Weapon Breakage and Repair

Landion · Post by **Landion** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:23 pm

First, this system is not yet live.

This is intended to give people a little forewarning before we roll these changes live.

Most of you have noticed that updates have been made lately, allowing you to see the current status of your weapons and armor via the EXAMINE command, also that weapons have become repairable at blacksmith shops, however they do not currently break.

Players can now repair leather and metal armor and weapons at a leathercrafters table, or on an anvil.

Rias also recently changed the NPC repair system to have a hold time of 24 hours.

These updates have been leading up to our new Breakage system that we have been testing extensively over the last few months.

So, here's how things will work, once live:

- There will be 2 types of breaks. Wear and Tear and Catastrophic failure

- Weapons will degrade slowly with use, based on chance, and their strength and durability ratings.

- Weaker material will degrade faster when they come in contact with a stronger material, via parry, block, or a hit to armor.

- Natural damage resistance which creatures have also will contribute to wear and tear.

- The lower your weapon's current status, the higher the chance for a catastrophic break. (In the months we've tested this, we've seen very few of these, which is intended.)

- If you allow your weapon to degrade completely, it will suffer a break due to wear and tear, and will need to be repaired before it can be used again.

- Weapons and armor can be repaired preemptively to prevent these breaks, and to lower the risk of a catastrophic break.

- Weapons that are repaired often, have a lower chance of degrading in quality in strength.

- Weapons that are repaired either when broken, or when severely damaged have a higher chance to have lower strength and durability afterward.

- Player created weapons and armor will have a chance to lose quality, if repaired by someone other than a master blacksmith or master leatherworker. This is designed to increase the value of our Traders and their skills.

- Repairing an item can be done by anyone, but for someone with very little to no skill, it could be very time consuming and can lower the integrity of the weapon or armor piece.

- Wooden weapons, such as staves and bows will be able to be repaired via druidry! I suspect Rithiel and Rias will want to release a few guild skills based on this in the future.

- NPC repair will still be available, but will have a much higher chance to lower your weapon's integrity, and now have a 24 hour hold time.

- The system is designed to allow you to maintain your weapons and armor, allowing them to last a great deal of time if maintained well, but eventually lower the strength and durability so that the chance of a catastrophic break is much higher and will eventually occur.

This system is not yet live as we are still polishing it a bit and testing, but it's what we should see live within the coming weeks.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:23 pm

Okay. The druidry thing sounds AMAZING.

Everything sounds really cool too, though! I've been looking forward to this. Though, a question. Does all of the Repair/Breakage stuff apply to things like Wands and Staves for the Elemancers, since those are magical in nature?

Post by **Rias** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:05 pm

Staves, yes. They'll still take damage when striking or being struck - having magical properties would make them weaker integrity-wise, if anything.

Wands, no, since you're not physically striking or parrying with it. They may have some unique form of degrade as they're used at some point, but it wouldn't fit into this update.

In either case, wooden items with magical properties probably wouldn't be repairable via druidry, unless the druid have personal knowledge of the item's properties and know how to repair it and keep its properties intact. A druid attempting to repair an elemancer staff or wand would likely ruin it, since their build and design is so important to the patterns stored within them. In fact, they should probably stop working magic-wise once they've taken a certain amount of damage.

Tian · Post by **Tian** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:10 pm

What about Firearms?

Xzean · Post by **Xzean** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:56 pm

Also who will be able to repair the weirder materials, such as my bone staff?

Post by **Rias** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:50 pm

[quote=Tian]What about Firearms?[/quote]

Same as wands. You don't parry or make melee strikes with a firearm, so they won't be effected by these mechanics.

[quote=Xzean]Also who will be able to repair the weirder materials, such as my bone staff?[/quote]

Good question. You'll probably end up just needing to get a new one.

Makkah · Post by **Makkah** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:46 pm

[quote=Xzean]Also who will be able to repair the weirder materials, such as my bone staff?[/quote]

Gonna be the bigger man here and bow out of making a raunchy joke.

Lae · Post by **Lae** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:58 am

You made me snort lemonade. That hurts, you know.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:49 am

Citromancy is a bit of a PITA sometimes!

Xzean · Post by **Xzean** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:45 pm

[quote=Rias][quote=Tian]What about Firearms?[/quote]

Same as wands. You don't parry or make melee strikes with a firearm, so they won't be effected by these mechanics.

[quote=Xzean]Also who will be able to repair the weirder materials, such as my bone staff?[/quote]

Good question. You'll probably end up just needing to get a new one.[/quote]

That isn't nice! /sob /wrists /linkinpark /didn'tmakearaunchyjoke

Skjotur · Post by **Skjotur** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:34 am

What is the syntax for repairing leather armor? When I try to repair it in the tanner it thinks I'm asking the NPC to do it. If I put the armor on the worktable first, it says I need to be holding it in hand.

Landion · Post by **Landion** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:40 pm

Edit: Rithiel already fixored this.

Makkah · Post by **Makkah** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:44 pm

Any update on how far off this is from going live?

Landion · Post by **Landion** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:17 pm

Player repair mechanics still need some work before this goes live, right now there's a slew of bugs I need to go through and work out, plus I need to change armor breakage a bit still and make some forging updates still. A lot of little stuff that adds up to be a big project.

Also we need to wrap up a few loose ends, like how we're going to handle leather based weapons, like whips.

So... I don't have a big ETA or deadline on this right now.

I could technically turn it live at any time and we would survive, I just have been putting it off so that the repair system is working properly first.

Skjotur · Post by **Skjotur** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:25 pm

Since armor breakage has been in since as long as I can remember, is there any guess about when druidry repair will work for wooden armor? Mainly concerned because as far as I know my mask isn't commonly available for purchase or trade anywhere, so I can't just buy a new one when this one gets beat up. Want to decide if I should keep it safe for now or go ahead and use it (if druidry repair is close).

Edit: When I ready druidry and try REPAIR MASK while holding it, nothing at all happens (no error message or anything)

Acarin · Post by **Acarin** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:56 pm

So I've been getting armor degradation almost every time I repair. I understand the point of this, but if I'm capable of making masterful and exquisite pieces fairly regularly, I don't see why I would be knocking a masterful piece down to an average after a couple of repairs, nor in reality at all.

I understand trying to make master services more desirable, but I honestly don't think this is the way. Basically this says either wait 24 hours (never checked this time but the previous post said it was) for armor repair or ruin the integrity of your item.

It makes player repairing less desirable and useful (I certainly won't be using it anymore), and causes a pretty big penalty to those of us who are not traders considering the difficulty in making master pieces if not a trader. This is particularly bothersome if using difficult to acquire materials.

That being said, I have 2 suggestions:
1) Allow traders to repair the integrity of the item to its original after less skilled repairs degrade it and reduce the rate of degradation. This would be a benefit to traders and provide them with a valuable ability, but at the same time not require players to seek out a master leatherworking/forging trader every time their armor degrades a bit.
2) Make masterful quality items not degrade in integrity after repairs as an additional benefit to making a masterful item. Other qualities would still degrade after repairs.

I really do understand the need to give traders some additional benefits, but this consistent degradation is frustrating considering the efforts that go into making a masterful (or even exquisite if from a rare material) set of armor. I'm starting to feel like trying to get good quality armor isn't worth it at all, as it won't be good quality for long.

I know I will likely be told to find a trader whenever I need repairs if I don't like this, but I really don't think this is the answer. If I spend a ton of time making masterful stuff, I should be able to keep my masterful stuff as masterful, not quickly degrade them to average.

Skjotur · Post by **Skjotur** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:08 pm

For what it's worth I like that items degrade. It makes sense and it means crafters will be more valued because people will occasionally have to replace their stuff instead of just buying it once and then forgetting the crafter. It also means there's a point to my crafting skill even after I've made myself a nice set of armor. I'm going to have to replace it eventually, and as a benefit of being a crafter I can do that myself.

Acarin · Post by **Acarin** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:37 pm

It just makes me want to not wear armor or get everything done by NPCs and wait the 24 hours. It doesn't make me want to continue to leathercrafting. If I could repair myself without a high chance of degradation or could later have a trader fix the change, I would be more inclined to do it.

It's probably better for forged armors as well since they don't require repairs as often. For leather though, after a hunt or two something will likely need repairs. This means I am likely to bring an entire masterful set to average in less than 24 in-game hours. Then I will have to spend an equivalent amount of time trying to craft another masterful set (assuming I can even acquire enough materials in that time). It took me over a week of hunting with spearhead to get enough scales to make an exquisite/masterful set of drakolin armor and only a day of serious hunting for it to end up as average (before I noticed this was implemented).

It's great that you're enjoying it. I find it extremely frustrating and think that it kind of ruins crafting. There's enough benefit for masterworkers in their rate of making masterful items and having unique patterns. In my opinion, this just ruins leatherworking/forging for those of us that spend the large amount of additional time needed to create items at the quality that masterworkers can more easily produce.

It's one thing to give traders an advantage. It's another thing to heavily hinder the craft (and make it considerably less desirable) for everyone else.

When I saw the plan, I was originally a little concerned but figured I'd give it a chance before I commented. I also assumed that quality degradations would not be as ridiculously frequent as they are. That being said, I'm starting to think leather armor isn't even worth wearing anymore.

EDIT: I also just noticed that NPC repair has a higher chance to lower integrity than player repair even though it takes 24 hours. Why? Are the leatherworkers not masters in their craft? Basically, there's no way to maintain the integrity of our items short of tracking down a player that may or may not exist?

Skjotur · Post by **Skjotur** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:02 am

I just make myself new armor instead of repairing since it seems like repairing something takes longer than making a new piece. I'm overflowing with pelts, I might as well use them. I'll test how quickly my armor degrades from repair because if you're a really high skill leathercrafter and your quality is going from superior to average in a single day then I agree that's a problem. I don't care if you're not a trader, what really matters here is that a person has skill. Not being a trader shouldn't mean we automatically suck at repairing things regardless of skill.

I'll do some testing and post my results. Time to practice with my handaxe instead of the bow so my armor can get battered up good.

Jaren · Post by **Jaren** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:32 am

I'll add my two cents to this one too.

I think that the quality degrade system needs some tweaking. It seems un-fair for someone to take the time to grind out a masterful piece of equipment only to find that it will degrade as you repair it. It's like saying even though you spent days or weeks gaining the skills necessary to make a masterful piece, you aren't a 'real' blacksmith or a 'real' leathersmith. SORRY! You will need to wait till a 'real' crafter logs on and THEN you can have it properly repaired. What's that? No traders have logged in for a while? Well, too bad.

Traders already have unique equipment types, special stalls and their own mines, farming areas, unique tools.. the list goes on. I think they have more than enough.

Ardor · Post by **Ardor** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:28 am

I haven't really repaired all that much but none of the things I did repair degraded in quality. Maybe that is a Trader perk? I have the master ability associated with the things I did repair.

Jaster · Post by **Jaster** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:36 am

Anytime I have tried to get my armor repaired by a player (like once) it wouldn't work due to a bug. And I'm not usually around enough to organize having it repaired anyway. So I just resort to using the NPC for the sake of convenience.

Acarin · Post by **Acarin** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:34 am

[quote=Ardor]I haven't really repaired all that much but none of the things I did repair degraded in quality. Maybe that is a Trader perk? I have the master ability associated with the things I did repair.[/quote]

Yes Ardor, this is a trader perk. If you have the master ability it won't degrade. For everyone else it will.

Skjotur · Post by **Skjotur** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:52 am

Traders should have a chance for quality degrade as well, I don't care what their abilities are. Leatherworking Master takes a whopping 200 leatherwork skill for traders to get. I have more than that. But for some reason the trader's repair work is completely flawless while I'm not. What if I have 1000 skill? I'm still going to be worse than a trader with 200 skill, because he's for some reason considered a "master" while I'm not.

I don't mind traders getting some abilities that are like tricks of the trade, or something, and give them some bonuses. But to make them infallable regardless of skill level and better at repairs than people who could have twice, five times, ten times, fity times, more skill than them, I think that's just messed up.

Acarin · Post by **Acarin** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:05 am

Additionally, self-repair of player crafted items is being penalized while store bought items can't degrade in quality. Why would I want to craft my own? It will end up the same as a store bought (which does not degrade) after a few repairs anyways.

I see why repairs are necessary, but I don't see why fixing a few scuffs is changing the integrity of the item. As Skjotur stated, I don't see why traders should be able to do it better.

I think that if I am going to end up with average or worse items after a few repairs, then I might as well not use player crafted items and just go with store boughts.