herbalism and the most recent change

[xavier]

Let me start off by saying that I completely understand the reason why the change was made to herbalism so grinding herbs doesn't give skill gains. Having said that I'd like offer a suggestion on how to set herbalism up so that it is still something someone would feel worth doing.
foraging nets you skill gains until 50. 0.04 per successfully found plant.
grinding also nets you skill gains until 75. 0.02 per plant ground. or 0.01 per inferior, 0.02 per average, 0.03 per potent.
once beyond 75 only making poultices will net you herbalism skill gains, however the amount gained through the making of a poultice could possibly be increased to 0.1. I chose this number because gathering the herbs to make poultices is very time consuming even at 75 herbalism, somewhat costly in food and bandages (if you run into nasty stuff) and 25 poultices per skill study is a wonderful thing.

Now I've noticed that sometimes I don't successfully make the poultice, I however do not use up the herbs or the cloth (so far as I've been able to tell) I think this would be a good risk to add. if making the poultice is actually done on a random roll as I suspect, you could even make a complete fail destroy not only the herbs used in trying for that poultice but a couple more or something.

Anyway this is just that, a suggestion. I made 44 poultices the other day and didn't even manage 2 whole skill points, it has become somewhat frustrating.
Comments, modifications, welcome.

[Kiyaani]

I'm not sure why poultices fall under herbalism at all so maybe some explanation could be made. The skill specifically says: Herbalism training will net you some basic wilderness foraging and herbalism skills, allowing you to more easily find food and other resources growing in the wild. Note that you may need specific herbalism or other specialist training in order to find some of the rarer and more specialized plants and fungi out there.

I would think that poultice-making should fall under the un-implemented alchemy skill.

On the wiki: Alchemy is a mostly unimplemented profession. The part that is implemented isn't really alchemy, but if the creation of healing poultices to make bandages work better than they otherwise would.

Either way I'm not sure why there's a cap on herbalism unless it's to help prevent people from getting nothing but potent herbs and then selling them. If it's economy-based, perhaps another solution can be found so people can still skill-up without feeling like it's a giant time sink. This is a risk-free skill like swimming or music - both of which have caps in place, but only because certain mechanics are still being worked on. If the caps here are for similar reasons, maybe it would help to make those reasons or the intentions for herbalism skillgains known.

*btw - there's a typo on that wiki page ;)

[Kent]

A herbalism lesson is a nightmare now to burn off.

You basically need to gather a large stockpile of herb ingredients and cloths, and make poultices.

If making a poultice is the only way to gain in herbalism, then it should give a greater skillgain than what it does currently.

I don't know why foraging herbs doesn't give us at least a tiny skillgain, regardless. Say about 0.005. Locating and successfully harvesting a mature sample of herbs is the nuts-and-bolts of this skill.

Also what Kiyaani said made a lot of sense.

[Rias]

The reason it's "capped" is because it was an eternally-gaining challenge-less no-risk low-investment skill. Why do you even want to grind up your herbalism, when the highest challenge rating is so feeble you can't skill up beyond 70ish with it? I see no reason to give means of grinding skills vastly beyond what they're actually used for in-game, just so that grinders can feel they've got an uber high skill number.

The answer is implementing new, higher challenges that can then be used to skill up further - not letting people infinitely gain off easy, no-risk, nigh-effortless, easily-AFK-grindable activities with a challenge rating left far behind the skill rolls involved.

[jilliana]

The answer is implementing new, higher challenges that can then be used to skill up further - not letting people infinitely gain off easy, no-risk, nigh-effortless, easily-AFK-grindable activities with a challenge rating left far behind the skill rolls involved.

First thought to this: Finding ants in that pretty patch of herbs.

[Elystole]

The reason it's "capped" is because it was an eternally-gaining challenge-less no-risk low-investment skill. Why do you even want to grind up your herbalism, when the highest challenge rating is so feeble you can't skill up beyond 70ish with it? I see no reason to give means of grinding skills vastly beyond what they're actually used for in-game, just so that grinders can feel they've got an uber high skill number.

The answer is implementing new, higher challenges that can then be used to skill up further - not letting people infinitely gain off easy, no-risk, nigh-effortless, easily-AFK-grindable activities with a challenge rating left far behind the skill rolls involved.

The reason I wanted my herbalism to keep increasing is because I thought that would improve my chances of getting "potent" ground herbs instead of "inferior" ones. I thought that was why grinding still gave gains. Was I mistaken?

[xavier]

since this is obviously going to take a while to implement could we at least get a standard decrease in round time when foraging to 2 seconds or even 3? I have reached that 70ish cap and I still don't find herbs everytime I forage or even see everything that is there when I survey.

[Skah]

could we at least get a standard decrease in round time when foraging to 2 seconds or even 3?

I don't think herbalism effects roundtimes, at least past the 5 second mark.

Herbalism is definitely an easy, low risk skill to train, and foraging is the easiest way to make decent coin.

I think the solution to both is to make herbs harder to find, and have more in areas that are at least somewhat challenging. Then add skillgains for herbs to a high level (herb dependant) and permanently remove the skillgains for literal grinding.

Personally, I ground every herb I found, not to feel like I had an "uber high" skill, but because I really do think of Skah as a herbalist (and hopeful alchemist) first and foremost. Like Rias said, there aren't really mechanical advantages past a fairly low skill level.

[xavier]

I keep hearing the fact that there is no advantage to having a high herbalism skill. however while standing in the same room with another character that has a high herbalism skill the other day and both of us foraging. That person found 3 herbs to my 1. This in my opinion is an advantage.
I simply don't want herbalism going down the drains because seek to redress it is a low risk skill. Rias might I ask if you have plans already in the works for herbalism, and if so would you be willing to share them?

[Rias]

I don't plan to let herbalism go down the drain. It just needs to be expanded and have more stuff implemented with higher challenge ratings to facilitate further gain. Herbalism skill does impact the quality of ground herbs - I just don't like the idea that grinding up plants with a mortar and pestle grants you advanced herbalism knowledge. It's pretty goofy to me. (I'm sure people will point out other goofy gain methods now)

Planned stuff:

- New herbs with higher challenge ratings to identify/discover
- Herbal concoctions for remedies, balms, poisons, etc. (more advanced/involved stuff will possibly require a new skill in addition to herbalism)

[Lavi]

I think that's really cool that we'd possibly be able to make remedies and the like. along with bombs and poisons. although in a way it would almost be cool to have an herbalist guild at that point. with some difficult things for them to have to acquire to gain that knowledge. especially for curing ailments and stuff. not sure that this idea is something you want to go with though. Still a thought.