Bringing clarity to which is the Scarecrows' private property

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:16 am

Back when I was a newbie (an by no means was I a bright newbie), I found it unclear which way the sign of the Scarecrows on the road was telling me not to go in...was it telling me not to continue down the main road? The lake? The farm? All 3?

To take away ambiguity, I would like to request a change.

One way to do it would be as follows:

As one travels on the north-south main road, there is a west-bound path one can walk into by typing W. Then, in this road-room to the west, the warning sign stands, along with the option to GO FARM or GO LAKE, or you can go back E to the road or another compass direction into the woods, plains, etc. No ambiguity this way. If the Lake as well as the Farm is Scarecrow private property, the sign should say so; or else to reach the lake, one has to first type in
GO FARM then GO LAKE in the first farm room.

Lae · Post by **Lae** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:20 am

I'm not sure if you're kidding here or not...

I believe that things are done for a reason. If we had signs on everything in the mud giving direction on where to go, what to do and how to do it, we wouldn't have any reason for player interaction.

Right now we don't have enough reason for player interaction and I'd hate to lose more opportunity for it.

Edit to add : When I meet a newbie, one of the first things that I tell them, beyond the rations in the wilderness warning is that the Scarecrows should be avoided..

This is what I mean by player interaction.

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:33 am

Postscript:

The steam engine in the current sign road-room added to the confusion in my part. Who owns this? If no-one, who would abandon such valuable equipment and who wouldn't salvage it? If the scarecrows own this, they would certainly drag it onto their own lands. Also, who keeps refuelling it (it is always emitting steam) and for what purpose? How is it the refuellers are always invisible? It is a confusing piece of equipment sitting as it does on the road, and at that particular place on the road. I would recommend it not be in the same room as the sign.

Jaster · Post by **Jaster** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:46 am

The steam engine is a traveling grummer's home and shop if I'm not mistaken.

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:48 am

[quote=Lae]I'm not sure if you're kidding here or not...[/quote]

Oh please! My post doesn't look anything like kidding.

[quote=Lae]
When I meet a newbie, one of the first things that I tell them, beyond the rations in the wilderness warning is that the Scarecrows should be avoided..

This is what I mean by player interaction.[/quote]

Lemuel played for weeks and no one told him to leave the scarecrows alone until after he trespassed. Also, if I just began playing today for the first time, there is no guarantee you'd be logged in and at your keyboard to tell me about rations and leaving the scarecrows alone. But that was never the point of my post; my point was in taking away the ambiguity of where the trespass begins.

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:54 am

[quote=Jaster]The steam engine is a traveling grummer's home and shop if I'm not mistaken.[/quote]

He doesn't do much travelling, does he? I tried to go in (I never understood the wagon to be as large as you imply) and got this:

ENAvd>
go wagon
The rickety metal-clad iron-wheeled steam wagon is closed.

ENAvd>
open wagon
You can't open that.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:02 am

"CITIZENS OF SHADGARD AND SIMILAR.

Your kind have proven unworthy of trust, incapable of controlling your own. As trust is broken, so is the agreement. Your infested units will pass us by on the road unhindered, and we will not come to your aid.

You are no longer welcome on our land. We will not seek you if you do not seek us, unless you are in possession of the Scythe.

Those few who have proved trustworthy will remain welcome on our land : Evelyn, Kian, Sajiri, Collins and Rasui."

I don't see how this is confusing. It's simple. The sign says "Stay off of our lands". And then lists people that CAN walk on the lands. If you are a confused newbie, just contact the people listed there for more information.

More signs would be redundant.

Lae · Post by **Lae** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:04 am

I do remember, when I lent you money actually, that I offered you a medallion, warned you about rations, offered to buy you a wagon AND told you to be careful on the road because of the scarecrows.

There is very rarely a time when I'm in game and away from key, if I am it's because I am a girl and I went to pee, and unlike men it doesn't take me ten seconds to accomplish.

Lemuel, I understand that you think there should be a sign there, and that things should be cleaner and prettier, but there IS a sign there and that wagon isn't hurting anything. What is the real issue here?

Kiyaani · Post by **Kiyaani** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:10 am

Unless I'm mistaken there's still also the giant warning the first time you enter the wilderness to have enough rations with you.

Post by **Rias** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:40 pm

If we didn't have any "accidental" trespassers, things wouldn't be as fun. Anyway, it's likely safe to assume this: If you see scarecrows there, that's what they consider their land. They won't be overly upset if you run off after seeing them, it's when you start destroying them or looting their resources that they're really offended.

Some people try to argue that they attack in self-defense, and get upset when the scarecrows aren't mollified by this explanation. Remember that you're talking to animated scarecrows, here. These aren't humans. Don't expect them to act according to your own reason and logic.

As a last nugget of advice: When in doubt, ask questions. Not everything is going to be clearly explained or arranged for your (general your) convenience.

(Note: I intentionally left some questions unanswered. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it's wrong.)

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:34 pm

[quote=Lae]I do remember, when I lent you money actually, that I offered you a medallion, warned you about rations, offered to buy you a wagon AND told you to be careful on the road because of the scarecrows.[/quote]

When you say to be careful on the road because of the scarecrows, I take it the same way as when someone tells me to be careful on the road because of coyotes [in red] ...ie. because they attack you. How could I infer that by going on the farm and fighting them after being attacked, that I would spark a war between the scarecrows and Shadgard, and earn the wrath of three player characters unto the death multiple times?

Also, it wasn't scarecrows on the road that were the issue but characters leaving the road and going on to scarecrow farm lands and lake.

[quote=Lae]Lemuel, I understand that you think there should be a sign there, and that things should be cleaner and prettier, but there IS a sign there and that wagon isn't hurting anything. What is the real issue here?[/quote]

The real issue is that hindsight is far clearer than pre-sight. My misadventure onto the farm caused undue grief for myself and more than one other player. My desire is that no-one would mistakenly do the same thing.

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:44 pm

Lemuel, how many times did you go into a room where a scarecrow could go, counting the first time? How many scarecrows were killed? Did you take anything form the bodies? How long, estimate, were you in the scarecrow owned areas?

Can you define what is the difference between undue grief and grief?

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:49 am

[quote=KianTheArcher]"CITIZENS OF SHADGARD AND SIMILAR.

Your kind have proven unworthy of trust, incapable of controlling your own. As trust is broken, so is the agreement. Your infested units will pass us by on the road unhindered, and we will not come to your aid.

You are no longer welcome on our land. We will not seek you if you do not seek us, unless you are in possession of the Scythe.

Those few who have proved trustworthy will remain welcome on our land : Evelyn, Kian, Sajiri, Collins and Rasui."

I don't see how this is confusing. It's simple. The sign says "Stay off of our lands". And then lists people that CAN walk on the lands. If you are a confused newbie, just contact the people listed there for more information.[/quote]

You don't see this as confusing because you have hindsight. Re-read the sign you quoted from start to finish. NOWHERE is it signed by the Scarecrows, nor references them. Thus, when someone says, "be careful on the road because of the scarecrows", there is nothing for the newbie to connect that warning to this sign.

To the bottom line of the sign should be added, "By order of Lord Scarecrow", or some other mention made as to who put up the sign.

[quote=KianTheArcher]More signs would be redundant.[/quote]

I did not ask for more signs.

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:04 am

Did you ever ask about the sign, ICly?

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:43 am

Lemuel wrote:

You don't see this as confusing because you have hindsight. Re-read the sign you quoted from start to finish. NOWHERE is it signed by the Scarecrows, nor references them. Thus, when someone says, "be careful on the road because of the scarecrows", there is nothing for the newbie to connect that warning to this sign.

To the bottom line of the sign should be added, "By order of Lord Scarecrow", or some other mention made as to who put up the sign.

While I can agree with amending the sign to include mention of the Scarecrows, I do not see the sign as confusing because I have common sense, not due to hindsight. If there is a sign that references something in an ambiguous manner, then I'd ask people about it. Either through esp or I would mail one (or all) of the people mentioned on the sign.

I did not ask for more signs.

If you put up a big red sign that says "DO NOT GO INTO THESE ROOMS" for one area, you need to do it for all areas. Heaven forbid someone walk into an area and get killed.

My misadventure onto the farm caused undue grief for myself and more than one other player.

Grief, perhaps. Undue? Most likely not. If you're talking about me, Kian stalked and killed Lemuel once for a number of reasons, the Scarecrow incident amongst them.