Missing VS Dodging

[Fayne]

Would it be possible for ranged attacks and some forms of magic to "miss" rather than be "dodged"?

I've always found it rather silly that everything in the Lost Lands is capable of dodging arrows, bullets, crossbow bolts, and quite literally anything thrown (or swung) at them. In the heat of battle, I never imagine that someone wielding a bow or crossbow is ever going to manage to get far enough away from their adversary for them to see the arrow or bolt coming in time to dodge out of the way, and let's not even mention bullets fired from a flintlock or musket. The more likely scenario is that the projectile was never in danger of hitting them in the first place, in which case it would be a "miss".

A miss could still add skill to dodge, and mechanically it could be the exact same thing. I just think it adds a bit more realism to combat than saying that critter managed to jump out of the way of your speeding arrow or bullet. Same goes for certain elemancy spells, especially AoE spells.

[Acarin]

You're missing, I'm dodging. It's just a matter of perspective.

[Fayne]

I have to disagree. While some things could be a matter of perspective, an arrow shot at close range or a musket ball fired from a gun would be moving at such high speeds that you'd hardly be able to twitch before it reached your position, let alone dodge. I seriously doubt that in the heat of battle, your opponent is going to let you run a few hundred yards away to fire at them, which means they are close enough for whatever projectile you are firing to close the gap between you in less than a second. I think it's safe to say they missed instead of their target dodging. This goes double for attacks done from hiding; you can see a large man wielding a large sword or spear jumping out of those bushes coming, but a small arrow whistling through the air from a direction you may not have even been looking in, it's quite unlikely.

[Skah]

If they are just missing, there should not be any defensive rolls at all. If the other person's dodge skill is being taken into effect, then it should be described as a dodge. I'm not sure why you think they can only start dodging after the arrow has been fired though, or that they are necessarily so close that moving out of the way would be impossible.

[Acarin]

Dodging projectiles isn't too difficult, especially if you can anticipate when the trigger will be pulled or the arrow released. Seriously, try firing at a moving target. It's not that easy to hit at range. Besides, no one stands still in combat (hopefully).

[Acarin]

What I've always found odd is marksmanship skill adding to your projectile dodge roll. Since marksmanship is basically learning how to hold really still and be steady, it doesn't seem like it equates to getting out of the way. As you've implied, a knowledge of projectiles and the way they move would not give sufficient time for you to get out of the way at an increased rate (starting from a stand still)... and archers are rarely moving targets when in ranged.

[Jaster]

The evidence is overwhelming.... we should be able to carry food in our mouths to free up our hands in combat.

[Makkah]

[Kunren]

The evidence is overwhelming.... we should be able to carry food in our mouths to free up our hands in combat.

Taric is basically an anime character. He should get the ability to cut through bullets coming at him. For double damage since that would just split the bullet into several pieces without severely changing its projectory if it didn't break the sword.

[Fayne]

I think all of the anime examples count as missing except for the last. If they don't, I may have to say that Stormtroopers actually have excellent aim and every character important to the storyline in Star Wars has impeccable dodging skills. As for the other arguments, I have to point out that most of them actually support missing instead of dodging. I'm sure that if you were lucky and saw an arrow coming, you could easily move out of the way if it were a near-miss anyway. However, a bullet is just moving too fast to claim that anyone without superpowers could actually move out of its way.

You see, when using any kind of ranged weapon, you have to anticipate the movements of the target and the conditions of the air your projectile has to move through. If you fail to do this, then you have missed. Saying that someone moving, either before or after the projectile has been released, results in them dodging is just illogical. If you replace that deer or that person with a big bullseye, even if it reacted in the same way, you would never claim the bullseye had dodged.

I do realize that, if you consider every ranged attack as a "hit or miss" situation, then it would negate all need for a defensive roll at all, but I still say this isn't so. As was stated in a previous post, a moving target is much harder to hit than a stationary one. If that target is then moving erratically, that makes the difficulty even higher. The dodge skill still fits in this case, as if you have more experience with simply not being where that attack is supposed to land, you can have a better chance of making yourself a harder target for someone with a simple bow or (already highly inaccurate) flintlock to hit. On the other hand, if someone has a high marksman skill and archery/firearms skill, they will be able to better see a pattern in your movements and anticipate where you will be regardless of how random your movements might be.

So you see, while skill on both ends of the weapon do indeed play an important factor, it still comes down to "hit or miss"; if the wielder of the weapon failed to anticipate where his or her target would be, then the target was never in danger of being hit, and as such qualifies as a "miss" instead of a "dodge".

[Jaster]

I would like to point out that Vash the Stampede was able to leap into the air and redirect a rocket into the ceiling by kicking it. Skillz.

I couldn't find a gif of that, so, obviously, the point is moot.

Also:

if you have more experience with simply not being where that attack is supposed to land, you can have a better chance of making yourself a harder target for someone

"Dodging".

[Acarin]

Again, it's a matter of perspective. You missed. I dodged.