Canyon: Stygian Aura

[Gorth]

Could be nice to help with some of the disparity in numbers and rerolls in some places.

[Dorn]

Can't say I'm a particular fan of the recent change to the the "marker" for Corvites going into the Canyon. Previously it was a long-term aura to help highlight people against Shadgard, but recently got changed to a debuff for 5 minute fo over 50% debuff to perception.

It felt like before it was very much a case of, this helps highlight people hostile to Shadgard, and helping people identify who they are.

It now feels like just a buff to try and help people kill them. Admittedly, I could be wrong, as I've not tried it out, but the wording with the debuff comments about how difficult it is to see through it. If it comes with some weird dodge/tumble/miss chance based on struggling to see through this aura then fair enough.

[Dorn]

It just got pointed out to me, there is a similar debuff for approaching Corvus. If it works the same, all good by me.

[Dorn]

Could be nice to help with some of the disparity in numbers and rerolls in some places.

There are plenty of legacy Shadgard characters who are more than capable to stand toe-to-toe. Admittedly, a bit more skewed as Corvus is now pure legacy and one sides will grow while the others won't.

[Rias]

It still serves its purpose of immediately identifying approaching enemies to town defenders, and the debuff was added to make it a little less tempting to wander in without good reason. Not that a perception debuff does much in a canyon where it's impossible to hide anyway, but it seemed to make the most logical sense for what the effect is.

Corvus has its own measures for discouraging invaders from getting too close to their outpost, but it's not just a mirror of what Shadgard has done since they have different individuals working on defensive measures via different methods.

[Dorn]

The timing was reduced though, so it feels like it has become less of an identifier and more a debuff. Previously it was very much something you could wander around the world for an extended period of time, and have it active. I'm not sure I need to point out the redundancy of the fact that with the non-support stance that non-Corvites will be easily spotted anyway.

I'm unsure what being unable to hide in the canyon has to do with it? Despite many, many, changes, stealth/ambush is still one of the most dangerous openings that anyone can perform currently (especially with the lack of charge/trample). The fact most people can't even train perception reliably with the systems available, but they can rock up stealth.

Was being shot at immediately not good enough reason not to wander within

[Rias]

It's not meant to be a long-term identifier on someone as they travel across the world for extended periods of time, just an easy-to-notice signal for town defenders that hey, that person who just wandered into the canyon is a Corvite, get ready to start blasting.

I mentioned being unable to hide in the canyon because it means you won't be making perception checks during a push toward the gate and attempted siege because potential ambushers wouldn't be able to hide in there.

[Dorn]

It's not meant to be a long-term identifier on someone as they travel across the world for extended periods of time, just an easy-to-notice signal for town defenders that hey, that person who just wandered into the canyon is a Corvite, get ready to start blasting.

I mentioned being unable to hide in the canyon because it means you won't be making perception checks during a push toward the gate and attempted siege because potential ambushers wouldn't be able to hide in there.

Which makes it a change from how it was. As it was definitely a long-term identifier instead of an actual debuff. From your point of view, I'd say, why bother. Who cares. You can't hide in the canyon anyway, so why does it matter. It's short term. Ultimately, it's a huge bonus for anyone setting up an ambush outside, which is what usually happens. And gone from a RP tool to something else.

If we can't see through it, do people struggle to see through it?

[Gorth]

Was being shot at immediately not good enough reason not to wander within

Doesn't seem so.

[Dorn]

Was being shot at immediately not good enough reason not to wander within

Doesn't seem so.

It isn't quite as simple as you think, from your experience, of standing, right at the edge of the canyon.

[Gorth]

Seems like, to me, Shadgardians built a defense against unwanted visitors so that they wouldn't come around. Might be inconvenient, but it's the Lost Lands. Lots of things are inconvenient.

[Rias]

Which makes it a change from how it was. [...] Ultimately, it's a huge bonus for anyone setting up an ambush outside

That's true. There are risks that come along with actively antagonizing an entire faction, and if a group gets continually pushed sometimes they'll try and innovate to make it less tempting or trivial to antagonize them. Corvus has recently implemented multiple additional measures to make itself less trivial to antagonize. Various other NPC factions have also recently done so when they were getting pushed and poked and prodded at.

If we can't see through it, do people struggle to see through it?

There's no associated perception penalty to others (would that essentially equate to a stealth bonus to the target of the stygian aura?), if that's what you mean.

[Dorn]

Which makes it a change from how it was. [...] Ultimately, it's a huge bonus for anyone setting up an ambush outside

That's true. There are risks that come along with actively antagonizing an entire faction, and if a group gets continually pushed sometimes they'll try and innovate to make it less tempting or trivial to antagonize them. Corvus has recently implemented multiple additional measures to make itself less trivial to antagonize. Various other NPC factions have also recently done so when they were getting pushed and poked and prodded at.

If we can't see through it, do people struggle to see through it?

There's no associated perception penalty to others (would that essentially equate to a stealth bonus to the target of the stygian aura?), if that's what you mean.

I just mean, if we struggle to see through it to the point of above 50% penalty, how come people can see us clearly? Why don't we get a random evade chance based on them missing us in the haze.

However, good to know on the other side of this. I get wanting to push surprises and catch some of us off-guard, but there is a very thin line between that and stealth-nerfs.

[Dean]

As a new player, I had literally no idea what the stygian aura was. I just thought it was some sort of cool thing Dorn had going on and paid no attention to it whatsoever.

If it's meant to be a defense system, it's blatantly failing at that task, because legacy characters know Dorn is a Corvite already and don't need an aura to tell them that, while the aura doesn't actually communicate that to new players who don't already know him.

The bounty board, etc. do a better job of providing information, given the aura seemingly isn't explained... anywhere.

[Gorth]

But it communicates it to the NPCs, and, if a new player learns what it means, it can communicate to them that someone is a Corvite who they didn't know was. It's not like we can put a tag on them that says, Also here: Dorn (A Corvite).

It's just flavor roleplay stuff.

[Dean]

But it communicates it to the NPCs, and, if a new player learns what it means, it can communicate to them that someone is a Corvite who they didn't know was. It's not like we can put a tag on them that says, Also here: Dorn (A Corvite).

It's just flavor roleplay stuff.

If it's something everyone in town is meant to be aware of, it should probably be presented to new players in some fashion. The point I am making is that until this thread, I had no way to learn about that, because it didn't in any way indicate it was important enough to ask about - it's just a line of text appended to the character's brief description. It's a legacy character. I thought it was just some legacy ability or another and paid it no heed.

Maybe one of the tutorial quests or NPCs can explain these things, like our favorite retired adventurer.

And if it's just flavor roleplay stuff, it probably shouldn't have a mechanical disadvantage tied to it.

[Rias]

Right, a big part of why it's there is to avoid debates like "The guards shouldn't be attacking me, I'm wearing a disguise and they should have no idea I'm an enemy." Of course guards were identifying enemies before anyway without this, because Game Reasons(tm), and this happens in tons of other cases of faction hostility without any special identifying methods. I don't think it needs to be implemented everywhere. This particular one is just to help add a little more flavor and believability to this case so we don't have to lean quite so heavily on hand-wavy Game Reasons for one of the most prominent cases in the game.

There's no expectation that players can somehow intuit what this cloudy stygian aura means without any further information, just like we wouldn't expect players to somehow immediately recognize various Immortal symbols or guild emblems or other glowy spell effects or whatnot without first being told what they were or given some additional context or means of discernment. The relevant town NPCs have been informed of what it means, and they react accordingly. There were board posts about it when it first was set up, but those eventually go away so we'll put up a sign or notice somewhere, or maybe a news article, so PCs can have a way besides word of mouth or vague context to learn what it means, too. Adding it to the Raggni schpiel is a good idea too!

And if it's just flavor roleplay stuff, it probably shouldn't have a mechanical disadvantage tied to it.

It can be both! It's for flavor, and it's also another attempt at a functional town defense measure to discourage the enemies of Shadgard from frequenting their doorstep.

[Mirazia]

Another place it could be added is the Wanted Board. Just a text saying something like "Warning! If you see a person enter the canyon and become surrounded with a stygian aura, presume they are armed and dangerous!"