Group Hunting and Challenge

Landion · Post by **Landion** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:28 pm

Mechanics have been put in place for testing that are meant to encourage people to hunt together, as well as hunt things more challenging for them.

Effective immediately, on critters that give loot, you will have a higher chance to find loot based on several factors:

- If the critter is a challenge for your character.
- If you have people hunting with you.
- How much of a challenge the critter is for your group members.

The more challenging a critter, the higher the chance for loot.
If the critter is too easy for you, you will see less loot.

So, for example:

A character heads out to fight something quite dangerous for them. This would cause a boost to the chance for loot.

Two characters group up and head into a dangerous area for them both. This would cause a boost to the chance for loot, a bit higher than if you were just alone. (This scales upward with more people in the group.)

Two characters group up, but the area is too easy for one of them but a challenge to the other. There would be no boost to loot, and possibly a penalty depending on how easy the area is for the higher skilled player.

Five characters enter an area that is very challenging for all of them but one. They would likely see a boost to the chance for loot, but not quite as high as it would be if the area were challenging for all five people.

Loot Mechanic factors into the following:

- Creatures spawning with unique weapons
- Gems, items, riln in strongboxes dropped by critters
- Riln dropped by the critter.

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As math is involved, you can expect this to be tested and tweaked a bunch as we go along.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:07 pm

this may be a stupid question, but what constitues challanging? and how is that calculated?

Lae · Post by **Lae** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:07 am

I'm going to hazard a guess, that anything your guild is sending you after should be considered a challenge. I think sometimes it's broken and it will send you somewhere a little overly dangerous, but odds are, if your guild sends you somewhere for a task it's challenging.

There are guilds that don't have kill or rescue tasks, and in that case I would probably ask around in game in a tell. Most newer folks find the graveyard (around the entrance - not the trail), carriers and merchants challenging.

Post by **Rias** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:27 am

Challenging generally refers to you odds at rolling successfully against a skill check. For combat it is greatly dependent on your offense versus highest applicable enemy defense. M:100 vs D:100 could be considered the baseline average challenge, that is, evenly matched. M:100 vs D:200 would be a fairly large challenge - the defender is twice the skill of the attacker for that skill check.

Tenlaar · Post by **Tenlaar** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:39 am

Do only the skills used in combat go into figuring a challenge level, or all known skills? For example, if I could be using daggers (say, M:300 vs D:100) but I instead use my underdeveloped brawling skill (M:100 vs D:100), how would challenge be calculated?

Post by **Rias** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:46 am

For skillgains, it's whatever numbers you actually see. So if you're using a weapon you're unskilled with, you'll get any gains based on your numbers with that weapon.

For tasks, and I imagine this system, it looks at your best/highest skills.

Landion · Post by **Landion** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:22 pm

[quote=Rias]... it looks at your best/highest skills.[/quote]

This is how it currently is coded. (Though it ignores skills that aren't combat oriented.)

Tenlaar · Post by **Tenlaar** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:33 pm

Thanks guys. After so many years of Gemstone it's nice to ask a question and get a direct response about mechanics.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:15 am

Is 'Druidry' considered a combat skill?

Post by **Rias** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:59 am

Nope.

Gad · Post by **Gad** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:56 pm

So if I go into the robber camp I am going to see less loot because I am more skilled then them? Someone with less or equal skill to the robber camp will see more riln and boxes than me because my skill is beyond the robber camp? This seems like punishing the skilled player. If I can go to an area and clean house, why would that be a bad thing? I spent the riln and time to train to do so. I think you should base loot on the area and critters not on how easily someone can defeat them.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:05 pm

I'm with Gad on this one, when somebody reaches that point where they can dessimate the lower rank but can't quite kill the next rank, they shouldn't be punished by gaining less riln.

Acarin · Post by **Acarin** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:41 pm

Agree. This doesn't quite make sense to me? Are the enemies just carrying less loot because they know someone skilled is around and are afraid to lose it? There's no real ic reason this would be the case so why make it that way?

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:29 pm

Firstly, this isn't punishing anyone. It's rewarding people who group up. It's a common misconception, but a lack of a reward is not the same as a punishment. Punishing skilled players would be removing all loot gained from the mobs.

You get a base amount from critters, but a bonus when you use grouping mechanics. If you want to be a lone wolf, that's fine. But you shouldn't be rewarded for being able to mass farm mobs. It's giving incentive to you to go and fight things that are a challenge instead of going the easy route and just mass murdering easy mobs.

If you're at a certain level of skill, you should be encouraged to kill things that are a challenge, and discouraged from going and stabbing newbie level mobs for money.

Jaster · Post by **Jaster** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:35 pm

I like killing newbie mobs, just because it makes me feel like a total nightcrawler.

As we can see below.

Makkah · Post by **Makkah** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:51 pm

Xzean · Post by **Xzean** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:38 am

Zombies should count as group members.

Just sayin'.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:25 am

[quote=Landion]The more challenging a critter, the higher the chance for loot.
If the critter is too easy for you, you will see less loot.[/quote]

This isn't a lack of reward, it's an actual punishment, I would agree if challenge gives you a bit more but this is a physical punishment since I can't quite kill hounds and laborers without taking massive amounts of damage but the carriers are way too easy. After this was put in I didn't even make enough riln to replace the constant damage done to my armor and other equipment without spending 20 minutes to kill 1 laborer and get enough all at once or 20 minutes killing a bunch of carriers to get the same amount.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:26 am

[quote=Landion]The more challenging a critter, the higher the chance for loot.
If the critter is too easy for you, you will see less loot.[/quote]

This isn't a lack of reward, it's an actual punishment, I would agree if challenge gives you a bit more but this is an actual punishment because I can't quite kill hounds and laborers without taking massive amounts of damage but the carriers are way too easy. After this was put in I didn't even make enough riln to replace the constant damage done to my armor and other equipment without spending 20 minutes to kill 1 laborer and get enough all at once or 20 minutes killing a bunch of carriers to get the same amount.

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:41 am

Why not change it, if you group or don't group, you get the same amount of items and the same kind. If you group you gain skill-gains of up to x2.5 of your natural skill gains, this would stack with training or RP reward bonuses. (As for hounds and workers, are you skinning the hounds and selling/turning them into items and looting the items on the carriers to sell them at pawnshops? If not, you aren't making all the money you can off of them.)

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:44 am

skinning infested stuff doesn't net very much and I loot everything, most the time I can't get any of the stuff drop because i'm still being attacked, I have to draw them out individually to kill them and I still end up having to go back to town or use bandages after every other kill.

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:46 am

Skin the infested creatures, clean the pelts, and then turn them into leather which you can sell to other players or even turn into boots, gloves, hats and the like. I on average make 16-32 riln per infested pelt.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:53 am

First of all, if you're going to say this is a physical punishment, then we need to know what exactly is being "lost" to people that want to farm newbie mobs for gain. If you're still gaining the standard riln and equipment, you are not being punished. If what is being lost is a chance at a "special" item such as a unique weapon or a chest, then you are being discouraged versus being punished. Those should be looked at as rewards for fighting something challenging.

On Kian if I'm training up a skill that is lower than my others, I have no trouble earning riln while fighting lower skilled mobs. I've never had trouble getting riln on Metzli either.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:06 am

Landion said that you get less loot, comparing my characters, I definetly see that my lower levels get more riln from the carriers than my higher levels and i've never even gotten a special item.

it's not farming newbie mobs for gain, it's the fact that i'm at a point where I have to constantly replace equipment because i'm moving up to a higher rank and it's not worth it to go to the hounds and laborers because after a few minutes of fighting i'm near death and my armor is damaged. I don't make enough riln doing my tasks because i'm constantly having to get medical attention and fix my armor, it's more beneficial for me to kill a bunch of weak mobs then to kill a few stronger ones, all this does it make it harder to get riln in general. I agree with the idea, but there isn't always somebody on when i'm on and it's difficult to group with somebody of my strength, the only person I consistently see while i'm on that is the same strength as me is Lemuel.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:20 am

The flip side of that is, if it's changed to what it was, then the system WILL be used to farm low level mobs. The fact that Gad is complaining about it already proves that the system would be abused.

That being said, I often get tasks to mobs that are difficult for Kian to fight, but as long as I fight cautiously, I don't tend to have any problems, with money or actually doing the tasks. If the problem you're encountering is purely a lack of money, then take up a trade or craft of some kind to make up for the money you aren't making. Riln is very easy to make in this game, if one is willing to put in a bit of time on the side doing it.