How about a few First Aid stations in where there is no infirmary ?

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:56 am

Perhaps every hamlet already has an infirmary, but if there is a place that "almost, but not quite" warrants an infirmary, how about a First Aid station that does only something in the magnitude of these assorted ideas....

- a heal, but no healall

- perhaps takes longer than an infirmary (or perhaps not as they do less for you than the real healer)

- perhaps works like a bandage with a poultice; ie. staunches the bleeding and does a partial healing

- Perhaps charges 5 riln per wound, but some stations would First Aid you even if you are broke

Places for such a First Aid Station would include the Hanged Man Inn, the Castle-themed Diner, and similar points of interest.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:13 am

I'm not really sure why a restaurant or a sleazy inn would have first aid stations.

If you're having issues with bleeding out before you get to a healer of some description, you might want to look into purchasing poulticed bandages, or even learning to make them. They're pretty simple to make.

Rithiel · Post by **Rithiel** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:24 am

Hamlets are not meant to be a substitute for towns. They're small, and won't have the demand necessary for healer's work.

As Kian said, there is a very simple alternative, which is making bandages and poultices to heal yourself. Or sticking close to towns.

Lae · Post by **Lae** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:32 am

We also have a bunch of new monks around who would probably love the experience of healing a PC.

Post by **Rias** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:44 am

You don't even need poultices. Any bandage should stop the bleeding, at least for a little while. Stop yourself from spilling blood all over, then hobble to the nearest infirmary, or call for a monk to come to you. There are already quite a lot of infirmaries, I don't see the need to add any more.

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:49 am

[quote=KianTheArcher]I'm not really sure why a restaurant or a sleazy inn would have first aid stations.

If you're having issues with bleeding out before you get to a healer of some description, you might want to look into purchasing poulticed bandages, or even learning to make them. They're pretty simple to make.[/quote]

Not everything in the world of Arad is for experienced PC's, there are brand newbies and NPC's who have emergencies, as well.

By the same yardstick, one could argue for the elimination of these restaurants all together. You could just as well say, "If you're having issues with starving out of town before you get inside a town or hamlet of some description, you might want to look into purchasing an oversize backpack and filling it with at least 50 travel rations, or even learning to forage for berries. They're pretty easy to find. I'm not really sure why we need a restaurant or a sleazy inn outside of town at all."

Kiyaani · Post by **Kiyaani** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:59 am

Excuse me, the Saucy Templar is a legitimate and refined establishment and the food there is hardly cheap enough to say it's there to feed someone in an emergency (unlike your idea for random seedy people healing on the fly). It's a social spot located in a convenient location. That's just smart business.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:11 pm

[quote=Lemuel]
Not everything in the world of Arad is for experienced PC's, there are brand newbies and NPC's who have emergencies, as well.

By the same yardstick, one could argue for the elimination of these restaurants all together. You could just as well say, "If you're having issues with starving out of town before you get inside a town or hamlet of some description, you might want to look into purchasing an oversize backpack and filling it with at least 50 travel rations, or even learning to forage for berries. They're pretty easy to find. I'm not really sure why we need a restaurant or a sleazy inn outside of town at all."[/quote]

There is a difference between having areas that make sense IC, versus having a convenient healing spot.

Go drive a ways on the highway. Funnily enough, you will run into a miraculous thing called a diner, or a restaurant. You see, people notice that people like to eat when the are traveling. It's funny. And the funny thing about the Hanged Man is that it's a haven for people that are NOT welcome in Shadgard. Presumably someone saw a business opportunity there.

However, those places have no real IC reasoning to have "first aid stations". It just sounds like it's convenient for YOU, and that's why you'd want it. If your real concern is newbies dying, then just ask the GMs to change the message you get upon entering the wilderness for the first time to include something like the following.

"In addition to food, it's a good idea to stock up on a few bandages if you think you will be fighting anything, in case you find yourself bleeding and unable to make it to a healer! Also, remember if you have an ESP pendant, you can call for help if you need it, if someone is online to hear."

That would be a legitimate way to fix the issue of new people dying out in the woods. Not a random first aid station in an area like a dingy inn or a place where food is being served.

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:22 pm

[quote=KianTheArcher]

There is a difference between having areas that make sense IC, versus having a convenient healing spot.

Go drive a ways on the highway. Funnily enough, you will run into a miraculous thing called a diner, or a restaurant. You see, people notice that people like to eat when the are traveling. It's funny. And the funny thing about the Hanged Man is that it's a haven for people that are NOT welcome in Shadgard. Presumably someone saw a business opportunity there.

However, those places have no real IC reasoning to have "first aid stations". [/quote]

No, but I guarantee you, 95% + of these real life restaurants have a First Aid Kit behind the counter. Probably 100% in restaurants in wartime areas. In CLOK terms, that would be bandages. Would you be opposed to at least that ? Also, in real life, there is a chance that there's a 'doctor in the house', and in CLOK there's a chance that an NPC is skilled in herbalism and/or first aid. What about in real life universities where they do have a First Aid Station, would not the elemancer's university have one ?

[quote=KianTheArcher]It just sounds like it's convenient for YOU, and that's why you'd want it. If your real concern is newbies dying, then just ask the GMs to change the message you get upon entering the wilderness for the first time to include something like the following.

"In addition to food, it's a good idea to stock up on a few bandages if you think you will be fighting anything, in case you find yourself bleeding and unable to make it to a healer! Also, remember if you have an ESP pendant, you can call for help if you need it, if someone is online to hear."
.[/quote]

Yes, a message like that would be very good, too, I would be for such a message. As far as my own suggestion being "just convenient for me", for the last 2 months I have been past the point where I risk bleeding to death anywhere, because: with my horse, I always been able to make it into town on time; I have 40+ bandages in my pack plus an experienced first aid skill that now usually works the first attempt; I have the speedwalk down pat, and I would probably not myself use the stopgap First Aid in a diner but just ride into town for the real thing.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:05 pm

[quote=Lemuel]
No, but I guarantee you, 95% + of these real life restaurants have a First Aid Kit behind the counter. Probably 100% in restaurants in wartime areas. In CLOK terms, that would be bandages. Would you be opposed to at least that ? Also, in real life, there is a chance that there's a 'doctor in the house', and in CLOK there's a chance that an NPC is skilled in herbalism and/or first aid. What about in real life universities where they do have a First Aid Station, would not the elemancer's university have one ?
[...]
Yes, a message like that would be very good, too, I would be for such a message. As far as my own suggestion being "just convenient for me", for the last 2 months I have been past the point where I risk bleeding to death anywhere, because: with my horse, I always been able to make it into town on time; I have 40+ bandages in my pack plus an experienced first aid skill that now usually works the first attempt; I have the speedwalk down pat, and I would probably not myself use the stopgap First Aid in a diner but just ride into town for the real thing.[/quote]

A first aid kit potentially. But there are two issues I see with making that point. The first of these is, you can only draw so many parallels from modern day examples. I drew the example of "diners and the like" because it's something that reasonably would exist in the era that Clok is based around. The second issue I see is that these first aid kits would only be useful for (at best) staunching a light wound. It's unlikely that they would be expecting to treat someone covered in bleeding gashes, burns, and the like. So unless you put the "first aid kit" on a cooldown to prevent people from abusing it, you'd have the restaurant realistically burning through bandages at a ridiculous rate, costing them money. If they're charging for the bandages, that defeats the purpose of it being a first aid kit. Sort of an "Oh, sorry, you don't have money? You die" type thing.

I do not think it's necessary. There's no reason not to carry a couple of bandages with you at all times. And if you forget to, or ignore the message, then you most likely deserve to die. It's called "dealing with consequences and repercussions".

Evelyn · Post by **Evelyn** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:27 pm

I just want to add that there are a handful of new active monks like Lae pointed out who would like the experience to heal travelers, also Lae is about often and it takes nothing more then an ESP message for her to heal you. I don't see the need to add in first aid kits. The infirmary's already offer extra healing besides monk healing (which you should be considering first before seeking the herbist route.) I've always considered the infirmary's as back up when a monk isn't around/online. Just my two cents on the matter.

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:35 pm

[quote=Evelyn]I just want to add that there are a handful of new active monks like Lae pointed out who would like the experience to heal travelers, also Lae is about often and it takes nothing more then an ESP message for her to heal you. I don't see the need to add in first aid kits. The infirmary's already offer extra healing besides monk healing (which you should be considering first before seeking the herbist route.) I've always considered the infirmary's as back up when a monk isn't around/online. Just my two cents on the matter.[/quote]

Yes Evelyn, but remember that not all of our characters agree with resorting to mystical/supernatural/sorcerous methods for healing and other advantages; in fact, this is one of the most attractive features of CLOK for me: the ability to opt out of the assorted forms of magic use - whereas such a path is impossible in most other MUD worlds (unless you want to never progress in levels, etc).

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:06 pm

And there are currently ways of healing one's self without using thaumaturgy, if one desires. Either learn herbalism, or buy poulticed bandages.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:49 am

Why don't some places have exorbantly priced bandages? A store would want a bandage to keep employee's working as long as possible before visiting the infirmary and outputs wouldn't just say"oh well" if you came to them bleeding all over their nice carpet.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:44 am

It's fairly typical for most modern stores to keep a first aid kid, which they would obviously use for customers if they were injured as well as employees. The same COULD potentially apply to Clok establishments. But the problem with saying "they wouldn't just say 'Oh well' to you" is that they wouldn't charge you money, realistically, in that same scenario.

On top of that, if you place first aid stations in these establishments, it defeats the purpose of even having a regular bandage. It also promotes a lack of common sense (such as failing to check if you have bandages on your person before you leave), as well as rewarding players that make poor decisions. If you place first aid stations in these establishments at random, it's going to promote the idea of just using those first aid stations instead of using their own common sense and carrying their bandages around.

The lack of such places elsewhere on the mud in relation to other cities means it's not going to be helpful to all Newbies either, only newbies that stay around Shadgard primarily.

Post by **Rias** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:52 am

I'll lay this discussion to rest and say it's simply not going to happen. Sorry. If you show up bleeding all over a wayside diner, shop, inn, or other establishment in the Lost Lands, they're going to say, "Hey, sorry, we don't have any experienced physicians here who are capable of properly dressing your wounds. You'll have to go to the nearest infirmary to get the attention you need. Good luck."

Welcome to the semi-post-apocalyptic frontier.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:15 am

wouldn't shops kick you out if you bleed all over their floor? If a guy came to my house demanding medical treatment instead of an ambulance, like a sane person, he's waiting outside.

Jaster · Post by **Jaster** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:15 am

(Completely off topic) But there are plenty of medical conditions that can cause a person to not be in their right mind, so you might be kicking a perfectly sane person who is well in need of your help outside. What if they are diabetic and their blood sugar is dangerously low? You should have invited them in for some halloween candy.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:09 pm

they can wait there until the ambulance comes, I don't want their blood all over my persian rug (not made with real persians).