Stealth vs Crowds

[Dorn]

I imagine this would be hugely unpopular, but has a knockdown effect similar to multiple targets aiming at one person been considered?

The way I'd imagine it, is the more people you're hiding in front of instead of simply an individual stealth vs each of their perception is... the first roll would be as per normal vs your stealth, vs the second person your max roll would be reduced and so on and so on, depending on how many people you're hiding in front of.

Next, I could also see it done with people actively searching. The more people searching for you, in a certain span of time, the more of a reduction you'll take to your stealth roll.

[Sneaky]

I actually suggested this exact idea to Jirato a while back. He seemed to think it was a good idea. I don't know if that means it'll be put in any time soon.

[Dorn]

Neat. I mean, I'm not sure how the stealth vs crowds would work in terms of who to check first if you hid in front of say... 10 people. Purely random in order? Person with highest perception gets checked first, and then it goes down to the person with lowest?

Either way, I think it would be interesting and make stealth more... stealth, than kind of invisibility.

[Sneaky]

Stealth isn't invisibility. Most characters who use it don't use any kind of armor which means as soon as they're hit it's over for them. I do think it should be balanced out a bit more. I'm not sure adapting surround mechanics to stealth is the best way to go about it though.

[Dorn]

In practice, it ends up being it. Especially if you end up not using a melee weapon, and sniping. You could also say the one hit and it's all over for a lot of people who don't use stealth. Yes, it has its pros and cons like everything I know. It isn't the *I win* button but I definitely think it has some flaws.

[sona]

I agree it needs to be balanced out a bit more, but also to be made more friendly with various terrains IMO.

[Sneaky]

In a fight between people who have equal perception and stealth it isn't as OP as you might think. My biggest issue with this would be that people will just rely on having groups of people rather than training perception up. If this does become a thing I would say that it only start to hav any noticeable affect after 4 rolls, so people just aren't roaming around to bypass other character's stealth.

[Dorn]

I'm aware in a like vs like situation for very similar skill is a different situation.

I also fail to see how using groups of people would be any different to how high level defensive characters are handled now? Groups. Personally, it is one of the best things about Clok in my opinion that 1 very extremely skilled character can be dealt with by a group of coordinated but less skilled characters.

It would mean, if a stealth characters wanted to pick at a group of people they'd actually have to be stealthy or hit and run.

[Sneaky]

If you want to bypass stealth without having any skill what so ever, just grab an elemancer who canhydro nova, or any kind of nova for that matter. If there's a stealthy person attacking you, then run, walk away find a better terrain to fight on. There's plenty of ways to turn things like this in your group's favor. Other than that, I'd only find this acceptable if, like I said, it didn't start taking affect until after 4 opposing rolls, or 3 rolls that weren't completely taken off guard, that is to say their rolls weren't 10 percent of their max.

[Dorn]

You don't really answer as to how it is any different.

And everyone knows an elemancer can fix any situation but that kind of leaves out the rest of the playerbase.

I also fail to see how this would mean no one would train perception at all. Considering perception would still be needed to spot a target, the opposing stealth roll would just be reduced. Just because I liken it to defensive pushdown, doesn't mean it has to be as drastic in regards to how much is taken out.

[Sneaky]

Surround mechanics.
1vs 4 people.
the group of four people attacks the single target. Single target can't just dodge their attacks, they're a direct threat and requires effort on their part to deflect each one.
1 stealthed target vs 4 targets.
Stealthed target fires from the best possible position they can manage, I.E. they roll their stealth skill. Group checks their individual perception rolls to see if they spot the attack and also determines how much time they have to react which is reflected in their max roll pool.
For the sake of this example let's say the stealthed target has 1k stealth, and each of the targets has 200 perception.
I fail to see how they would be able to force this attacker's stealth roll down. You could argue that they have more eyes and therefore are watching more areas, but 4 people is not much of a difference in terms of avoiding being spotted in a place like the woods. At best you could have the four people make a square facing outwards, but then it would still just be a 1k vs 200 roll which is why I say that this should not take affect until after a group of four people is formed.

[Dorn]

...that's not what I asked about, but okay.

Probably just best to agree to disagree about it.

[Jaster]

If there are 4 people in a room that you are sneaking into, then you have separate stealth vs. perception rolls for each person. There is already a higher chance of being spotted with more occupants.

If you try to steal from one of those people, there is a chance any of the 4 could spot your action. There is already a higher chance of being spotted with more occupants.

If you try to sneak out of a room where there is 4 people, you have separate stealth vs. perception rolls for each person. There is already a higher chance of being spotted with more occupants.

If you try to hide in a room with 4 people, you have separate stealth vs. perception rolls for each person. There is already a higher chance of being spotted with more occupants.

Isn't this how the stealth system works, or has my understanding of the system been incorrect for the past 4+ years?

It doesn't make sense (to me) that if you are hiding from two people, you have less of a chance of staying hidden from just the second person on account of "well... there's two of them, and he happens to be the second."

[Dorn]

Yes. That is exactly how the stealth system works. No. You are not mistaken.

[Dakhal]

I have a pretty darn high stealth skill and I can be seen pretty regularly by people I know have pathetic perception by comparison.

RNG is powerful and stealth rolls are very random.

I will say that I'm at the point I feel very confident sneaking in on most people though.