Haiban Import and Supply restocking

[Jirato]

Looks like there was a crate of Cobalt bars in the back room of the Haiban Import and Supply shop. Enjoy, but try to show some restraint and save some for others.

(Future restocks will NOT be announced, so be sure to check regularly.)

[sona]

Are the restocks done regularly? I've been checking regularly with no luck for days. Would we want to consider limiting import stock purchases to a certain amount per person, so one person doesn't walk in, buy out the whole lot and nothing is left for anyone else?

[crystal2014]

that may be a good idea, if a person has a limit on each amount of the supply they can buy each week or something like that.

[Jirato]

So, I've decided that the bloodsand that was on sale for the past two and a half weeks is going to be bought up by non-PC Artisans, because I didn't really intend for those limited supply items to be available for such an extended period of time.

I'm curious why only one person bought 2 of them though. I thought bloodglass was in pretty high demand. Any feedback on this? Did you feel the prices were too high, or did you just forget to check the shop to see if anything new was for sale or what?

[sona]

there was a general agreement that, at least between Ardor and I, that it just wasn't worth it. Bloodglass is uncommon, and this might be worth 5000-7500 a bar IF bloodglass weapons were repairable, but given the disposable nature of such weapons, and the extreme overhead we'd see on arrows if we did bloodglass arrows, it just didn't seem like there was profit to be made there, IMO.

[Jirato]

The original price was 5000... I bumped it up to 7500 because of the lack of repair-ability, which I felt would make bloodglass more rare and sought after. Guess that's not how it works.

[sona]

I'm not sure how to correctly break down the reasoning, but I think it's multifacted.

1) Artisans/player crafter pricing. Most buyers wouldn't be willing to eat the markup on something that materially costed 7500 per bar. I'd assume a reasonable markup would have to be like 50,000 for an exquisite per bar used, or 150,000 for a masterful per bar used piece.

2) Non-repairability. When players are used to being able to repair an item, taking that away makes the item worth less, unless they feel the quality via stats justify the cost increase. The fact that it's non repairable also means you're probably just going to want to keep it on hand for plotting PC murders with.

3) current player makeup. We currently have a mix of new and old players, A lot of older players already have some of this stuff if they wanted it. Newer players don't have this sort of riln to spend on materials without a guaranteed buyer lined up. And then with newer players, it's a crap shoot for crafted item quality, because we can't be 80% sure we'll make an exquisite. Obviously multiple attempts will eat into cost considerably.

I'm sure there's other factors, but that's what I feel like right now.

[Jirato]

I'd assume a reasonable markup would have to be like 50,000 for an exquisite per bar used, or 150,000 for a masterful per bar used piece..

What you decide to charge other characters for your stuff is your own business, but that seems really excessive. If it were me, I'd probably charge between 10,000 to 15,000.

[sona]

To be able to do that and not take a loss on materials, you're going to have to at the very least, have high enough skills that you have at least an 80% chance, give or take, of making an exquisite or masterful quality with bloodglass, if you don't get one in 1-2 tries, you're stuck eating costs and just losing riln.

[Rias]

Behold the power of words and tiny percentiles! The general consensus seems to be that if something isn't at least exquisite, it's straight up worthless. It's not an added bonus; it's a requirement.

So before, there were complaints that there was nothing for people to spend their vast sums of wealth on. Now we seem to have a problem where nobody wants to spend riln on things that have a shelf life, because ... why, again? What else is that riln useful for?

A lot of my design lately has been on things that will cost money, and have limited usage.

[sona]

some of the penny-pinching may well come from the newer players, who can't justify these purchases. I debated picking some up even at that price, but obviously there's some beliefs or something at work with the player base, because you spot some cobalt in there, and people throw their grandmothers under the wagon in an attempt to get it all 0.5 seconds quicker than anyone else.

I think the willingness to spend riln in very limited quantities is more restricted to artisan crafted goods. Sure, people will spend 50,000 , 100,000 or more on unique, one of a kind, limited shop weapons and armor if it looks neat and/or inspects as superior+ quality, but artisan stuff. Nope. The biggest deciding factor on not buying any bloodglass for me personally, was, aside from sincere concerns about being able to turn a profit (we still -do- want to turn a profit as artisans, right?) was that I'd heard murmurings about a grum spring festival, which may or may not come, but I'm hoping it does. My character's Grummer, so it'd be fun for her to get to get involved with some home-landy type stuff, browse the wares and spend on that once a year event, on something she might enjoy.

[Rias]

I can see the headlines now ... "blacksmiths throughout the lost lands contract strange disease, wares at all-time low. Shop shelves stocked with inferior goods from hasty replacement novice smiths."

[sona]

Naw, we're good for another 100 years or so. You've seen Ardor's courtyard, right? :P

[Rias]

The point being that maybe people would start valuing wares that weren't exquisite if the stuff commonly available in shops was inferior.

[sona]

Good idea, but honestly I think that's a sort of 'good luck shifting the player base's opinion that way' sort of thought. We play a game, and as much as we love our RP, players also want the best equipment they can get their hands on. The only way I can see that happening is likely by removing all instances and abilities to repair any item ever, from both players and remove the NPC repair shops. Then, there's a small chance they'll value non-exquisite stuff more. Maybe just a tiny bit. I'm a bit of a pessimist/realist when it comes to those sorts of things.

[Rias]

I was being sarcastic in any case.

[Kiyaani]

Oh, good. Sarcasm. I was worried for a moment.

[Kunren]

Sorry whoever already saw the post, it needed to be edited badly.


I wouldn't be adverse to taking away the ability to see the quality of something(without an artisan ability maybe) and to increase quality diverisity of weapons found and not made by pcs. I've picked up several cool looking things that I immediately gave up on when I saw they were average. It could make for some interesting rp as well. Shady deals or even mistakes would be fun if the ability wasn't always perfect like heft. I could see annoyances there for non-artisan craftsman. Maybe make it so that you can attempt to do a quality check on something when you hit x amount of skill in that particular profession? Like, a skilled smith could quality check a sword, but not a bow.

[Jaster]

For the record, I'd pay 150,000 riln for a masterful bloodglass dagger. I've spent much more on rare-material masterful items in the past. You should bet your chickens I'd snatch that stuff up if it only cost 15k!

[Jirato]

Would you buy an above average, or even average bloodglass dagger for 10k though?

[Jaster]

Oh yea! Absolutely. That's an excellent price, in my opinion.

[Fayne]

A lot of my design lately has been on things that will cost money, and have limited usage.

How about making all metal items break at some point? It could either be a random chance that could occur after 3 to 10 repairs, or it could be a set limit after so many repairs, though the random chance seems more realistic.

Now, before I get all the nay-sayers yelling at me, I would like to remind everyone that swords, shields, armor, and really anything made of metal are not infinitely repairable IRL. The way we repair these things in CLOK would eventually weaken them to the point that they just break and stay broken, either because the damage cannot be fixed, or because the metal becomes so weak that it breaks within a single use or two.

I think if everything broke, people would be a bit less uptight about buying weapons that are non-repairable. People who use bows already have to deal with this, and we don't complain. My quiver full of bloodglass arrows would only last however long it took me to lose them all, yet I'd be perfectly willing to buy them. (On a side note, I'm kinda waiting for bows to start degrading, because I have lots of ideas for that.)

[blindndangerous]

I'm actually surprised that wooden items don't break already. I have an exquisite staff, but when I examine it it says it's of terrible quality, but still does normal damage. So how has it not broken when I'm hammering it into infested's ribs constantly?

[Jirato]

I'm actually surprised that wooden items don't break already. I have an exquisite staff, but when I examine it it says it's of terrible quality, but still does normal damage. So how has it not broken when I'm hammering it into infested's ribs constantly?

There's a couple bugs there... if you haven't bugged it in game yet, please do and I'll see if I can look at it after work.

FYI though, it's what shows when you examine it that matters, whether or not its actual name is "an exquisite staff", it's still considered terrible anywhere that checks item qualities.

[Ardor]

I am one of the people who did not buy their allocated 5 bars, the reason being that I have not have had anyone ask for bloodglass in montha and I also have a lot of it on hand. In ye olden days, bloodsand was 1500 riln and in unlimited supply which made it pretty easy to use but even back then, people shied away from the high prices. Most people have never seen or used a bloodglass weapon so they cannot tell if the increase in damage is worth it being un-repairable and expensive.

I agree with Fayne, that with things lasting pretty much indefinitely, people do not like things that actually break. Clothing does not get damaged when you wear it in combat, weapons are pretty much repairable forever.

For the record, I'd pay 150,000 riln for a masterful bloodglass dagger. I've spent much more on rare-material masterful items in the past. You should bet your chickens I'd snatch that stuff up if it only cost 15k!

And yet you never bought my sunsteel dagger for 350k. Sad.