
I can't wait to take you for a nice evening out at the Hearth & Home.
If you (or Bryce) can spot me the riln, of course.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:30 pm
by Alexander
Kiyaani wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:58 am
Hey all I did was deliver a barrel. Clearly Shadgard doesn't appreciate mail delivery.
The hazards of mail delivery appear to be universal, for I was assaulted by assassins and demons for delivering a letter to Corvus. I was similarly assaulted when picking up some friends from Corvus to bring them back home.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:42 pm
by Vazbol
To be fair, all I did was drop off my 26 kids at the Church's Daycare. I'm not entirely sure why the militia began shooting. I swear that was self defense for me and my hungry kids.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:30 pm
by Slightbeam
Good call. Condensing the playerbase means staff interactions involve everyone, content isn't being split and leaving both sides unhappy about missing out, and what is made will be higher quality.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:41 pm
by Slightbeam
Sidenote: we need to abduct the skeletal gardener if the Claw gets a neutral base / we make one. They are an INTEGRAL PART of staff morale and must be maintained despite the potential budget cuts and political schism.
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:12 pm
by Slaidh
That's it, I'm moving to Vantfjall!
Re: On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 7:34 pm
by Kiyaani
Slaidh!!! Are you playing again? We'll have to start a canim who don't care about Corvus shenanigans faction ;)