Removal of login/logout notifications

[Rias]

Hey look, I'm suggesting something!

I'm considering just removing login/logout notifications altogether. You've got ESP PULSE for if you want to announce your presence (and paying attention) IC-ly, and OOCly, you can just chat "Hello everyone" when you login, if you want people to know you just logged in.

This should, among other things, cut down on those slip-ups where someone logs in and people immediately say over ESP "Hi Bob!" even though you never pulsed or said anything on ESP.

What say the players?

[Ardor]

With the pulse the login message sems kind of redundant, although the logout is a bit useful if you are talking to someone over ESP and they disconnect... while you just keep blabbering because you never noticed.

[Rias]

You know the best way to see how it'll go? Implement it and see what happens!

So, let's see what happens while notifiactions are off. Post thoughts here.

[Kiyaani]

I never have chat on anymore so as long as the /who command stayed that would be fine. But if /who goes away I might be a sad panda.

[jilliana]

I'm really digging it so far.
In reference to what Ardor said...technically, we're not supposed to know they are gone IC by seeing they logged out since the log out message is also OOC. Keep talking until you realize they're not listening seems reasonable enough in character.
Again, totally digging it!

[Lun]

It's pretty cool, actually. Except for the fact that the WHO Plugin seems to be botched as a result.

[TwistedAkai]

I'm very much liking this idea, and I'm perfectly okay with it. If people want to be known, they can make themselves known. It's a bump to immersion, and actually helps cut back meta a decent bit. As for the Who plugin, it could just update like the gold counter does, on the use of the command.

[Kent]

Somehow my message got posted twice, and I don't see how to delete this, so I edited it into this one sentence.

[Kent]

Hey look, I'm suggesting something!

I'm considering just removing login/logout notifications altogether. You've got ESP PULSE for if you want to announce your presence (and paying attention) IC-ly, and OOCly, you can just chat "Hello everyone" when you login, if you want people to know you just logged in.

This should, among other things, cut down on those slip-ups where someone logs in and people immediately say over ESP "Hi Bob!" even though you never pulsed or said anything on ESP.

What say the players?

I've observed it's a rarity when people greet each other over esp without a pulse or message first.

Additionally, from an IC perspective, people don't join and leave the lands. Perhaps they take their pendant off, and perhaps they go to sleep, but they don't login IC. So really, greeting people on ESP at anytime makes more sense than it first appears.

Instead of all together removing the message, how about a new option where each player can decide to disable these login messages.

[Noctere]

As far as the plugin goes, the who list is not working with this change. I might try to make something in the next version that stealth updates it or perhaps some other method. We'll see, I need to discuss this with the staff.

[faylen]

Kent, there was already a way for players to disable the login or logout notifications, just FYI.

To be honest, although I can see the reasons for doing this, I'm still not sure I like it. It just means a lot more checking the who list to see if someone might be around I might be interested in roleplaying with, or the reverse, checking to see if someone is around that I'd frankly rather avoid interacting with. I realize this could be considered metagaming by some, especially the latter, but it's the way that I've found I can keep my enjoyment of the game. In addition it's a little less easy to detect new players unless they say something over question or I'm checking the who list a lot. When new players show up, if I'm not multi tasking I often try to sort of keep an eye out for them to see if I can help them get started or be drawn into the rp. It doesn't always work but I try.

Having said all of that it's not a super huge thing for me. If I have to just keep checking the who list then I will. If the gms and/or the majority of players like this change, I can certainly accept and respect that.

[Kiyaani]

I will say, it was kinda nice that Acarin was able to actually sneak up on one of my alts totally unexpected for once. I had to actually check the /who list because I wasn't sure why a certain something happened out of the blue and then I was like huh, neat.

Aside from that lovely side-effect, the removal of login/logout notifications has made it more annoying to see if someone I want to interact with OOCly - who might not have skype or IRC - is online or not. Sometimes I just like to chitchat with certain players even if it has nothing to do with RPing with their characters in-game. Since I've been keeping CHAT and sometimes even QUESTION off, this makes it much more difficult to know when those people are around.

More than anything, I'd just like the option to have the 'Online'/who box removed completely if it's not going to update. I don't usually close my client between sessions and it's had the same online list for a few days now. If it does get coded to update (hopefully for MushClient as well as Mudlet) then this won't be a concern at all.

[Drayla]

I like this idea, but it seems the major complaint is not being able to see when certain specific people log in or off. Why not give us a list like the friends or enemies list that we can add people to that will tell us when they at least login. Everyone else would just not show up. In my opinion, this would satisfy everyone. If you don't want to see the messages, don't add anyone. If you want to see when certain people are on, add them to the list. If you want to see everyone coming and going, add every name you ever see.

[Rias]

What I'm leaning toward is having it so that if you have someone friended, and they also have you friended, you'll see the login notifications for each other (unless you have the LoginNotify option turned off, of course). So you can't, for instance, friend someone who stole from you that one time just so you can see them log in and close all your containers whenever they do. They'd have to have you friended as well in order for you to be able to see when they log in.

[TwistedAkai]

What I'm leaning toward is having it so that if you have someone friended, and they also have you friended, you'll see the login notifications for each other (unless you have the LoginNotify option turned off, of course). So you can't, for instance, friend someone who stole from you that one time just so you can see them log in and close all your containers whenever they do. They'd have to have you friended as well in order for you to be able to see when they log in.

Just want to say. I strongly approve of this.

[Kiyaani]

I strongly second that approval. Now, if only I didn't have so many alts...

[baerden]

I never liked being announced that I had joined the lands. And I really like this change!

This is a bit of a tangeant, so I dont really expect it to be discussed here but I thought I would throw it out since its somewhat related (in my mind).

I don't really like being on the who list either. I'm sure there are other character types such as thieves or no good dirty bs or private minded people other than Baerden who would appreciate the ability to log on anonymously. There have been times when a known thief was on and based on the who list everyone buttons up or starts accusing them if they do what their character is supposed to do.

I'd like the ability to toggle if we're viewable, and just display something to the effect that there are "X amount of players whom aren't visible" or some such.

[Ardor]

There have been times when a known thief was on and based on the who list everyone buttons up or starts accusing them if they do what their character is supposed to do.

Isn't the WHO list supposed to be OOC? Because that just seems like bad roleplay.

[Drayla]

Well, technically, the WHO list just shows who is actively present, not which characters are actually in the Lost Lands. So it would actually make sense for someone to start ranting and raving about Jaster going around snatching firestones from the not-so-innocent even if Jaster hasn't been on in over a week. IC, his charater is still somewhere doing something, he doesn't just *poof* from existance.

[Rias]

We plan on an anonymous option for the WHO list as well. While anonymous on WHO, you wouldn't be able to chat/question/tell.

[Jaster]

Nobody blames me unless they see me on the who list. Then I get blamed for everything. Who stole mum's freshly baked apple pie, set out to cool on the window seal? Who stole Kent's skinning knives? Who stole the cookies from the cookie jar? Who stole Lae's heart? My BaBy, WhO StOLE My bAbY?!!?! Answer: Jaster, if he's on the who list. I didn't actually do any of those things! (well... maybe a few of them..)

[TwistedAkai]

We plan on an anonymous option for the WHO list as well. While anonymous on WHO, you wouldn't be able to chat/question/tell.

Please make an exception to the question bit for Mentors when this does come up. They could simply be labeled as "A Mentor", or something similar, so they could answer questions without exposing themselves completely.

[Kent]

Overall, I don't like the removal of these login/logout messages.

Perhaps we could meet in the middle, and have only the message when they logout.

This way Jaster has a chance to log in and do his thing before people notice their pockets getting lighter; and when someone logs out or is disconnected, it will spare us the futile frustration of continuing to talk to them in their absence.

Also, in another mud I played, that mud knew right away if someone disconnected and provided everyone with the ooc message, Fredegar has lost link. Could we get that here too, please?

Cheers.

[Jaster]

Hey, it's business as usual for me. Even when people KNOW I'm around, they still forget to close things eventually. I just can't lose!

But that isn't the issue. The issue is that people OOCly know I'm the only PC online who would be stealing something, and so automatically blame me ICly (You ain't got nothin on me!). Now, I honestly don't give two hurls of manure about that. It's something I've learned to play with, and I never make a big deal about it (roll with it), but that's what is being illustrated in this thread and is the major reason some people here are pushing for the removal of login notifications and the who list or what have you.

[jilliana]

Even after reading this thread...I'm still digging the change. I've been finding it very fun to log in and see who's around and feel out the game before people actually realize I'm around and ambush my char about something or other.
Yes, it is a bit of a pain in the behind to not know when certain type log in, but eh, we can't have it all all the time.
Maybe it could be to where if a newbie logs in for the first few times, we know. I remember how nice it was to be welcomed into a game, even if I didn't play the game for a while after I created Jilliana.