Cold!

[Elystole]

Regarding temperature, I don't want to reveal specific mechanics and take away from the magic. It's actually quite generous and requires lower temperatures than what their real-world counterparts are (For example, "Freezing" in CLOK doesn't start until quite a bit under 32 Fahrenheit).

I live in Alaska now, and it is -18 degrees outside today. That's not even the coldest it has been though it has been a warm winter and we haven't hit -40 yet. Up here, anything above zero is a warm day. If it breaks 32 then we start seeing people go outside without their coats. I actually feel like the cold weather system in CLOK underestimates people's resistance to cold, but I haven't been able to go completely native in CLOK and wrap myself up in caribou fur to see if that fixes things because of the bugs in the leatherworking system. For the people in warmer climes, you can spend hours and hours in freezing weather if you are prepared. I've done it. There are plenty of folks, like trappers or those who run the Iditarod or Yukon Quest, who spend days without shelter or fire.

I'm not suggesting we go that far, but if we're properly equipped I think we should be able to leave town, get to where we are going, explore for a few hours, and get back before dying of hypothermia. Right now it is more of a scurry between spots of mild weather with no opportunity to really explore the colder areas.

[Rias]

This is brought up quite frequently. One thing to consider is that you can make a day's worth of travel int he wilderness in about 30 seconds. Another thing is that you can have an appendage nearly amputated in CLOK, slap on a bandage with some herbs, and be fit as fiddle in a few minutes. We design things the way we want them.

[Rias]

To go into a little more detail (I was in-between rounds of Metroid Blast with my son on that previous post) ...

Overall reason: When I designed it, I wanted the cold winters in some places to be a significant threat and considering factor to PCs. It's always possible it'll be changed, so I'm not trying to discourage discussion, just giving my reasons.

Points To Consider:
- If it took hours, or an hour, or even half an hour, this mechanic would be more or less ignorable by the majority of players. The only places people tend to spend that amount of time in are towns, which are full of room warmers and indoor shelter.
- To me, at least, it's fun to feel like you're battling the environment in some places. If it was something that could be mostly ignored, it wouldn't be much of a factor, and not as fun.
- Temperatures don't necessarily correlate exactly between the real world and the CLOK world. Nothing in CLOK reads an actual, numerical temperature. Obviously, these are based on real-world weather stations, as we've mentioned, to keep things dynamic. That doesn't mean it's pure truth and law that the CLOK conditions are exactly what the corresponding conditions are from the real-world weather stations. If your character is feeling "cold" (or "freezing"), they're feeling cold enough that it'll be a threat if they don't find shelter from said cold somewhere eventually. If it's not life-threatening, your character will feel "chilly".
- As mentioned in my previous post about nigh-amputated limbs healing in a few minutes with the aid of a mere bandage and some ground herbs, CLOK human physiology is clearly different from real-world physiology in some ways, albeit extremely similar for sake of convenience. Some things are exaggerated.
- Another repeat with a little more detail: You may only spend 30 seconds traveling through a freezing area, but consider the wonkiness that is the disparity between game time and actual time. You can't really assume your character traveled 10 leagues in 30 actual seconds. There's some give and take involved, and the way things currently are is an acceptable balance to me, at least. The other GMs may have other opinions, so again, don't let me discourage discussion.
- CLOK just isn't the real world. It's very similar, but also very different in many ways. We made it the way it is on purpose (minus bugs, of course).

Similar things could be said while arguing for an increase to the encumbrance limit, because people in the real world can routinely carry X pounds of weight easily. It was designed to be the way it currently is on purpose, and we are more or less happy with the balances, thresholds, and limitations as they are. It falls in line with the intended design.

[Elystole]

I think I understand what you're saying, Rias, and I agree that the cold should be a danger. I also like a challenge, but that implies that the challenge is surmountable.

For example, I think going outside in cold or freezing weather without protection is a good way to get yourself killed. And the temperatures up here will kill you pretty quickly if you aren't protected. If some townie goes outside in linens and silks, smite them.
But I also think that if you put in the time and effort to get yourself a good set of furs, thereby forgoing the protection offered by better armor and increasing your encumbrance, you should be pretty resilient. I don't see that as ignoring the problem but taking steps to solve the problem. Some of us spent an ability point and received a warmth bonus.

I mean here I am, coming back from a long break, and my first thought coming back is "[Frak] me, it's cold." That thought derailed my thought of, "I'm an outdoorsman, so I should go exploring and check out the new stuff that has been released." And it's not for lack of trying. I immediately went out and replaced my clothing with warmer stuff. Some things I didn't see a fur option for. Others I tried just straight leather or fur-felt (which I was hoping to be warm) to try and preserve the Western style, but seeing as I was still really cold despite feeling "well-fortified against cold weather" and benefiting from the 10% bushcraft bonus I may abandon that and go for the trapper look like I'm in the arctic.

It seems like in trying to make things dangerous for the townie that it substantially increased the difficulty for those of us who do want to spend hours outdoors without giving us the option to compensate.

So a few thoughts:
Can we please get an update on where fixing leatherworking is on the to-do list? That alone might resolve the cold issue and it's been broken for a long time. Maybe less weight and more warmth for higher quality furs?

Jirato fixed the weather system for a lot of places, but that also made it so there is much more area to cover that is cold or freezing with no warmer breaks between them. Might the GMs consider adding one-room shelters to the more bleak areas where people can bolt to and warm up? Caves, hollows, abandoned shacks, etc. Those watchtowers are great. Sometimes you just need to get out of the wind and "chilly" is at least survivable.

It's been a while since I tried to make a campfire because I remember it being such a pain in the butt. It's really one of the more complex systems on the game: You need to get tinder, kindling, and branches just to start which takes a while, and anything less than logs doesn't burn long enough to really matter, but carrying a logging axe with you everywhere you go isn't practical (they are heavy and cruddy weapons) and people can't make them with blacksmithing or knapping (for those of us who have been dumped in the woods with nothing but a sack and a knife). Something that might help is if you could fell trees with handaxes which seem to be more like what a felling axe would be IRL. Or for logging/felling axes to be more respectable weapons and be craftable.

I definitely don't want the cold weather to just go away, but it seems like some of the tools in our box for dealing with the cold aren't working right.

[Rias]

I can't comment on the leatherworking thing (not my area), but remember that wool is another nice and toasty material for garments, and is a very common customization option. And don't forget to buy some underpants! (Only available at Shadgard currently, because Shadgard is the best!)

I'm all for more little nooks and shelters out there. I love those watchtowers, and I love adding little things to the wilderness. I'll to-do it. If you know of any particular places that are uber cold and very lacking in shelter, let me know. I've had some fun with people in the past who were hunkered in some by-the-way cave or other shelter, getting a quick thaw.

For campfire making, remember that you can FORAGE DEADWOOD GROUND (foraging it to the ground instead of having to constantly manually drop the stuff makes it far more convenient). Deadwood is far easier/more common to forage than regular branches, and can include all sizes of branch as well as deadwood logs that'll increase the time your campfire will burn by a goodly amount. You can't use the deadwood stuff for anything other than campfires, of course - that is, no crafting with it. But this means you can get all the materials for making a campfire (not counting the starter - firestones or whatnot) without any tools or abilities at all. Just your bare hands and your gumption! (P.S. I think it's easier to forage specifically for sticks - not branches - to break into kindling. They break a little easier, I believe.)

Or for logging/felling axes to be more respectable weapons

Huh, they've always struck me as one of the more feared weapons out there.

[sona]

On cold, I think one of the neater things to have, would actually be a more clear indication of how cold you are, "-10 cold damage", stacking a couple times, doesn't really carry over exactly how cold you are. Messaging like, "The tips of your fingers feel the sharp bite of the cold", "You begin shivering uncontrollably", "you should find shelter soon", "you need to find shelter soon", "your vision is beginning to fail, the last of your energy reserves begin to fail, you have minutes or moments to find shelter, before the cold overtakes you."

[Jirato]

On cold, I think one of the neater things to have, would actually be a more clear indication of how cold you are, "-10 cold damage", stacking a couple times, doesn't really carry over exactly how cold you are. Messaging like, "The tips of your fingers feel the sharp bite of the cold", "You begin shivering uncontrollably", "you should find shelter soon", "you need to find shelter soon", "your vision is beginning to fail, the last of your energy reserves begin to fail, you have minutes or moments to find shelter, before the cold overtakes you."

Good idea, I'll whip something up, poke me if I don't have it done in a week.