Nether taint ideas

[Acarin]

Tainted beings and nethrim have very good intuitive control over nether and less scholarly knowledge about nether. I see the forced control by rooks as being less intuitive and therefore not as easily able to sense distruptions, etc. due to being a bit more analytical about the process.

[Lysse]

An ability to sense things specifically seems like it would require training. Though, that's just my opinion.

As for fear effects, it seems that (in my experiences at least) the Nethrim that cause fear effects are usually "undead", so it's perhaps some side effect of that. Or it could just be that humans that are merely tainted don't have enough 'Nether' in them to cause fear innately.

The Dwaedn Wyr get a fear roar. That, to my knowledge, involves channeling/invoking the Great Bear Spirit, a supremely powerful supernatural being. Compared to a lot of things, the idea of the wrath of the Great Bear falling upon you is probably pretty scary. That's likely why they receive a fear based guild ability like that.

[Nootau]

Tainted being are just that tainted, these are new instincts that they are not forged with so their control of them would be loose and pale compared to true Nethrim beings. I also apologize for being so vague in my last post concerning each of your original points, let me address them directly.

1) Nether creatures feed on blood because they feast on their souls, this is a short time limit on how fresh they can feed and cannot store these meals. While a Sorcerer can store these souls for later use and use them for sustenance similar to spectral Nether beings by recovering energy. Why would a nether creature be able to have a highlight of every being with a soul, which may include other specters seeing that Sorcerers can directly feed on them unlike most nether creatures, and not a Sorcerer? Rather than the Sorcerer having a vaguer understanding they lack an innate understanding but can understand the limits and understanding of nether more so than most Nethrim creatures.

2) Fear is not a innate aura but an action that Nethrim creatures inflict onto others. I do not see a reason why tainted being should gain this ability. Sorcerers have this ability currently though in a more advanced form, which seems to be the trend.

[Acarin]

Tainted being are just that tainted, these are new instincts that they are not forged with so their control of them would be loose and pale compared to true Nethrim beings. I also apologize for being so vague in my last post concerning each of your original points, let me address them directly.

1) Nether creatures feed on blood because they feast on their souls, this is a short time limit on how fresh they can feed and cannot store these meals. While a Sorcerer can store these souls for later use and use them for sustenance similar to spectral Nether beings by recovering energy. Why would a nether creature be able to have a highlight of every being with a soul, which may include other specters seeing that Sorcerers can directly feed on them unlike most nether creatures, and not a Sorcerer? Rather than the Sorcerer having a vaguer understanding they lack an innate understanding but can understand the limits and understanding of nether more so than most Nethrim creatures.

If you have a taint afflicted character, I'd recommend checking the effects command. It addresses your first point. Nether is easy to control in the first place and their innate ease of manipulate, while not necessarily the same as a true nethrim (although degree of taint does not scale this control up to my knowledge), allows even easier manipulation, control, and innate understanding of nether. While they are not forged of it, it is now integral to their existence and coexisting with them in their blood (and I would assume tissues as well unless nether has a low volume of distribution).

Rapidly reading and tracing back changes in nether would require INNATE talent and would not be something that would be easy to learn/develop in my mind. It would be a sensation and a particular way of processing/hard wiring. Such skills/instincts are not easily learned by practice, generally. Rooks don't use souls for sustenance (they use them externally to manipulate outside nether) nor are they required to aid other nether beings. Why would a sorceror have a highlight to every soul? They just harvest souls from corpses. They have no need to detect them in living things. If anything I could see nether vision new echolocation being the closest thing Rooks could develop to what I suggested (Crude echolocation can actually be trained somewhat. There's some blind people who do it).

2) Fear is not a innate aura but an action that Nethrim creatures inflict onto others. I do not see a reason why tainted being should gain this ability. Sorcerers have this ability currently though in a more advanced form, which seems to be the trend.

True. Sorcerors have this ability in a more advanced form. Nethrim creatures can inflict it. Why would a more minor version of this ability not be reasonable for tainted individuals. Especially one that effects, as a reactive spike, those that suddenly and magically sense a dark and evil presence coming from someone who appears perfectly normal. It seems logical to me.

[Nootau]

From your concept of not be easy, and would require innate talent makes little sense. It would be a study as everything else would. It being something learned and developed is nothing new, that is what different Abilities are for and modeled after depending on how deep into the chain it is and how much raw skills are needed to meet the requirements. Can you please link these readings that you have that would suggest these are things that require 'hardwiring' in a way that tainted beings are written into but a Sorcerer is not?

If you did not know, Sorcerers can consume souls to reinvigorate themselves even from the point of exhaustion to fully rested. Souls are simply a energy source, which is what incorporeal nether are made of purely. This use is in addition to using them as a fuel source for some of their abilities.

Now on the topic of living beings, I thought I addressed this. The sensing of souls would not be limited to the living, but anything that a soul is anchored within. Though you see the limits of a sorcerer being limited to crude reading, I see things differently that Nethrim beings have a crude control of nether while Sorcerers would have more control and refined applications of nether powers in comparison. Neither stance is fact, it is only fact once a Dev says so, and even then it is only a fact while the Dev wants it to be one..

Now on the comment of fear, some Nethrim creatures can inflict it, not all. I only commonly see this fear effect used by incorporeal Nethrim, more rarely in corporeal Nethrim, which a tainted being is a lesser state of. Maybe through refined training they could master such an ability but that sounds more of a special case rather than something that would be used by all tainted innately or even commonly.

[Acarin]

Another topic diverted. I'm moving along.

[Nootau]

Another topic diverted. I'm moving along.

o7

Safe travels and godspeed.

[Rias]

Honestly, would it really be that absurd/silly to render every stealth user's stealth skill useless to only a small handful of players? Apparently you and Rias believe that it would. I believe it would as well.

Glad we agree.

If it would be that ridiculous, then why is the existing equivalent mechanic implemented? That's equally silly but STILL THERE.

You clearly think something equivalent to this ridiculous mechanic is implemented, but you are incorrect. What you're assuming is a 90-99.99% chance is not. It's based on skills and rolls and factors that vary from character to character, with a baseline of 0 just like everything else. There are no set percentage chances. Stealth is not rendered useless by the mechanic, though it can certainly make it more difficult for affected players around other characters that have certain high skills and and other properties, just as it would around someone with a high perception skill.

Here's an anology: Stan has trained his sword skill to 9001 (OVER 9,000!!!!!!!) so he can slice up his enemies. Look, there's Mary, a girl he doesn't like! Watch out, Mary, your dodge skill is only 3! Oh no, is there any hope for Mary to fend off Stan's supreme sword skills? Oh thank goodness, Mary has been training her Shields skill, that's a relief (for her). Even though she has virtually no hope of dodging Stan's attacks, she is able to block them with her shield quite effectively. Way to go, Mary!

So then, why is it that my idea is silly, Rias?

Giving a 90-99.99% chance based on no skills would be pretty silly.

Nethrim have an obvious connection to nether. Nether is practically everywhere and interacts with living matter, correct? If that is the case, why is absurd that a nethrim/tainted could sense "lifeforce" (by sensing loss of environmental nether to organic matter, light, etc. and tracing the loss back to the source of elimination) anymore than a thaum user doing the same by sensing concentrations of nether (to which they are not at all attuned and have no logical mechanism to sense... THEY BURN IT AWAY).

I'm not sure what you mean by "lifeforce" - perhaps blood, or the soul? While nether certainly seems to like these things, that doesn't necessarily mean it has any extraordinary way to sense them beyond how it senses anything else. How it senses anything at all in the first place is quite the mystery, as a matter of fact. Does it somehow detect light? Heat? Sound? Some kind of echolocation-like effect similar to how the Nether Vision spell works? Maybe something completely alien and impossible to understand by we humans. It sure is fun to think about!

I happen to like the idea (although, again, it would be a major imbalance) and was honestly proposing it.

While it does sound like it could be a neat idea, that's now how it works in the world of CLOK.

[Rias]

why is absurd that a nethrim/tainted could sense "lifeforce" (by sensing loss of environmental nether to...

"... organic matter" - Is there some precedent for organic matter somehow disrupting environmental nether?

"...light" - With the exception of thaumaturges exuding halos and some extraordinary animals/insects/plants/fungi that have bioluminescent properties, "life" does not emit light.

"... etc." - ?

and tracing the loss back to the source of elimination

At best, this sounds like more of a "detect heat/active thaumaturgic energy/light" ability, which all player characters can already do with their innate senses of sight and touch.

[xavier]

just an attempt to explain why thaumaturgists can sense nether while not the other way around. Coming from a visually impaired player I think I have a fairly interesting outlook on this particular subject as light/nether could be with a little imagination turned into blind/sighted.
As a totally blind person I notice sound a ton more than any sighted person I've ever met. No contrary to popular belief this is not because my sense of hearing has gotten better as that is a myth in my opinion. I just happen to not have the distraction of sight in my person and thus pay a lot more attention to sound. Where as a person who has sight may see all the pretty sights but not hear the dude creeping up behind them.
Now someone who has a high degree of nether taint would be inundate, like the sighted person is with visual input, and thus without a lifetime's worth of training be able to turn all that input off and focus on the more subtle distinctions. As far as a thaumaturgist being able to sense nether taint, that is classic mythos as good has always been able to sense evil. the reverse is rarely seen as evil tends to be less worried about detecting and more reliant on destruction. I personally like the fact that not everything in this game is balanced, it adds realism.
I do not think your idea of modifying stealth rolls so that only a few individuals in the whole world could be able to sense you, perhaps a bit more bonus sure, but when you take away the chance that mister 'I'm a complete newb' is able to spot you cause you in theory stepped on the wrong cobblestone/stick/whatever it seems like you are trying to make yourself a perfect person at that particular skill/ability and this is not possible in real life by any stretch of the imagination. Even the greatest blacksmiths/leatherworking/thiefs/assassins/etc made mistakes from time to time, that's why people get caught.

[Acarin]

You clearly think something equivalent to this ridiculous mechanic is implemented, but you are incorrect. What you're assuming is a 90-99.99% chance is not. It's based on skills and rolls and factors that vary from character to character, with a baseline of 0 just like everything else. There are no set percentage chances. Stealth is not rendered useless by the mechanic, though it can certainly make it more difficult for affected players around other characters that have certain high skills and and other properties, just as it would around someone with a high perception skill.

No. It doesn't make it "more difficult." It makes it IMPOSSIBLE. I am spotted with no rt incurred regardless of whether I am already hidden in a room or moving in the room pratically every time seemingly without skills being factored in. There is no perception check for me to notice I've been seen (apparently it also has a nonchalance component). While you may have programmed it a certain way and think it is reasonable, in practical application it is not. Stealth already has quite a number of penalties associated with it. Yes, I realise stealth is a powerful ability and must be balanced. Rendering it useless is not the way. If people want to spot hidden people, they should train perception. Stealth is balanced against perception (although I would say not very well). It is certainly NOT balanced against thaumaturgy (the skills, rolls, and factors I assume you were referring to) and it's absurd that this comes into the picture.

How exactly are they pinpointing my spot? It makes no sense at all. Sensing evil and knowing the exact location of evil at all times are two different things entirely. Make them search with a normal perception check. Don't reveal who it is or their location. The way it stands right now, the ability is entirely broken.

Here's an anology: Stan has trained his sword skill to 9001 (OVER 9,000!!!!!!!) so he can slice up his enemies. Look, there's Mary, a girl he doesn't like! Watch out, Mary, your dodge skill is only 3! Oh no, is there any hope for Mary to fend off Stan's supreme sword skills? Oh thank goodness, Mary has been training her Shields skill, that's a relief (for her). Even though she has virtually no hope of dodging Stan's attacks, she is able to block them with her shield quite effectively. Way to go, Mary!

That has very little to do with the currect situation or mechanic. If Mary had a shield and the block roll for that shield was based on her herbalism skill, it would be more similar. It would be more comparable if that shield broke Stan's sword immediately when he tried to swing, rendering him incapable of even attempting to fight Mary.

I'm not sure what you mean by "lifeforce" - perhaps blood, or the soul? While nether certainly seems to like these things, that doesn't necessarily mean it has any extraordinary way to sense them beyond how it senses anything else. How it senses anything at all in the first place is quite the mystery, as a matter of fact. Does it somehow detect light? Heat? Sound? Some kind of echolocation-like effect similar to how the Nether Vision spell works? Maybe something completely alien and impossible to understand by we humans. It sure is fun to think about!

I wasn't really referring to the nether itself sensing something. Nether, as far as I understand, does not have a sensory system. That would be silly.

While it does sound like it could be a neat idea, that's now how it works in the world of CLOK.

I hope that's now how it works.

[Rias]

No. It doesn't make it "more difficult." It makes it IMPOSSIBLE.

I just snuck into and out of a room undetected multiple times while I was completely tainted and the bystander was well past the threshold of being granted this ability. Of course, the lower my associated skills are and the higher the bystander's, the harder it gets to sneak by undetected. Just like every other skill check.

I am spotted with no rt incurred regardless of whether I am already hidden in a room or moving in the room pratically every time

It doesn't take anyone roundtime to spot someone walking into or out of a room or performing other stealth actions. There are various abilities that allow for spotting people passively while entering a room under various specific conditions, and this is one of them.

seemingly without skills being factored in.

I can see how it might seem to you that skills aren't being factored in, but what you're really experiencing is a particular situation where you have a low chance to succeed. I've checked and double-checked, and skills are certainly being factored in. Remember that just because you have a hard time against the people you've encountered in this situation doesn't mean there aren't skill rolls going on. That'd be like complaining that dodge is broken and makes attacking people impossible because I tried attacking someone with more dodge skill than my attack and I frequently missed.

There is no perception check for me to notice I've been seen (apparently it also has a nonchalance component).

You've been sensed. People don't notice when they're sensed by Mummers' Mindsense either.

While you may have programmed it a certain way and think it is reasonable, in practical application it is not. Stealth already has quite a number of penalties associated with it. Yes, I realise stealth is a powerful ability and must be balanced. Rendering it useless is not the way.

Your particular situation is not every situation. Yes, anyone tainted is going to have a harder time sneaking past the particular people you've had trouble with. Anyone's going to have a harder time taking Spearhead on in melee combat. He has heaps of melee skills and nice associated guild abilities to compliment that. That doesn't mean melee is broken or impractically-implemented in Spearhead's favor. It means he has trained and chosen a guild that results in him being really good at melee.

I did not press a button that says, "Make stealth useless for tainted people." I would never do that. I really like stealth, and I really like the taint stuff. What I did was add an ability that gives certain people in certain rare circumstances additional protections against certain other people in certain other rare circumstances that use stealth, because it made sense to me. Stealth isn't the only skill to have some guild- or affliction-based abilities that provide extra advantages against it.

If people want to spot hidden people, they should train perception.

Uh huh. And people could easily say "If you want to kill people, you should train melee and a weapon, not some cheap alternate means of bypassing the normal melee calculations."

Stealth is balanced against perception (although I would say not very well). It is certainly NOT balanced against thaumaturgy (the skills, rolls, and factors I assume you were referring to) and it's absurd that this comes into the picture. How exactly are they pinpointing my spot? It makes no sense at all. Sensing evil and knowing the exact location of evil at all times are two different things entirely.

These people don't know the exact location of evil at all times. They get an extra chance to sense and locate heavily-tainted creatures. They're pinpointing your spot because they can sense your location. If you want to know how that "feels" to them you can ask them sometime. Like other affliction-related mechanics and things based on fantastical concepts rather than real-world ones, I don't feel the need to explain it in detail, in part because A) The details aren't fully understood by the denizens of the CLOK world and B) due to its fantastical nature, it's not completely explainable.

Make them search with a normal perception check.

"Make all melee attacks with a normal melee check, not stealth."
"Make all combat engagement moves with a normal engage/disengage check, not abilities that use entirely different skills and mechanics."
"Make druids forage with a normal herbalism check, none of this druidry stuff."
Why? There are several abilities, both guild-related and affliction-related, that change how certain mechanical situations work. Those are the really interesting abilities. It'd be a shame to make everyone do everything exactly the same way.

That has very little to do with the currect situation or mechanic. If Mary had a shield that's block roll was based on her herbalism skill, it would be more similar.

I don't see the parallel.

It would be more comparable if that shield broke Stan's sword immediately when he tried to swing, rendering him incapable of even attempting to fight Mary.

You're not incapable of attempting to sneak past these people (and you're not incapable of succeeding, either).

[Nootau]

I guess your travels were a short one, was the trip a pleasant one? If I am understanding Rias correctly the 'TL;DR' version of his answer to you is: What you are really suffering from is a mix of: Bad luck, PCs with higher Perception Scores than you are used to, and Environmental Penalties. The best advise would be, train more.

[Acarin]

I guess your travels were a short one, was the trip a pleasant one? If I am understanding Rias correctly the 'TL;DR' version of his answer to you is: What you are really suffering from is a mix of: Bad luck, PCs with higher Perception Scores than you are used to, and Environmental Penalties. The best advise would be, train more.

You are not understanding him correctly, as far as I understand. This "skill" (or rather benefit to simply being a church member and playing by church rules) uses thaumaturgy and possibly other factors. I don't think perception plays factors in. If it were perception, the answer would be more training. When considering thaumaturgy, probably one of the easiest skills to train, it would be near impossible to train enough to overcome this.

[Nootau]

If you think and feel that way then I guess your mind is set up, setting aside what may or may not. Being nether tainted as with any affliction carries bonuses as penalties. Seem 'weak vs thaumaturg users' is one of those penalties. Alpha is Alpha, expect: nerfs, buffs and mechanic changes, often and at times severely. Btw, just because one group has more advantage/disadvantages than another does not always show a bug that must be fixed, guilds and conditions are not balanced against.

[Acarin]

I just snuck into and out of a room undetected multiple times while I was completely tainted and the bystander was well past the threshold of being granted this ability. Of course, the lower my associated skills are and the higher the bystander's, the harder it gets to sneak by undetected. Just like every other skill check.

Glad to hear it's working as intended and that it's working for your tainted.

seemingly without skills being factored in
I can see how it might seem to you that skills aren't being factored in, but what you're really experiencing is a particular situation where you have a low chance to succeed. I've checked and double-checked, and skills are certainly being factored in. Remember that just because you have a hard time against the people you've encountered in this situation doesn't mean there aren't skill rolls going on. That'd be like complaining that dodge is broken and makes attacking people impossible because I tried attacking someone with more dodge skill than my attack and I frequently missed.

It's nothing like it at all really. I love the illogical analogies that are consistently made on these boards. Again, this is like saying the game is broken because I keep attacking someone with no dodge and 10000 fishing and the dodge roll is being based on fishing.

You've been sensed. People don't notice when they're sensed by Mummers' mindsense either.

Do mummers get to auto-find people also? I was under the impression that they simply knew that someone was in the room but didn't pinpoint their location.

Your particular situation is not every situation. Yes, anyone tainted is going to have a harder time sneaking past the particular people you've had trouble with. Anyone's going to have a harder time taking Spearhead on in melee combat. He has heaps of melee skills and nice associated guild abilities to compliment that. That doesn't mean melee is broken or impractically-implemented in Spearhead's favor. It means he has trained and chosen a guild that results in him being really good at melee.

You are correct. I am the only PC, to my knowledge, that this impacts. Therefore, you are simply breaking stealth for me.

Again, it's not an issue of it being harder. It's an issue of it being near impossible. My defense is my high stealth and I have to sacrifice a lot of things to use it effectively, as any stealth character does: no to light armor, no mount bonuses, an additional skill that must be trained entirely indepently of other combat skills (as a successful ambush to gain stealth skill does not provide challenge for melee/weapon skills), and I'm sure other things...

Stealth, unlike the abilities of someone who is trained for open combat has numerous effects that have built up to severely hinder it over time: wilderness penalties, paranoia effect, the new whispering mechanic (which does nothing but interfere with rp, in my perspective), armor stealth reductions. In addition, the stealth vs. perception check is already somewhat poor.

I have high stealth and primarily attacks REQUIRING stealth, like spearhead has high melee and heaps of melee skills. If you made his melee skills ineffective against all mummers (they can predict his attacks through esp!!!) and checked them against something ridiculous like logging or mining, I'm sure he'd be speaking up as well. I spent a lot of time training and working on stealth and all of my abilities. This has made it a complete waste of time.

I did not press a button that says, "Make stealth useless for tainted people." I would never do that. I really like stealth, and I really like the taint stuff. What I did was add an ability that gives certain people in certain rare circumstances additional protections against certain other people in certain other rare circumstances that use stealth, because it made sense to me. Stealth isn't the only skill to have some guild- or affliction-based abilities that provide extra advantages against it.

You didn't press a button. You coded a button and released it. I know you like stealth and tainted stuff and all that, but YOU HAVE MADE STEALTH USELESS TO TAINTED PEOPLE. IT IS NO LONGER ENTERTAINING FOR ME TO PLAY SINCE MY CHARACTER'S RP IS HEAVILY INFLUENCED BY HATRED TOWARDS THE CHURCH. I CAN NO LONGER PLAY IF I HAVE TO COMPLETELY CHANGE MY RP AS I CANNOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO MOVE INTO AN AREA WITH A CHURCH MEMBER. THAT MAKES THE GAME VERY POINTLESS FOR ME AND NOT FUN.

Uh huh. And people could easily say "If you want to kill people, you should train melee and a weapon, not some cheap alternate means of bypassing the normal melee calculations."

This isn't even remotely similar. There are numerous combat systems and methods of attack. There have been since I started playing. They are mostly reasonable and valid and based on skills that are reasonable and should apply to that particular form of combat. THAUMATURGY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PERCEPTION. It's ridiculous.

These people don't know the exact location of evil at all times. They get an extra chance to sense and locate heavily-tainted creatures. They're pinpointing your spot because they can sense your location. If you want to know how that "feels" to them you can ask them sometime. Like other affliction-related mechanics and things based on fantastical concepts rather than real-world ones, I don't feel the need to explain it in detail, in part because A) The details aren't fully understood by the denizens of the CLOK world and B) due to its fantastical nature, it's not completely explainable.

So the exact place I'm standing just beams into their mind. They don't have to look. They just know! Makes perfect sense to me.

"Make all melee attacks with a normal melee check, not stealth."
"Make all combat engagement moves with a normal engage/disengage check, not abilities that use entirely different skills and mechanics."
"Make druids forage with a normal herbalism check, none of this druidry stuff."
Why? There are several abilities, both guild-related and affliction-related, that change how certain mechanical situations work. Those are the really interesting abilities. It'd be a shame to make everyone do everything exactly the same way.

In this particular case, I would ask that you make them do things exactly the same way. None of these other alternate checks have such a profound effect.

I don't see the parallel.

Understood. That is what is making things difficult.

You're not incapable of attempting to sneak past these people (and you're not incapable of succeeding, either).

Only practically incapable, not mechanically. Understood. It's possible, I just won't.

---Rias, I've been trying to find you to discuss this mechanic with you but I seem to always miss you. I'll log on a few more times to check for you, but I've reached a level of frustration about this particular mechanic that makes it near impossible to play this game anymore.---

That being said, I think I may stop playing for at least a very long while. It's been really great playing with all of you and I hope the numerous evil acts I've committed have been met with some level of understanding and even enjoyment. I do hope this won't put people off from playing evil characters. They can be quite rewarding.

I've had many good times with the players here. I'll miss the rp and the conversations I've had with most of you! I'd like to give a special shout out to Spearhead, Jaster, Gad, Kiyaani, and Zeel for all the good times! I hope we meet again. Also to Alexander (respect, sir!),Bryce, River and Lemuel! It's been fun even if our interactions haven't always been completely positive. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few but... Keep up the awesomeness.

[Nootau]

Acarin, can you offer proof in the form of logs or behind the scenes code to show that any enemies of nether can 'auto-find' a hidden tainted person?

Also talking in caps lock makes you seem more than just a little childish, please stop.

[Rias]

It's nothing like it at all really. I love the illogical analogies that are consistently made on these boards. Again, this is like saying the game is broken because I keep attacking someone with no dodge and 10000 fishing and the dodge roll is being based on fishing.

<sarcasm>Thanks for setting me straight on how my made-up fantasy world metaphysics work.</sarcasm> This "purity" mechanic is definitely related to sensing taint and nether. That you don't understand or accept that doesn't mean it's illogical any more than not understanding how druidry can make a tiny root into a massive lashing root that can bind a bison in place means that it shouldn't work. Welcome to the fantasy aspects of CLOK.

Again, it's not an issue of it being harder. It's an issue of it being near impossible. My defense is my high stealth and I have to sacrifice a lot of things to use it effectively

A single skill won't suffice in every case? Sometimes different approaches or tactics must taken depending on the situation and people involved? Gasp!

If you made his melee skills ineffective against all mummers (they can predict his attacks through esp!!!) and checked them against something ridiculous like logging or mining, I'm sure he'd be speaking up as well.

As well he should. It should be based on a related skill, probably Channeling.

I spent a lot of time training and working on stealth and all of my abilities. This has made it a complete waste of time.

If you find your game experience completely worthless because you can't reliably use stealth against a very low fraction of the game's population due to their abilities and high skills, I don't know what to tell you.

YOU HAVE MADE STEALTH USELESS TO TAINTED PEOPLE. IT IS NO LONGER ENTERTAINING FOR ME TO PLAY SINCE MY CHARACTER'S RP IS HEAVILY INFLUENCED BY HATRED TOWARDS THE CHURCH. I CAN NO LONGER PLAY IF I HAVE TO COMPLETELY CHANGE MY RP AS I CANNOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO MOVE INTO AN AREA WITH A CHURCH MEMBER. THAT MAKES THE GAME VERY POINTLESS FOR ME AND NOT FUN.

This is not a universal Church member ability. Its availability is not based on time played or skills, or anything like that. The two monks with the highest thaumaturgy skill levels, who have been around for a very long time, don't have this ability. It's extremely rare, and unlikely to be enjoyed by many others.

THAUMATURGY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PERCEPTION.

This seems to be one of your biggest concerns regarding this whole issue, and I've tried to clarify. This sensing of nether (and taint) isn't based on the five basic senses (or six, if you count the vague references to a "possible sixth sense") that the Perception skill encompasses. Additionally, this ability isn't strictly thaumaturgy-based. Thaumaturgy just helps it be more effective.

benefit to simply being a church member and playing by church rules

I don't know that I'd say "simply", considering how much trouble people seem to have with this.

[Rias]

I just wanted to add that this mechanic is still being adjusted and tweaked (as is most everything else in the game at this stage). I still do stand firmly by all the things I've said on the subject thus far.