New Ability: Tangle Root

Rithiel · Post by **Rithiel** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:13 pm

Check it out here: http://wiki.contrarium.net/index.php/Tangle_Root

Post by **Rias** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:30 pm

Tangle Root now takes into account the target position (standing, prone, etc.) and active effects (unconsciousness, mesmerization, etc.).

Post by **Rias** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:14 pm

Oh, and it now has a 3-second roundtime. Hope Lacie enjoyed exploiting a no-roundtime spell while she could!

Lacie · Post by **Lacie** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:00 pm

I didn't exploit it.

Post by **Rias** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:07 pm

Yeah, you and your negative-weight, infinite-count bundles of arrows! Heh heh. Just having fun with you.

Lacie · Post by **Lacie** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:49 pm

Was it changed to 5 seconds for some reason or is that a bug?

Post by **Rias** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:09 pm

I was on my old mindset of 3-second casting times from a previous game when I first added the roundtime. The standard casting time for spells around here is 5 seconds, though I'd be willing to debate changing that for non-direct-attack spells such as Tangle Root, Minor Beacon, Flashbang and the like.

Reynard · Post by **Reynard** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:01 pm

Does this have any limitation on where it can be cast? I'm imagining so, but I'm not seeing any mention of it.

Post by **Rias** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:12 pm

Tangle Root requires one of any (either category, doesn't require both) of the following:

Terrains:
- Grass
- Dirt
- Mud
- Foliage

Environments:
- Plains
- Forest

We've got expansion ideas for it being more effective in forest/foliage.

Reynard · Post by **Reynard** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:19 pm

I haven't noticed this spell costing energy. (Apart from the drain from channeling.) Is this intentional? I've been assuming that Gaea is doing the heavy lifting.

Post by **Rias** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:31 pm

Energy cost comes from the active channeling.

I added color-coding to success/fail messaging though.

Reynard · Post by **Reynard** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:04 pm

Oh god thank you so much.

Reynard · Post by **Reynard** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:49 pm

I mentioned on Skype yesterday that Tangle Root scales... weird. Far as I can tell, it lasts 3 times as long with 3 channels as it does with 1.

...I should probably fact check before I begin talking about why that is bad. Rias, does Tangle Root last 3 times as long with 3 channels as it does with 1? kthnx

edited to add:
Actually, if you can just say how long it lasts for each of 1, 2, and 3 channels, that would make it a lot easier to demonstrate. Thanks in advance.

Post by **Rias** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:58 pm

random(10,20)*channels, so 10-20, 20-40, or 30-60.

Reynard · Post by **Reynard** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:56 pm

Hm... Looks like I'll have to recind my previous statement. Going over the situation I was thinking of, it seems decently balanced. Here's the math, for those that care:

1 channel, using flatbow
Rotation:
Cast 702 (5 RT)
1-3 shots (5 RT each)

Totals:
10-20 RT
7 Energy/shot
2.2 Energy/RT
10-6.7 RT/shot

1->3->1 channels, using flatbow
Rotation:
Druid (3 RT) [assume 2 RT early]
Druid (3 RT) [assume 2 RT early]
Cast 702 (5 RT)
Release Druid (0 RT) [assume 2 RT after cast]
Release Druid (0 RT) [assume 3 RT after cast]
4-10 shots (5 RT each)

Totals:
31-61 RT
13.9-7.3 Energy/shot
2.8-2.56 Energy/RT
15.5-6.1 RT/shot

Acarin · Post by **Acarin** » Sat May 12, 2012 10:23 am

As we've been discussing tangle root on another board, I thought I'd bring it over here.

Rias, should tactics be changeable while rooted? If you get caught in tactic dodge with this, it can keep you in place with no defense for close to a minute right now. I don't see why when we can't move out of the way, we wouldn't be able to focus on our parry/block to compensate.

Also, should we be able to stand while rooted? I'm assuming the vines don't wrap around the whole body or do they?

Last, what's the defense roll for this based on? Kian believes offense is based off of the number of druidry channels running (100 each) + 1 for each druidry ranks. The defense on the other hand seems to be far less than the dodge raw skill (or is it based on something else?)

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sat May 12, 2012 10:37 am

It doesn't actually keep you without any defenses for close to a minute. It keeps people that wear light or no armor without defenses, as they aren't wearing armor. The average times for the root effect, at 82 druidry, are 15.3, 27.9, and 50.9 seconds. And the actual root time varies a good deal. There's a 19 second difference between my minimum root effect and maximum root effect at 3 channels with 82(83 for the last couple of tests) druidry.

Last night, the longest time you were most likely being rooted for was 40 seconds which is technically close to a minute in that it's past the halfway mark.

Acarin · Post by **Acarin** » Sat May 12, 2012 10:54 am

[quote=KianTheArcher]It doesn't actually keep you without any defenses for close to a minute. It keeps people that wear light or no armor without defenses, as they aren't wearing armor. The average times for the root effect, at 82 druidry, are 15.3, 27.9, and 50.9 seconds. And the actual root time varies a good deal. There's a 19 second difference between my minimum root effect and maximum root effect at 3 channels with 82(83 for the last couple of tests) druidry.

Last night, the longest time you were most likely being rooted for was 40 seconds which is technically close to a minute in that it's past the halfway mark.[/quote]

read above:
1 channel: 10-20 seconds
2 channel: 20-40 seconds
3 channel: 30-60 seconds <--- so yes, close to a minute is possible.

At 3 channels if you get lucky you can keep someone held for a minute and they could have no defensive ROLL (I hope that clarification helps). Armor reduces damage taken, yes, but it has nothing to do with one's ability not to take that damage in the first place.

Regardless of the amount of time I was rooted, I am only asking with this point that tactics be changeable while rooted. You said yourself you thought this was perfectly reasonable so I don't see why you keep arguing about it.

Is a rooted person still able to start channels? I can't remember...

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sat May 12, 2012 11:10 am

Yep. Close to a minute is possible if the Udemi raises three channels. That being said, the likelihood of actually keeping three channels open long enough to do that, while wearing armor, is unlikely due to the way channeling and armor works.

Post by **Rias** » Sat May 12, 2012 11:27 am

Tactics are now changeable while rooted. There's no reason you wouldn't be able to change your mindset to, "Hey, I'm going to try and block things now instead of dodge" while rooted.

The defense against tangle root is partially dodge, partially perception. It's been modified a bit to make it more reasonable.

The ability to break or chop free from the roots prematurely was put on the idea list but never gotten around to, so I'll bring it up again.

Acarin · Post by **Acarin** » Sat May 12, 2012 11:34 am

Whether it's difficult to perform or not (and getting three channels up isn't THAT difficult and can be done for at least 1 or 2 casts before the 3rd channel drops) the opportunity still exists. There are many abilities that are difficult to perform or set up (I have a few myself). Whether you chose to wear armor or not and that is interfering is irrelevant to the functionality of the ability itself.

Every ability is influenced by a variety of factors and if you are doing things that reduce your chances to use that ability successfully, that shouldn't effect evaluation of the ability itself. I'd like to reiterate that this isn't personal. I'm not asking for you personally to be nerfed.

I'm just trying to point out something that appears to be broken/unbalanced so that it can be fixed.

Acarin · Post by **Acarin** » Sat May 12, 2012 11:35 am

Thanks Rias!