Yeah, normally I would take up a side craft but the RP is that my character isn't very bright, or has the longest attention span. I planned on not having a ton of money but the riln from carriers is just too low and the hounds and laborers are a bit too difficult.
Though when you put it like that it makes more than enough sense, i'll just get over it until i'm stronger.
Group Hunting and Challenge
The system is meant to encourage people to go for critters their own skill level, or to seek out a challenge and better yet, to group up and go after something tougher.
If you're going after something your own size, you're basically seeing no change to what it was like prior to the changes.
The skill gains challenge system does exactly the same thing, so these loot updates mirror that overall philosophy. You aren't and shouldn't be getting very good skill gains on easy mobs, just as unique loot will be less likely to be found.
If you're able to smash through mobs 10x faster than someone the same skill level as the mobs? That certainly calls for some balancing, otherwise people would not have any reason at all to go after something their own size.
Call it a punishment if you will, but it's very much intended.
"Farming" low level mobs is pretty much exactly what we want to discourage. Whether for skill gains, or for riln. There's also a great many other ways in game to make money.
If you're going after something your own size, you're basically seeing no change to what it was like prior to the changes.
The skill gains challenge system does exactly the same thing, so these loot updates mirror that overall philosophy. You aren't and shouldn't be getting very good skill gains on easy mobs, just as unique loot will be less likely to be found.
If you're able to smash through mobs 10x faster than someone the same skill level as the mobs? That certainly calls for some balancing, otherwise people would not have any reason at all to go after something their own size.
Call it a punishment if you will, but it's very much intended.
"Farming" low level mobs is pretty much exactly what we want to discourage. Whether for skill gains, or for riln. There's also a great many other ways in game to make money.
No longer GMing for CLOK.
How is it that I abuse the system if I have worked up skill enough to kill critters because I can get past their defense? That is the system. The higher your skill the more likely you will hit something with lesser skill. If I have the ability to smash through mobs it is because I have paid the riln and trained to do so. It has taken me time to get to where I am at.
So what if I go for critters my own size? Why do you feel I need to be "encouraged" to move on? What already balances the system is that I gain no skill from lesser skilled critters.
If you want to prevent farming then set the loot to what is apporpriate for that mob.
So what if I go for critters my own size? Why do you feel I need to be "encouraged" to move on? What already balances the system is that I gain no skill from lesser skilled critters.
If you want to prevent farming then set the loot to what is apporpriate for that mob.
Last edited by Gad on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stop holding my character hostage.
-
KianTheArcher
- Member
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:01 am
For starters, it's not fair to newer characters if you outfarm them. Similarly, if you're farming mobs in an area, more mobs will spawn. That could potentially lead to the lower skilled people getting killed from being swarmed from mobs.
If you want to make a lot of riln, the various trade skills are great for it, especially farming.
If you want to make a lot of riln, the various trade skills are great for it, especially farming.
Morgoth, I cried
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate
[quote=KianTheArcher]For starters, it's not fair to newer characters if you outfarm them. [/quote]
I don't understand this. What does "outfarming" newer characters mean and why exactly is it unfair. Also, even if more critters are spawning, he's going through them so quickly that it should impact another characters survivability.
I also really doubt Gad is farming carriers... Once someone gets to what Gad is likely farming (even hunting down) I wouldn't call them new...
I don't understand this. What does "outfarming" newer characters mean and why exactly is it unfair. Also, even if more critters are spawning, he's going through them so quickly that it should impact another characters survivability.
I also really doubt Gad is farming carriers... Once someone gets to what Gad is likely farming (even hunting down) I wouldn't call them new...
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
Gad, the game is designed to encourage you to move to stuff your own size. If you got the same loot and same skill gains off lower critters then why would anyone ever fight something more difficult at all, or group up?
That wouldn't make any sense at all.
You're perfectly welcome to farm lower level stuff, however, the consequence is a lower chance for unique loot and lower to no skill gains.
It's not complicated and it is perfectly logical.
That wouldn't make any sense at all.
You're perfectly welcome to farm lower level stuff, however, the consequence is a lower chance for unique loot and lower to no skill gains.
It's not complicated and it is perfectly logical.
No longer GMing for CLOK.
[quote=Landion]Gad, the game is designed to encourage you to move to stuff your own size. If you got the same loot and same skill gains off lower critters then why would anyone ever fight something more difficult at all, or group up?
That wouldn't make any sense at all.
You're perfectly welcome to farm lower level stuff, however, the consequence is a lower chance for unique loot and lower to no skill gains.
It's not complicated and it is perfectly logical.[/quote]
Landion, I agree with you to some extent, however the issue I see with this is the same issue that plagues many other aspects of the game: It's a matter of how what is lower, equal, and a challenge is considered. The current system requires that all of our main combat skills remain approximately equal or we are at a rather severe disadvantage. I know Kian would say that he keeps all of his skills equal (as this has been posted before), but this is not always feasible and should not be a requirement for this determination.
What I'm trying to say is that what the game sometimes calls a challenge could be considered next to impossible for some. What the game considers equal might be a challenge... and what the game considers lower might in reality be "equal" when all things are considered.
Since we have so much freedom in how we grow, I think that a lot of these challenge evaluations and their incorporation at every point have considerable potential to detract from gameplay and result in frustration. I understand why they are warranted, but the method of determination I think still needs work. If this was a system that said "penalties if the critter is on average (of all combat skills taken together) 5x weaker" then I can see that. But I have a feeling that is not really how things are being calculated.
I really mean this to be constructive, so please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not at all trying to complain, I just think that the challenge system as a whole needs considerable adjustments and that this loot system is likely to carry the same drawbacks if based on currently existing challenge determinations.
That wouldn't make any sense at all.
You're perfectly welcome to farm lower level stuff, however, the consequence is a lower chance for unique loot and lower to no skill gains.
It's not complicated and it is perfectly logical.[/quote]
Landion, I agree with you to some extent, however the issue I see with this is the same issue that plagues many other aspects of the game: It's a matter of how what is lower, equal, and a challenge is considered. The current system requires that all of our main combat skills remain approximately equal or we are at a rather severe disadvantage. I know Kian would say that he keeps all of his skills equal (as this has been posted before), but this is not always feasible and should not be a requirement for this determination.
What I'm trying to say is that what the game sometimes calls a challenge could be considered next to impossible for some. What the game considers equal might be a challenge... and what the game considers lower might in reality be "equal" when all things are considered.
Since we have so much freedom in how we grow, I think that a lot of these challenge evaluations and their incorporation at every point have considerable potential to detract from gameplay and result in frustration. I understand why they are warranted, but the method of determination I think still needs work. If this was a system that said "penalties if the critter is on average (of all combat skills taken together) 5x weaker" then I can see that. But I have a feeling that is not really how things are being calculated.
I really mean this to be constructive, so please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not at all trying to complain, I just think that the challenge system as a whole needs considerable adjustments and that this loot system is likely to carry the same drawbacks if based on currently existing challenge determinations.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
[quote=Landion]
It's not complicated and it is perfectly logical.[/quote]
How exactly is it perfectly logical that something will have an average of, say, 150 riln when player A kills it but only an average of 50 riln when player B kills it? It might be logical in your mind with extraneous details added in, but going just on that basic premise it makes no sense.
Personally I think that limiting the bonus of challenging combat to a higher chance of unique loot/chests and leaving their baseline loot alone would be a better way to go about it.
It's not complicated and it is perfectly logical.[/quote]
How exactly is it perfectly logical that something will have an average of, say, 150 riln when player A kills it but only an average of 50 riln when player B kills it? It might be logical in your mind with extraneous details added in, but going just on that basic premise it makes no sense.
Personally I think that limiting the bonus of challenging combat to a higher chance of unique loot/chests and leaving their baseline loot alone would be a better way to go about it.
Mechanics have now been updated to include the riln critters drop. This is based on the same group and challenge calculations.
This is a game, and a game needs logical balancing. In real life you're not going to be able to become infinitely more skilled with using a sword to the point that you seem to have super-human speed and can kill hundreds of infested people for their money. Where this can happen in CLOK, however, mechanics like this become necessary.
A more powerful character will be able to kill stuff much faster, and so lowering the riln provided is a necessary balancing factor, along with the necessary encouragement to go after something your own size and to group up.
Otherwise you'd get more riln in a shorter amount of time, than if you were fighting something your size, or that is challenging. And again, we want to discourage that, while providing people an actual reward for taking a risk instead of just grinding day and night on something risk-free.
Again:
- We do not want to reward people for underhunting and gaining in a risk-free way. To balance this, it requires balancing consequences.
- We want to reward people for grouping up, and for going after challenging things.
And in regard to Acarin's formula concerns: We are always tweaking formulas and adjusting to make things better until we're satisfied, that's just part of the alpha CLOK experience.
This is a game, and a game needs logical balancing. In real life you're not going to be able to become infinitely more skilled with using a sword to the point that you seem to have super-human speed and can kill hundreds of infested people for their money. Where this can happen in CLOK, however, mechanics like this become necessary.
A more powerful character will be able to kill stuff much faster, and so lowering the riln provided is a necessary balancing factor, along with the necessary encouragement to go after something your own size and to group up.
Otherwise you'd get more riln in a shorter amount of time, than if you were fighting something your size, or that is challenging. And again, we want to discourage that, while providing people an actual reward for taking a risk instead of just grinding day and night on something risk-free.
Again:
- We do not want to reward people for underhunting and gaining in a risk-free way. To balance this, it requires balancing consequences.
- We want to reward people for grouping up, and for going after challenging things.
And in regard to Acarin's formula concerns: We are always tweaking formulas and adjusting to make things better until we're satisfied, that's just part of the alpha CLOK experience.
No longer GMing for CLOK.
-
KianTheArcher
- Member
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:01 am
[quote=Acarin]
I don't understand this. What does "outfarming" newer characters mean and why exactly is it unfair. Also, even if more critters are spawning, he's going through them so quickly that it should impact another characters survivability.
I also really doubt Gad is farming carriers... Once someone gets to what Gad is likely farming (even hunting down) I wouldn't call them new...[/quote]
I'm talking in general, versus targeting Gad specifically. I was simply replying to Gad.
Secondly, it's commonplace on some muds for areas to spawn more mobs based on the number of PCs in the area. More people in the area could trigger more mobs to spawn, which could overrun a character lower in skills than the PC in question. It might be different on Clok, but in my experiences it seems like more mobs spawn when more people are present.
[quote=Acarin]I know Kian would say that he keeps all of his skills equal (as this has been posted before), but this is not always feasible and should not be a requirement for this determination.[/quote]
Typically, you only need to keep three skills in range of each other. Melee, a weapon (brawling included), and dodge or (in the case of ranged characters) marksmanship, a ranged weapon, and dodge. As long as these three skills are fairly close to one another, training and fighting against mobs within your skill level typically shouldn't be a problem. That isn't that unreasonable of a thing to expect person to do. If you get really good at stabbing things with a sword but neglect to practice overall combat (IE melee) and dodging blows, you might kill something if you hit it quickly enough, but you'll be very vulnerable.
I don't understand this. What does "outfarming" newer characters mean and why exactly is it unfair. Also, even if more critters are spawning, he's going through them so quickly that it should impact another characters survivability.
I also really doubt Gad is farming carriers... Once someone gets to what Gad is likely farming (even hunting down) I wouldn't call them new...[/quote]
I'm talking in general, versus targeting Gad specifically. I was simply replying to Gad.
Secondly, it's commonplace on some muds for areas to spawn more mobs based on the number of PCs in the area. More people in the area could trigger more mobs to spawn, which could overrun a character lower in skills than the PC in question. It might be different on Clok, but in my experiences it seems like more mobs spawn when more people are present.
[quote=Acarin]I know Kian would say that he keeps all of his skills equal (as this has been posted before), but this is not always feasible and should not be a requirement for this determination.[/quote]
Typically, you only need to keep three skills in range of each other. Melee, a weapon (brawling included), and dodge or (in the case of ranged characters) marksmanship, a ranged weapon, and dodge. As long as these three skills are fairly close to one another, training and fighting against mobs within your skill level typically shouldn't be a problem. That isn't that unreasonable of a thing to expect person to do. If you get really good at stabbing things with a sword but neglect to practice overall combat (IE melee) and dodging blows, you might kill something if you hit it quickly enough, but you'll be very vulnerable.
Morgoth, I cried
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate
[quote=KianTheArcher]I'm talking in general, versus targeting Gad specifically. I was simply replying to Gad.
Secondly, it's commonplace on some muds for areas to spawn more mobs based on the number of PCs in the area. More people in the area could trigger more mobs to spawn, which could overrun a character lower in skills than the PC in question. It might be different on Clok, but in my experiences it seems like more mobs spawn when more people are present.[/quote]
I understand this, as you stated it before and I've noticed it as well, but one should expect a certain amount of risk when hunting and run when necessary. I'm just saying that I don't think this should be a factor in that type of decision.
Landion has stated far more persuasive arguments (balance is needed) although it really does depend on how it's implemented.... I have to say that I don't entirely believe that hunting infested poachers at an equal level would not net you considerably more than hunting carriers in the same time frame just because you could kill the carriers faster.
[quote=KianTheArcher]Typically, you only need to keep three skills in range of each other. Melee, a weapon (brawling included), and dodge or (in the case of ranged characters) marksmanship, a ranged weapon, and dodge. As long as these three skills are fairly close to one another, training and fighting against mobs within your skill level typically shouldn't be a problem. That isn't that unreasonable of a thing to expect person to do. If you get really good at stabbing things with a sword but neglect to practice overall combat (IE melee) and dodging blows, you might kill something if you hit it quickly enough, but you'll be very vulnerable.[/quote]
I would actually disagree with you.
First, I don't think melee is actually an important skill to keep at the level of the others (at least at the upper levels). This is because the contribution to each roll is small compared to the bonus provided by dodge and a weapon/casting skill, although it does impact all aspects of combat and seems to be the determining factor for changing positions if necessary.
Although your statement may be true up to about skills of 400 or so, it rapidly changes as the "challenges" get harder:
As an example, I may need to have brawling, dodging, stealth, and channeling (and melee if you think that is necessary) all at the same level, for example, in order to fight basilisks (yes, I am being sent to the desert of desolation for tasks). You are thinking primarily for your playstyle however there are additional factors to consider including:
Stealth: some classes have far lower overall damage output from the open or are about as effective as traders when revealed. As I can reliably see someone (Jaster) with approximately 1500 stealth with my meager 700 (approximate) perception, I assume this applies to critters as well. In order to utilize this in combat with any reliability (and this is a form of defense for those of us in light armor), I must keep this skill considerably higher than the "challenging" opponent's perception.
Channeling/Whatever mental skill determines basilisk stare rolls: Who would think to keep this equal? Its not on your list. If not high enough (or whatever skill determines this), you spend most of your time cowering on the ground getting poisoned and smacked around.
Perception: What if this challenging opponent hides? Who keeps this equal?
Dodging, melee, weapon/markmanship/whatever raw channel are not the only factors to consider. What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of other skills that may be necessary depending on how you play, your guild, and your opponent. These don't factor into challenge calculations, not do enemy abilities other than raw rolls. 1 high skill and 1 0 skill does not mean you can handle an enemy with stats higher than your highest skill. It can quickly go from challenge to downright frustrating. I'm not saying this is always the case but it can be.
Maybe I have a biased view from having to learn a new skill set after changes classes (and having over a 1000 difference in my skills to begin with), but I've seen how difficult this can be. Just because you've never experienced it doesn't mean that others won't or it isn't an issue.
Skills advance at different rates. I don't see why we should be required to keep everything perfectly equal to be effective. I'm not trying to say the challenge system shouldn't be there, but it definitely needs tweaked. Hopefully that will come with time as this is just alpha. Hope that clarifies my stance a bit. I'm not disagreeing with Landion here, either. I'm simply stating my rationale for why I think the challenge system needs work.
Secondly, it's commonplace on some muds for areas to spawn more mobs based on the number of PCs in the area. More people in the area could trigger more mobs to spawn, which could overrun a character lower in skills than the PC in question. It might be different on Clok, but in my experiences it seems like more mobs spawn when more people are present.[/quote]
I understand this, as you stated it before and I've noticed it as well, but one should expect a certain amount of risk when hunting and run when necessary. I'm just saying that I don't think this should be a factor in that type of decision.
Landion has stated far more persuasive arguments (balance is needed) although it really does depend on how it's implemented.... I have to say that I don't entirely believe that hunting infested poachers at an equal level would not net you considerably more than hunting carriers in the same time frame just because you could kill the carriers faster.
[quote=KianTheArcher]Typically, you only need to keep three skills in range of each other. Melee, a weapon (brawling included), and dodge or (in the case of ranged characters) marksmanship, a ranged weapon, and dodge. As long as these three skills are fairly close to one another, training and fighting against mobs within your skill level typically shouldn't be a problem. That isn't that unreasonable of a thing to expect person to do. If you get really good at stabbing things with a sword but neglect to practice overall combat (IE melee) and dodging blows, you might kill something if you hit it quickly enough, but you'll be very vulnerable.[/quote]
I would actually disagree with you.
First, I don't think melee is actually an important skill to keep at the level of the others (at least at the upper levels). This is because the contribution to each roll is small compared to the bonus provided by dodge and a weapon/casting skill, although it does impact all aspects of combat and seems to be the determining factor for changing positions if necessary.
Although your statement may be true up to about skills of 400 or so, it rapidly changes as the "challenges" get harder:
As an example, I may need to have brawling, dodging, stealth, and channeling (and melee if you think that is necessary) all at the same level, for example, in order to fight basilisks (yes, I am being sent to the desert of desolation for tasks). You are thinking primarily for your playstyle however there are additional factors to consider including:
Stealth: some classes have far lower overall damage output from the open or are about as effective as traders when revealed. As I can reliably see someone (Jaster) with approximately 1500 stealth with my meager 700 (approximate) perception, I assume this applies to critters as well. In order to utilize this in combat with any reliability (and this is a form of defense for those of us in light armor), I must keep this skill considerably higher than the "challenging" opponent's perception.
Channeling/Whatever mental skill determines basilisk stare rolls: Who would think to keep this equal? Its not on your list. If not high enough (or whatever skill determines this), you spend most of your time cowering on the ground getting poisoned and smacked around.
Perception: What if this challenging opponent hides? Who keeps this equal?
Dodging, melee, weapon/markmanship/whatever raw channel are not the only factors to consider. What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of other skills that may be necessary depending on how you play, your guild, and your opponent. These don't factor into challenge calculations, not do enemy abilities other than raw rolls. 1 high skill and 1 0 skill does not mean you can handle an enemy with stats higher than your highest skill. It can quickly go from challenge to downright frustrating. I'm not saying this is always the case but it can be.
Maybe I have a biased view from having to learn a new skill set after changes classes (and having over a 1000 difference in my skills to begin with), but I've seen how difficult this can be. Just because you've never experienced it doesn't mean that others won't or it isn't an issue.
Skills advance at different rates. I don't see why we should be required to keep everything perfectly equal to be effective. I'm not trying to say the challenge system shouldn't be there, but it definitely needs tweaked. Hopefully that will come with time as this is just alpha. Hope that clarifies my stance a bit. I'm not disagreeing with Landion here, either. I'm simply stating my rationale for why I think the challenge system needs work.
Last edited by Acarin on Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
I do get what you're saying regarding the different styles, Acarin.
Like I've said, we'll be adjusting as deemed necessary.
Your situation was kind of a unique case, in that you basically ended up leveling up some entirely new skills for your class from nothing, and learn a new style of play in the process. But that doesn't mean that the code can't be a bit more detailed in how it calculates this sort of thing.
Like I've said, we'll be adjusting as deemed necessary.
Your situation was kind of a unique case, in that you basically ended up leveling up some entirely new skills for your class from nothing, and learn a new style of play in the process. But that doesn't mean that the code can't be a bit more detailed in how it calculates this sort of thing.
No longer GMing for CLOK.
Thanks Landion. I appreciate your consideration. I know I was a rather special case, but I could see this happening to others as well (although probably to a lesser degree).
This may have happened to others with dodge, for example, as well... since dodge used to be much more difficult to get significant gain in.
Skills increase at different rates. Stealth can be harder to get than a weapon skill for instance... perception even harder. If someone doesn't take the time to learn how these things are determined and doesn't understand from the start that everything needs to be equal, or does their math wrong, or wants to spend their riln training one thing in particular, they may end up struggling to be feasible for their challenge level.
I have confidence that you guys will manage to work out a better implementation over time.
This may have happened to others with dodge, for example, as well... since dodge used to be much more difficult to get significant gain in.
Skills increase at different rates. Stealth can be harder to get than a weapon skill for instance... perception even harder. If someone doesn't take the time to learn how these things are determined and doesn't understand from the start that everything needs to be equal, or does their math wrong, or wants to spend their riln training one thing in particular, they may end up struggling to be feasible for their challenge level.
I have confidence that you guys will manage to work out a better implementation over time.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
Does Channeling, Perception or Stealth count towards the effective Challenge rating of a player?
Doesn't Melee drastically effect all physical combat rolls akin to how Marksmanship effects all ranged combat rolls making it important?
Dodge is rather easy to train.. Why do you say it is hard to train that?
Doesn't Melee drastically effect all physical combat rolls akin to how Marksmanship effects all ranged combat rolls making it important?
Dodge is rather easy to train.. Why do you say it is hard to train that?
The elements are slaves to no being. One must learn to ask for their aid, the elements offer power to the humble. This is why no one is truly a master yet everyone is a student..
~The Apprentice of the Elements
~The Apprentice of the Elements
[quote=Nootau]Does Channeling, Perception or Stealth count towards the effective Challenge rating of a player?
Doesn't Melee drastically effect all physical combat rolls akin to how Marksmanship effects all ranged combat rolls making it important?
Dodge is rather easy to train.. Why do you say it is hard to train that?[/quote]
I don't think any of those currently apply to the challenge roll (for treasure or tasks), but depending on your combat style they can become very important as far as evaluating what actually IS a challenge.
Melee has an impact for a physical rolls. As an example, I have around 1000 melee. I can swing an axe at about 300 or 400, but my brawling roll is closer to 2000. Compared to the actual combat skill, it's contribution to the roll is relatively minor.
Dodge used to be a lot harder to train than it is now. I am referring to that. It was adjusted (possibly before you started)
Doesn't Melee drastically effect all physical combat rolls akin to how Marksmanship effects all ranged combat rolls making it important?
Dodge is rather easy to train.. Why do you say it is hard to train that?[/quote]
I don't think any of those currently apply to the challenge roll (for treasure or tasks), but depending on your combat style they can become very important as far as evaluating what actually IS a challenge.
Melee has an impact for a physical rolls. As an example, I have around 1000 melee. I can swing an axe at about 300 or 400, but my brawling roll is closer to 2000. Compared to the actual combat skill, it's contribution to the roll is relatively minor.
Dodge used to be a lot harder to train than it is now. I am referring to that. It was adjusted (possibly before you started)
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
Your melee is so low but the percentage of its roll of still the same. Once you train your melee to match your brawl you will notice a vast improvement without changing your challenge rating that much.
It has never been trouble for me to train, in fact it is harder to train dodge now then before, same with perception. Training about 25 ranks per outing under the old training system...
It has never been trouble for me to train, in fact it is harder to train dodge now then before, same with perception. Training about 25 ranks per outing under the old training system...
The elements are slaves to no being. One must learn to ask for their aid, the elements offer power to the humble. This is why no one is truly a master yet everyone is a student..
~The Apprentice of the Elements
~The Apprentice of the Elements
[quote=Nootau]Your melee is so low but the percentage of its roll of still the same. Once you train your melee to match your brawl you will notice a vast improvement without changing your challenge rating that much.
It has never been trouble for me to train, in fact it is harder to train dodge now then before, same with perception. Training about 25 ranks per outing under the old training system...[/quote]
1) My melee is actually relatively close to my brawling but thank you.
2) Dodge skill gains were raised at some point. They are higher now than they were before. I'm not referring to the addition of challenge to the roll (which is why you were having better gains before). I'm referring to the initial increase in skill gains which happened before the challenge system implementation.
It has never been trouble for me to train, in fact it is harder to train dodge now then before, same with perception. Training about 25 ranks per outing under the old training system...[/quote]
1) My melee is actually relatively close to my brawling but thank you.
2) Dodge skill gains were raised at some point. They are higher now than they were before. I'm not referring to the addition of challenge to the roll (which is why you were having better gains before). I'm referring to the initial increase in skill gains which happened before the challenge system implementation.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
1) So with a melee of 1000 and a brawl of 1000 you have a Brawl roll of 2000? I need to know before I start making calculations.
2) I was as well. I trained dodge to 500 on my templar over the first week I was playing him at carriers and hounds(the other skills were only 200 but meh). This templar was back in July of 2011, was this before or after the change.
2) I was as well. I trained dodge to 500 on my templar over the first week I was playing him at carriers and hounds(the other skills were only 200 but meh). This templar was back in July of 2011, was this before or after the change.
The elements are slaves to no being. One must learn to ask for their aid, the elements offer power to the humble. This is why no one is truly a master yet everyone is a student..
~The Apprentice of the Elements
~The Apprentice of the Elements
[quote=Nootau]1) So with a melee of 1000 and a brawl of 1000 you have a Brawl roll of 2000? I need to know before I start making calculations.
2) I was as well. I trained dodge to 500 on my templar over the first week I was playing him at carriers and hounds(the other skills were only 200 but meh). This templar was back in July of 2011, was this before or after the change.[/quote]
1) I prefer not to give out my exact skills, but you're probably able to do the calculations with one of your own characters. That being said, my melee and brawl are both significantly higher than the figures you have posted. I remember reading somewhere that 0.5xmelee ranks went to attack and defense but I might not be remembering correctly or this may have been adjusted.
2) Don't remember when the change was. Not going to bother looking for it as it's missing the point entirely. Feel free to search for the dates if you care enough.
2) I was as well. I trained dodge to 500 on my templar over the first week I was playing him at carriers and hounds(the other skills were only 200 but meh). This templar was back in July of 2011, was this before or after the change.[/quote]
1) I prefer not to give out my exact skills, but you're probably able to do the calculations with one of your own characters. That being said, my melee and brawl are both significantly higher than the figures you have posted. I remember reading somewhere that 0.5xmelee ranks went to attack and defense but I might not be remembering correctly or this may have been adjusted.
2) Don't remember when the change was. Not going to bother looking for it as it's missing the point entirely. Feel free to search for the dates if you care enough.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.
The arguement is that skilled players are going to recieve less loot against critters that are less skilled than them. If carriers drop 10-15 riln but I am so skilled against them will I only get 5-8 riln? I think that is unfair to me as a skilled player.
Stop brining up professions because that is not what we are talking about. I know I will not make a wealthy amount of riln farming critters.
I am told it is under the guise of being encouraged to move on. My encouragement to move on is to gain more skill. Again, that is not what we are talking about.
If I am going up against less skilled critters why should I recieve less loot? If carriers drop 10-15 riln why should I not recieve that for killing one?
Stop brining up professions because that is not what we are talking about. I know I will not make a wealthy amount of riln farming critters.
I am told it is under the guise of being encouraged to move on. My encouragement to move on is to gain more skill. Again, that is not what we are talking about.
If I am going up against less skilled critters why should I recieve less loot? If carriers drop 10-15 riln why should I not recieve that for killing one?
Last edited by Gad on Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stop holding my character hostage.
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KianTheArcher
- Member
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:01 am
You're being given less loot to encourage you to move on. Landion's stated the change applies to both riln and unique loot now. I'm not really sure how this is confusing. Less loot and less skill gains are encouragement to seek out mobs of your own challenge.
You're acting very similar to Lemuel at this point. Just because you disagree with an aspect of the MUD doesn't mean it's nonsensical. It means that you disagree with it. And at the end of the day, the MUD is in alpha, and it's ultimately up to the GMs how they want to work how loot and skill gains work.
You're acting very similar to Lemuel at this point. Just because you disagree with an aspect of the MUD doesn't mean it's nonsensical. It means that you disagree with it. And at the end of the day, the MUD is in alpha, and it's ultimately up to the GMs how they want to work how loot and skill gains work.
Morgoth, I cried
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate
What if creatures that were vastly lower in skill than the PC attempted to flee, with a very high success rate, or perhaps a really skilled PC would end up getting swarmed by temporary groups of really challanging enemies.
I know that when me and Lemuel were hunting wolves an admin (or the gaea) sent 10-15 at once and destroyed us, essentially keeping us from going after them for a while.
I know that when me and Lemuel were hunting wolves an admin (or the gaea) sent 10-15 at once and destroyed us, essentially keeping us from going after them for a while.
[quote=Gad]My encouragement to move on is to gain more skill.[/quote]
Agreed. I think easier kills vs. skill gain and unique loot/boxes is enough of a balance as it is. Making it so that things will eventually drop nothing at all seems to be forcing people's play to a greater degree than is necessary.
This system does not "encouraging" people to move on, it forces people to move on whether they want to or not. Those are very different things.
Agreed. I think easier kills vs. skill gain and unique loot/boxes is enough of a balance as it is. Making it so that things will eventually drop nothing at all seems to be forcing people's play to a greater degree than is necessary.
This system does not "encouraging" people to move on, it forces people to move on whether they want to or not. Those are very different things.