On Alternative Factions, CvC, and Evil Characters

[Rias]

This is all stuff I'd like Rias to post himself as publicly known OOC "deeds that will get you kicked out" so people can avoid it if they don't want to risk their character.

The problem with this approach is that it's inviting people say "You can't banish me, the specific thing I did wasn't on the official list!" This is the same reason we don't (and Shadgard doesn't) have a list of crimes one can get arrested for. I think we're okay leaving it to a common sense interpretation of "don't do something so egregiously bad that putting you in jail wasn't considered enough of a punishment and the town government itself wants to sever all ties with you." If it happens to a character and it's something that seems like it could be argued, then argue it. Have the character work at getting themselves un-banished. If it was something relatively minor enough to be believably argued against, then it's probably the type of thing that can potentially be worked out.

You could be playing an established character and just be a short-tempered individual, like, say, a berserker, and punch people in the face whenever they get too heavy on insults in town. If that eventually gets you banished for being one too many times? That's a problem, because you lose all access to the town for RPing well.

I mean, has the berserker punched so many people in the face so constantly and consistently that it's become recognized by the town government as a serious issue that requires potential banishment, and is the berserker going to keep punching people in the face after a town official warned them that if they kept punching people in the face they'd be kicked out of town?

[Squeak]

This is all stuff I'd like Rias to post himself as publicly known OOC "deeds that will get you kicked out" so people can avoid it if they don't want to risk their character.

The problem with this approach is that it's inviting people say "You can't banish me, the specific thing I did wasn't on the official list!" This is the same reason we don't (and Shadgard doesn't) have a list of crimes one can get arrested for. I think we're okay leaving it to a common sense interpretation of "don't do something so egregiously bad that putting you in jail wasn't considered enough of a punishment and the town government itself wants to sever all ties with you."

I think a Town Charter in the Hall with a vague "guidelines of conduct" would be beneficial without going so far as to say what is specifically a crime. Make a starting task to go with it. Will it mostly be common sense? Yes. But on the same vein, it will also give those with a "magistrate" bend something to reference when defending a character for crimes committed with a jury of their peers. If someone was so inclined to roleplay such.

[Marauder]

The problem with this approach is that it's inviting people say "You can't banish me, the specific thing I did wasn't on the official list!" This is the same reason we don't (and Shadgard doesn't) have a list of crimes one can get arrested for. I think we're okay leaving it to a common sense interpretation of "don't do something so egregiously bad that putting you in jail wasn't considered enough of a punishment and the town government itself wants to sever all ties with you." If it happens to a character and it's something that seems like it could be argued, then argue it. Have the character work at getting themselves un-banished. If it was something relatively minor enough to be believably argued against, then it's probably the type of thing that can potentially be worked out.

I mean, has the berserker punched so many people in the face so constantly and consistently that it's become recognized by the town government as a serious issue that requires potential banishment, and is the berserker going to keep punching people in the face after a town official warned them that if they kept punching people in the face they'd be kicked out of town?

The problem with asking that is if the crimes aren't set in stone, then there's no threshold when a warning would be applied and thus they could just be applied after the first time. The problem stands as that it's a massive OOC and IC punishment to a player character and if the ways to avoid that are veiled, then it's left to interpretation on how much leeway one has to do any sort of RP like this before they get hit with the stasis punishment of being thrown out.

I think a charter would be a good idea as a compromise, some kind of guidelines for people to follow to avoid this kind of immensely weighty punishment that are set in stone and can be read by anybody.

[artus]

If banning is a cause for concern, I think having a charter is a good idea, mainly to ease player's anxiety over what could be considered ban worthy, or else they will end up thinking anything they do can be worth a ban. Common sense is good and most people have it. But most people have anxiety as much as common sense.

[Rias]

I don't know, I think I'm pretty okay with leaving people sweating over it if they're the type to think, "I wonder how egregiously bad I can behave before it gets me into the worst kind of trouble the town can dish out."

Having a little document somewhere with a few lines detailing that people are expected to exercise common sense when it comes to civil behavior in town and that the sheriff and/or Town Council are the final say in matters of justice is a good idea, though. It's always fascinating when people expect there to be a drawn-out judicial process and jury and lawyers and references to legal documents when it comes to matters of justice in this rag-tag post-apocalyptic survival town.

[Xanthe]

I think the main thing is common sense. Say you have someone who punches people in the face. But then they get warned about it. They show remorse and try not to do it as much.

Versus--
someone being warned and them punching the messenger in the face.

You know? It -is- clear cut. Messages are given. Whether one chooses to acknowledge the very clear, 'stop doing that' is really on the character and the player. At least, that's my two cents.

[Kiyaani]

They're still forbidden as of now, but if Claw as an organization ends up separating from Corvus, has some time to prove it's moved to a more impartial political stance so to speak (hopefully with the help of some of the PCs!), and some members who haven't done anything personally against Shadgard are willing and able to prove themselves trustable, they could worm their way back in.

I feel attacked. ;)

[Gorth]

I think it's the Claws that do the attacking. Maybe Rias is secretly a Claw. /gasp

[Vazbol]

With the claws, they kind of have some really neat flavor with a lot of their abilities. And best fits the theme nightblades went on within COGG. I'm hoping that one can still remain player joinable to some capacity. more than what can be thought up for harbingers, unless Shadgard suffers a mass gas leak.

[Jaster]

They're still forbidden as of now, but if Claw as an organization ends up separating from Corvus, has some time to prove it's moved to a more impartial political stance so to speak (hopefully with the help of some of the PCs!), and some members who haven't done anything personally against Shadgard are willing and able to prove themselves trustable, they could worm their way back in.

I feel attacked. ;)

I know. Not like you did something "egregious" like blowing up the town gate or something. Wth Rias.

[Vazbol]

She only took out one gate? Rookie numbers. They can probably worm their way back in with enough bribing and promises to rebuild the gate the next time it's bashed down by some dude with a wooden club.

Otherwise, with how some of the above posts suggest from Rias, their might be oppertunities to shape up in the guild and regain trust from there with Shadgard. Depends if there's nothing else along with the gate going boom.

But you know. The whole thing depends on if people get on with their claws to get the gears turning on the claws mostly severing ties with Corvus. Might be a small thing to liven up things in the outpost for a little while, before the plot spills out of settlements.

[artus]

Or there may be some claws who just choose to personally never give a damn about Shadgard regardless of the stance of the guild. That too can be quite interesting to see. No one says you have to play buddy buddy, and assassins are far from buddy buddy with anyone...except whoever they want their blades to sink in, perhaps.

[Dorn]

Mostly just wonder what it means for Shar myself.

[Dakhal]

They're still forbidden as of now, but if Claw as an organization ends up separating from Corvus, has some time to prove it's moved to a more impartial political stance so to speak (hopefully with the help of some of the PCs!), and some members who haven't done anything personally against Shadgard are willing and able to prove themselves trustable, they could worm their way back in.

I feel attacked. ;)

I know. Not like you did something "egregious" like blowing up the town gate or something. Wth Rias.

All I did was deliver a parcel and that got me banished from Shadgard.. and yet I don't think I will ever be able to earn my way back in. Alas.

[Kiyaani]

Hey all I did was deliver a barrel. Clearly Shadgard doesn't appreciate mail delivery. Though it would be absolutely hilarious if my character was the one to actually get un-banned from town. *Challenge accepted*

[Jaster]

Hey all I did was deliver a barrel. Clearly Shadgard doesn't appreciate mail delivery. Though it would be absolutely hilarious if my character was the one to actually get un-banned from town. *Challenge accepted*

To be fair, you kept your pants on. Hardly a banishable offense when you're not pantsless. Definitely a valid argument.

I can't wait to take you for a nice evening out at the Hearth & Home.

If you (or Bryce) can spot me the riln, of course.

[Alexander]

Hey all I did was deliver a barrel. Clearly Shadgard doesn't appreciate mail delivery.

The hazards of mail delivery appear to be universal, for I was assaulted by assassins and demons for delivering a letter to Corvus. I was similarly assaulted when picking up some friends from Corvus to bring them back home.

[Vazbol]

To be fair, all I did was drop off my 26 kids at the Church's Daycare. I'm not entirely sure why the militia began shooting. I swear that was self defense for me and my hungry kids.

[Slightbeam]

Good call. Condensing the playerbase means staff interactions involve everyone, content isn't being split and leaving both sides unhappy about missing out, and what is made will be higher quality.

[Slightbeam]

Sidenote: we need to abduct the skeletal gardener if the Claw gets a neutral base / we make one. They are an INTEGRAL PART of staff morale and must be maintained despite the potential budget cuts and political schism.

[Slaidh]

That's it, I'm moving to Vantfjall!

[Kiyaani]

Slaidh!!! Are you playing again? We'll have to start a canim who don't care about Corvus shenanigans faction ;)

[Slaidh]

You'd better believe it! And I'm always game for shenanigans!

[Rias]

Q: Is the active character faction restriction going to be removed, so people with a Corvus character can also have a non-Corvus character active at the same time?
A: As of now that restriction has been lifted, but I reserve the right to re-implement it again if things get goofy, or on a case-by-case basis for individuals that I feel it may still be necessary for.

With the increasing faction-vs-faction activity recently, I'll be turning the cross-faction active character restriction back on to avoid things like using alts to get opposite-faction information (town post boards, faction ESP channels, talking to the other faction's PCs as one of them, general rumors and NPC activity, etc.) or playing both sides of the conflict. I haven't seen anyone actually doing anything goofy like OOCly sharing cross-faction info via information gained through their alts, but that's also very much not something we can effectively monitor (nor do we want to have to do so) and I'd rather just not have the temptation there at all. Even people with the best of ability to keep things separated will need to make a conscious effort to avoid acting on spoilery information. It's not fun to have to decide something like "well I know I'm walking into a trap (or an ally is) because I heard them setting it up while on my alt in that faction, but I have to let it happen anyway because THIS character doesn't know any of that. And I have to sell that I didn't know and prepare for it either."

Plus, spoilers just aren't fun in general!

[Vazbol]

Well pals, peace was never an option. Strap on your spurred boots or spiked armor and yee and haw.


The bit of freedom was nice, but having to do things like actively avoiding town meetings was awkward on alts. Fine with me, but all those missed interactions and RPA's.

Also, I guess when things start getting bad and eventually everyone in Shadgard are at each other's throats. The outpost can be counted on to bring everyone together in mutual animosity. Or you know, make tensions worse afterwards.