Dodging, blocking and parrying will now cause fatigue. While sitting or prone, such actions will be more tiring than normal. In addition, characters will not regenerate energy while under attack.
The numbers will surely have to be tweaked as testing is done - please report your experiences.
Combat becomes more strenuous
Combat becomes more strenuous
The lore compels me!
With these recent fatigue changes to dodge,parry and block I can't help but think of a few balance issues that may be occurring. I would like to speak for all classes but sadly I have yet to play any other class so I can only represent the mages for now. Also I have had a few gripes for a while now but I have kept them under my hat. So please bear with me as I get these all off my chest.
Currently in the game there are two ways to die. #1 You become so injured that you die or #2 you use up so much fatigue that you get knocked out and then die.
FATIGUE:
So let's take the example of a mage and the MANY ways he can lose fatigue now.
First off he loses A LOT of fatigue from channeling. Especially when trying to channel 3 spells, even with upwards of 400 skill in channeling. Now I know what you might be thinking "just don't channel 3 spells all the time" well that is another problem I'll get into a bit later.
Second mages lose a ton of fatigue from taking actual damage because they are (typically) unarmored.
And third with the increased dmg/fatigue-drain from lack of armor and the now the increased fatigue drain from "dodging" attacks. I spend more time sitting/resting and healing than... you know... trying to having fun?
I know sorcs have a few advantages with the "shadow familiar" and the new "Shadow Martyr" shield spell. But, as of now the shadow martyr spell feels more like an occasional novelty (If I manage to get a few corpses than can be harvested) and is by no means a replacement for wearing real armor. But that's something I'll go into with more detail in another post.
I think the recent changes might have something to do with the methods "that some people" have used to skill up dodge. And a thought occurred that "hey that's too easy let's add more risk for that level of reward". This change will solve that but it also makes everyone else suffer as a result.
Also you should know that a new member in the game almost "rage quit" because he/she had such a hard time skilling up their dodge skill. And that was with the "old" system in place.
CHANNELING
Now we get to a fun gripe. I have been comparing a lot of different ways to attack and the advantages/disadvantages of each. So far.. magic isn't at the top of my list.
The main problem is that melee characters can wield a giant two handed weapon and do about 30-100 dmg per round with little fatigue drain, while mages to do similar damage have to take the time to channel 3 spells, maintain them and end up losing A TON of fatigue in the process. I've had a very hard time keeping up in groups where melee characters were wasting enemies left and right while I had to rest most of the time.
I realize that casting magic is a ranged attack and therefore "should" have a penalty over melee, but even bow users do more damage per fatigue than the lowly mage and the "ranged" advantage only means that a baddy "might" lose about one round trying to get close to me.
A fix for this problem might be to either increase the amount of dmg per round spells do or reduce the amount fatigue that spells take to cast. Maybe make it so when the channeling skill gets up to about 500 you will be on par with melee characters.
With that all said keep in mind I realize that since the game is in alpha many things may be changed and many new and wonderful things may yet be added to the mix later. However, I can only comment on how things are as of now.
Thank you for reading through all that. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Currently in the game there are two ways to die. #1 You become so injured that you die or #2 you use up so much fatigue that you get knocked out and then die.
FATIGUE:
So let's take the example of a mage and the MANY ways he can lose fatigue now.
First off he loses A LOT of fatigue from channeling. Especially when trying to channel 3 spells, even with upwards of 400 skill in channeling. Now I know what you might be thinking "just don't channel 3 spells all the time" well that is another problem I'll get into a bit later.
Second mages lose a ton of fatigue from taking actual damage because they are (typically) unarmored.
And third with the increased dmg/fatigue-drain from lack of armor and the now the increased fatigue drain from "dodging" attacks. I spend more time sitting/resting and healing than... you know... trying to having fun?
I know sorcs have a few advantages with the "shadow familiar" and the new "Shadow Martyr" shield spell. But, as of now the shadow martyr spell feels more like an occasional novelty (If I manage to get a few corpses than can be harvested) and is by no means a replacement for wearing real armor. But that's something I'll go into with more detail in another post.
I think the recent changes might have something to do with the methods "that some people" have used to skill up dodge. And a thought occurred that "hey that's too easy let's add more risk for that level of reward". This change will solve that but it also makes everyone else suffer as a result.
Also you should know that a new member in the game almost "rage quit" because he/she had such a hard time skilling up their dodge skill. And that was with the "old" system in place.
CHANNELING
Now we get to a fun gripe. I have been comparing a lot of different ways to attack and the advantages/disadvantages of each. So far.. magic isn't at the top of my list.
The main problem is that melee characters can wield a giant two handed weapon and do about 30-100 dmg per round with little fatigue drain, while mages to do similar damage have to take the time to channel 3 spells, maintain them and end up losing A TON of fatigue in the process. I've had a very hard time keeping up in groups where melee characters were wasting enemies left and right while I had to rest most of the time.
I realize that casting magic is a ranged attack and therefore "should" have a penalty over melee, but even bow users do more damage per fatigue than the lowly mage and the "ranged" advantage only means that a baddy "might" lose about one round trying to get close to me.
A fix for this problem might be to either increase the amount of dmg per round spells do or reduce the amount fatigue that spells take to cast. Maybe make it so when the channeling skill gets up to about 500 you will be on par with melee characters.
With that all said keep in mind I realize that since the game is in alpha many things may be changed and many new and wonderful things may yet be added to the mix later. However, I can only comment on how things are as of now.
Thank you for reading through all that. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say "YES!"
Winston Zeddmore
Winston Zeddmore
I appreciate the input. I've never been a big fan of the pure casting classes, so any input from others is appreciated as I'm least likely to test these classes myself. Note the dodge/block/parry energy costs were put in with everyone in mind, not just the casters. With the new change will have to come new testing and balancing, so keep posting your thoughts and experiences.
My vision for the pure casting classes is to have increased power but at increased risk and energy cost, but also the choice to use less power for less energy so that they aren't always one of those fireworks that's glorious for about 10 seconds and then just stops. They should have the option to spend all their energy quickly for a quick burst of phenomenal, cosmic power, but if they want to take it easy and use lesser spells to last longer (say in groups or invasions with non-vital enemies present) that should be an option too.
Spell damage per cast has been brought up a few times, and I do believe it needs tweaking. Single-channel casts shouldn't be too powerful - it's like energy-conservation mode. When single channeling, you're using at most the same energy-per-second as nonmagical attacks, with the chance (which will surely be tweaked over time) of using even less energy thanks to the 'channeling' skill. These attacks will likely be around the same or a bit less than regular bow attacks. The triple-channel casts should be quite powerful at the expense of so much energy and should be outshining two-handed weapon swings due to the energy cost required (this is currently not the case, I realize). However, I have this horrible vision of a caster with a crazy high channeling score casting uberspells with nearly no energy cost, bringing me to my next point ...
Balancing the 'channeling' skill is a real pain. It is tedious in a way to skill up (because of the slow gain rate), yet effortless. Start channeling, leave the computer or browse the Internet for a while, come back with increased skill at zero risk or effort. I'm half-tempted to remove the skill altogether and find a different way to balance energy costs, or just use static costs to spells, to ensure they maintain their cost/effectiveness ratio. Channeling with a chance at removing energy costs sounded nifty at the time I implemented it, but it creates some bad balance issues that worry me. Without it, I'd be much less hesitant to make the raw-element-casting spells more powerful.
The soul harvesting mechanic: I apologize but I haven't looked into this in a while. It sounds like it's still too tedious and slow to really get a whole lot of use out of. I will put in some improvements to it today as time permits (yay job). For the time being, a quick hack is granting double the amount of harvest gains compared to how it previously worked.
Okay, time to run to work. More thoughts as I think of them.
My vision for the pure casting classes is to have increased power but at increased risk and energy cost, but also the choice to use less power for less energy so that they aren't always one of those fireworks that's glorious for about 10 seconds and then just stops. They should have the option to spend all their energy quickly for a quick burst of phenomenal, cosmic power, but if they want to take it easy and use lesser spells to last longer (say in groups or invasions with non-vital enemies present) that should be an option too.
Spell damage per cast has been brought up a few times, and I do believe it needs tweaking. Single-channel casts shouldn't be too powerful - it's like energy-conservation mode. When single channeling, you're using at most the same energy-per-second as nonmagical attacks, with the chance (which will surely be tweaked over time) of using even less energy thanks to the 'channeling' skill. These attacks will likely be around the same or a bit less than regular bow attacks. The triple-channel casts should be quite powerful at the expense of so much energy and should be outshining two-handed weapon swings due to the energy cost required (this is currently not the case, I realize). However, I have this horrible vision of a caster with a crazy high channeling score casting uberspells with nearly no energy cost, bringing me to my next point ...
Balancing the 'channeling' skill is a real pain. It is tedious in a way to skill up (because of the slow gain rate), yet effortless. Start channeling, leave the computer or browse the Internet for a while, come back with increased skill at zero risk or effort. I'm half-tempted to remove the skill altogether and find a different way to balance energy costs, or just use static costs to spells, to ensure they maintain their cost/effectiveness ratio. Channeling with a chance at removing energy costs sounded nifty at the time I implemented it, but it creates some bad balance issues that worry me. Without it, I'd be much less hesitant to make the raw-element-casting spells more powerful.
The soul harvesting mechanic: I apologize but I haven't looked into this in a while. It sounds like it's still too tedious and slow to really get a whole lot of use out of. I will put in some improvements to it today as time permits (yay job). For the time being, a quick hack is granting double the amount of harvest gains compared to how it previously worked.
Okay, time to run to work. More thoughts as I think of them.
The lore compels me!
-
KianTheArcher
- Member
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:01 am
One way I thought might be good to balance damage issues with spellcasting...
From what I understand, the various 'mancies/spellcasting stats/whatever, would be to put in a 'critical hit' system, in which more 'mancies/sorcereries/whatever increases a change to do double the amount of damage, with diminishing returns at a point.
For instance, at 100 Pyromancy, you could have a 4.5% chance of a critical hit.
At 200 Pyromancy, it could be 7.0%
At 300 Pyromancy it could be 9%
At 400 Pyromancy it could be 10%
At 500 pyromancy it could be 10.5%
So on and so forth
Those aren't set numbers, keep in mind. Just a rough frame to give a better representation of what I mean. (And of course there's no reason this couldn't apply to other skills as well, that I can see)
From what I understand, the various 'mancies/spellcasting stats/whatever, would be to put in a 'critical hit' system, in which more 'mancies/sorcereries/whatever increases a change to do double the amount of damage, with diminishing returns at a point.
For instance, at 100 Pyromancy, you could have a 4.5% chance of a critical hit.
At 200 Pyromancy, it could be 7.0%
At 300 Pyromancy it could be 9%
At 400 Pyromancy it could be 10%
At 500 pyromancy it could be 10.5%
So on and so forth
Those aren't set numbers, keep in mind. Just a rough frame to give a better representation of what I mean. (And of course there's no reason this couldn't apply to other skills as well, that I can see)
Morgoth, I cried
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate
All hope is gone but I swear revenge
Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate