PK toggle
I entirely agree that tormenting any player just for the sake of one's own personal entertainment is uncalled for as outlined in policy 2. That being said, there are rp reasons why one may attack a new character which I've been told are legitimate. I wholeheartedly believe that entirely new characters should have some transient protection unless they perform a hostile action.
If you decide to institute this though, let me suggest that this only apply to ACTUALLY new players and not people who are more familiar with the rules and policies of the game.
If you decide to institute this though, let me suggest that this only apply to ACTUALLY new players and not people who are more familiar with the rules and policies of the game.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
EDIT: Although evelyn's previous post stating that I only pick on weak players (and also stating that I never attack established players) has now been removed after this posting, I will leave this up in case anyone else feels that I am treating them unfairly through IC actions.
Lets see: I've certainly attacked Alexander, Gad, and Lae who are considerably older. I don't really discriminate although if I can't kill a character I will generally run off and wait for a more opportune time to attack due to the risks involved. I think this is a rational choice for my character. He doesn't want to fight the most challenging foes fair and square like a dwaedn. That's how you rp your character. There are rp reasons why I don't attack Lae anymore as well as some other IC reasons why I generally don't attack Gad on sight unless he is in my way which is probably why you don't think I pick on older characters as well. Is there anyone I'm missing who I should be attacking? If so, let me know and should the opportunity arise (i.e. I find out they are monk or templar IC) I will be happy to attack them as well.
Evelyn, you may not agree with my rp but it's my choice how to play Acarin. I have no intention of griefing any of you. There is no need for you to make this personal. I am actually agreeing with you that there should be a PK toggle but within appropriate bounds.
I take it from the rapid post that one of the two characters involved tonight was one of your alts? If so, you likely would have known that I would have attacked a templar that announced themself as a templar on sight. As a player I apologize for the killing, but from an rp standpoint I will continue to act in the same way in such situations unless there is some compelling ic reason not to.
Lets see: I've certainly attacked Alexander, Gad, and Lae who are considerably older. I don't really discriminate although if I can't kill a character I will generally run off and wait for a more opportune time to attack due to the risks involved. I think this is a rational choice for my character. He doesn't want to fight the most challenging foes fair and square like a dwaedn. That's how you rp your character. There are rp reasons why I don't attack Lae anymore as well as some other IC reasons why I generally don't attack Gad on sight unless he is in my way which is probably why you don't think I pick on older characters as well. Is there anyone I'm missing who I should be attacking? If so, let me know and should the opportunity arise (i.e. I find out they are monk or templar IC) I will be happy to attack them as well.
Evelyn, you may not agree with my rp but it's my choice how to play Acarin. I have no intention of griefing any of you. There is no need for you to make this personal. I am actually agreeing with you that there should be a PK toggle but within appropriate bounds.
I take it from the rapid post that one of the two characters involved tonight was one of your alts? If so, you likely would have known that I would have attacked a templar that announced themself as a templar on sight. As a player I apologize for the killing, but from an rp standpoint I will continue to act in the same way in such situations unless there is some compelling ic reason not to.
Last edited by Acarin on Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
Note: This isn't me arguing against anyone in specfic. (I haven't even read the whole thread.) It just occured to me while reading an earlier post.
It occurs to me that Corvus might prefer his minions- I mean loyal subjects not kill new immigrants. For purely utilitarian purposes, of course. Being killed by such would make them less likely to join Corvus outpost.
It occurs to me that Corvus might prefer his minions- I mean loyal subjects not kill new immigrants. For purely utilitarian purposes, of course. Being killed by such would make them less likely to join Corvus outpost.
-> put meat in pan
You can't put anything inside the pants.
You can't put anything inside the pants.
I will chime in to say that the events of last night did not violate POLICY 2 for several reasons.
1 - The victim made it clear they were a church member.
2 - It is IC for Acarin to attack a church member, based on his history with them.
3 - Acarin didn't know (to my knowledge) who the player was behind this character until after the fact. I know I didn't. So there wasn't, (in my opinion) any OOC motives behind the attack, and it certainly wouldn't cross the line into griefing.
4 - Acarin typically doesn't kill a new(er) players. And when he does it rarely is more than once, or is for a valid reason. I've watched him Role-Play with many a new player without just attacking them first or at all.
And yes, hell just froze over, pigs flew, and I hear a fat lady singing, I defended Acarin.
Even so, please don't think I'm pointing fingers elsewhere.
All in all, we as GMs do keep a close eye on things like this and make sure people aren't being griefed. If you feel you are being griefed, you are always free to REPORT and discuss the issue with a GM. Lashing out in an OOC manner in return isn't the best way to get things accomplished if you feel POLICY 2 is being violated.
It is important to recognize that CvC IS allowed and IS a part of the game. I understand it is easy to be competative and get hot headed over situations such as this, especially when you don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with another player OOC or IC. That said, it is important that both sides of a conflict look at ways they can improve their own interactions so that the competition remains healthy, appropriate and IC.
As far as PvP toggle, personally I would be against it. Why? In my opinion it would be much too easy to be abused in several different ways and would be even more difficult to monitor than what we already have in place via POLICY 2. In the end I see it being more harmful than helpful to the issue it would be meant to assist with.
1 - The victim made it clear they were a church member.
2 - It is IC for Acarin to attack a church member, based on his history with them.
3 - Acarin didn't know (to my knowledge) who the player was behind this character until after the fact. I know I didn't. So there wasn't, (in my opinion) any OOC motives behind the attack, and it certainly wouldn't cross the line into griefing.
4 - Acarin typically doesn't kill a new(er) players. And when he does it rarely is more than once, or is for a valid reason. I've watched him Role-Play with many a new player without just attacking them first or at all.
And yes, hell just froze over, pigs flew, and I hear a fat lady singing, I defended Acarin.
Even so, please don't think I'm pointing fingers elsewhere.
All in all, we as GMs do keep a close eye on things like this and make sure people aren't being griefed. If you feel you are being griefed, you are always free to REPORT and discuss the issue with a GM. Lashing out in an OOC manner in return isn't the best way to get things accomplished if you feel POLICY 2 is being violated.
It is important to recognize that CvC IS allowed and IS a part of the game. I understand it is easy to be competative and get hot headed over situations such as this, especially when you don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with another player OOC or IC. That said, it is important that both sides of a conflict look at ways they can improve their own interactions so that the competition remains healthy, appropriate and IC.
As far as PvP toggle, personally I would be against it. Why? In my opinion it would be much too easy to be abused in several different ways and would be even more difficult to monitor than what we already have in place via POLICY 2. In the end I see it being more harmful than helpful to the issue it would be meant to assist with.
No longer GMing for CLOK.
In aftermath of things and having a chance to look back I realize that although at the time I felt it was griefy, it wasn't as bad as I made it out to be. I am sorry for my behavior on the OOC channel. No excuses for that, I was out of order.
I do feel that Acarin targets me and my alts, and it makes me sad. I play this game to have fun and enjoy my self, I'm a passionate person and can get emotion about things I love. And I love Clok.
I kinda still would like to see a ten or so hour newbie protection being put in, even if it comes off if said newbie attacks or acts hostiles to another PC.
I'm glad things didn't get too far and stuff, I really do enjoy and love playing this game.
Sorry again, Eve.
I do feel that Acarin targets me and my alts, and it makes me sad. I play this game to have fun and enjoy my self, I'm a passionate person and can get emotion about things I love. And I love Clok.
I kinda still would like to see a ten or so hour newbie protection being put in, even if it comes off if said newbie attacks or acts hostiles to another PC.
I'm glad things didn't get too far and stuff, I really do enjoy and love playing this game.
Sorry again, Eve.
The Rig-Jarl Bjorn gives you a bone-crushing bearhug.
As a new player I would like to say that a PK toggle, in my opinion, is worthless. There shouldn't be a reason for one when you are seeking an immersive game atmosphere. I had some great RP with Acarin my very first night and loved the threat that was hanging over my head if I said or did the wrong thing. Honestly it really comes down to RP and I know from experience in other games as well that some new players attempt to use their new status as a way to be a jerk without any recourse. I know that I met a few that were just plain rude to my character and I couldn't just turn around and burn their heads off even though I should have if I followed my character's RP.
Last edited by Sionyl on Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"They have made a travesty of a great mystery, and in so doing even they have forgotten the truth. All who live possess eternal life, and few would trade it for an immortal body, if they truly understood what it is to be alive."
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KianTheArcher
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I'm not sure why it would be 'worthless', considering it would be optional and last for 5-10 hours of gameplay before swapping completely. To say that something comes down purely to roleplay is a bit of a fallacy, seeing as this is (in the end) a game and functionality should have a say in it.
The reason this was brought up a second time, Sionyl, was because I was playing a Templar, and was attacked by Acarin for being a Templar, even though my skills were something like less than 50 across the board. Something I don't necessarily have a problem with. The problem I have with it was that the roleplay leading up to the attack was something along the lines of...
Acarin: "You dress like a Templar. Are you a Templar?"
Me: "Yes."
Acarin attacks.
Considering my character wasn't wearing Templar specific clothing (He was wearing, as I recall, copper chain and great helm, with a copper shield) at that time, it was a pretty flimsy excuse for attacking.
As I said, I don't personally have a problem with it having occurred. He did what he says he feels was "In Character" to do. But I've played more than my share of evil on my old MUD and regardless of what people would ever say about how much of a bastard I am OOCly (based on my IC actions), and how unfun I was to play with, I seldom attacked people upon first meeting them for ANY reason short of them blatantly insulting my characters for no good or discernible reason. Even if I knew on an OOC level who played the character, and disliked them.
Had I actually been a new player when Acarin attacked me, I probably wouldn't have stayed around to be frank. Especially considering one has to wait for an IC interview to actually join the Templar Guild, and this wait can last a few days (granted, I understand why the interview process is there).
The reason this was brought up a second time, Sionyl, was because I was playing a Templar, and was attacked by Acarin for being a Templar, even though my skills were something like less than 50 across the board. Something I don't necessarily have a problem with. The problem I have with it was that the roleplay leading up to the attack was something along the lines of...
Acarin: "You dress like a Templar. Are you a Templar?"
Me: "Yes."
Acarin attacks.
Considering my character wasn't wearing Templar specific clothing (He was wearing, as I recall, copper chain and great helm, with a copper shield) at that time, it was a pretty flimsy excuse for attacking.
As I said, I don't personally have a problem with it having occurred. He did what he says he feels was "In Character" to do. But I've played more than my share of evil on my old MUD and regardless of what people would ever say about how much of a bastard I am OOCly (based on my IC actions), and how unfun I was to play with, I seldom attacked people upon first meeting them for ANY reason short of them blatantly insulting my characters for no good or discernible reason. Even if I knew on an OOC level who played the character, and disliked them.
Had I actually been a new player when Acarin attacked me, I probably wouldn't have stayed around to be frank. Especially considering one has to wait for an IC interview to actually join the Templar Guild, and this wait can last a few days (granted, I understand why the interview process is there).
Morgoth, I cried
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate
Thanks Sionyl! Always glad to hear that someone enjoyed my rp!
First, I ask everyone I first meet if they are associated with the church. Acarin accuses many people of being templar or monks when he first meets them regardless of what they are wearing and assumes they are church friendly until they say otherwise.
You were also wearing heavy armor and at least one item that seemed to have been bought from the templar shop even though it may have not been. When asked you introduced yourself as "Coran the templar". I think that is enough. Assassins are usually not the type to sit around and share niceties with someone they intend to kill.
Knowing that I would attack you on sight after that admission, since you really are familiar with my tendency to attack enemies, you shouldn't be suprised.
The GMs have already stated their stance on this Kian, and I was IC justified in attacking you. Your rp tendencies do not need to be mine. This type of behavior should be expected in an rp environment and if someone reacts as strongly as you and evelyn did and they choose to quit, as much as I hate to say it, I don't think it is a major loss.
I do, however, find the insults hurled out by yourself and evelyn's player when it occured to be somewhat detrimental in that it sets a precedence for other players to do the same and is really just inappropriate. Lets be clear, since you are not a new player you knew who I was and I feel you made this into personal attack on me. There have been other new players (one recently that I can think of) that I have attacked shortly after finding out their affiliation and not one has reacted even close to the degree that you, an established player reacted.
I retract my statement that I agree with a PK toggle. In light of what I am hearing, it seems it may open the gates for further abusive behaviors by established players.
First, I ask everyone I first meet if they are associated with the church. Acarin accuses many people of being templar or monks when he first meets them regardless of what they are wearing and assumes they are church friendly until they say otherwise.
You were also wearing heavy armor and at least one item that seemed to have been bought from the templar shop even though it may have not been. When asked you introduced yourself as "Coran the templar". I think that is enough. Assassins are usually not the type to sit around and share niceties with someone they intend to kill.
Knowing that I would attack you on sight after that admission, since you really are familiar with my tendency to attack enemies, you shouldn't be suprised.
The GMs have already stated their stance on this Kian, and I was IC justified in attacking you. Your rp tendencies do not need to be mine. This type of behavior should be expected in an rp environment and if someone reacts as strongly as you and evelyn did and they choose to quit, as much as I hate to say it, I don't think it is a major loss.
I do, however, find the insults hurled out by yourself and evelyn's player when it occured to be somewhat detrimental in that it sets a precedence for other players to do the same and is really just inappropriate. Lets be clear, since you are not a new player you knew who I was and I feel you made this into personal attack on me. There have been other new players (one recently that I can think of) that I have attacked shortly after finding out their affiliation and not one has reacted even close to the degree that you, an established player reacted.
I retract my statement that I agree with a PK toggle. In light of what I am hearing, it seems it may open the gates for further abusive behaviors by established players.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
