ARCHIVE: CLOK BBS

Hey there! The purpose of this thread is to examine, discuss and suggest new abilities for the Wyrvardn. The Wyrvardn are a group of physical combat specialists who fight with honor and chivalry in order to protect the weak.

Current Abilities:
1: Feint
2: Multi-Opponent Combat
3: Flurry
4: Charge
5: Disarm
6: Protector's Vow
7: Armor: Apprentice
8: Armor: Journeyman
9: Armor: Master

Right now, the Wyrvardn have a solid, if a little barebones set of abilities taken from both the Templar and Mercenaries. They have a strong focus on defensive combat with their Armor Mastery, Feint and Multi-Opponent combat. Protector's Vow gives them a larger chance to intercept an attack targeted at who they're defending.

So, with all this in mind, lets talk about the Wyrvardn and what they can do!

Right, so, double posting here but here's the real meat of the topic. New skills! The Wyrvardn have a nice set of skills, but they don't have anything unique to them, so lets do a bit of brain storming to try and solve that. I've come up with a couple of skills that, hopefully, fit the Wyrvardn's role of the knight and protector.


Defensive Phalanx
The Wyrvardn know how to protect themselves and their charges best- and that's by keeping a wall of steel between them and their foes. With a spear in hand, they're able to keep distance with their foes, giving themselves time to react when they manage to move in for a strike. Bonus block rate when equipped with a Spear and Shield.

Agressive Posturing
Sometimes the best defence is a good offence. Wyrvardn know how to press their attacks quite well in order to keep their charges safe, removing the round time increase when they use the 'press' command in combat.

Shield Mastery
A knight is only as good as their armor for it protects them in the hectic throes of battle. Some Wyrvardn, however, wish to use their shield- a vital piece of armor- for more then just protection. Shield Mastery increases the activation rate of shield bash by an inverted rate (There's smaller gains for smaller shields, although bucklers and the such will still be better at bashing).

Glad to see Jilliana's new guild home get some love.
I like some of those abilities.

It'd be nice to have an ability where we learn a basic immunity to nethrim. Of course, not to the extent of the Templar because they're not Templar. I was thinking more along the lines of Morcant teaching his friends and newer recruits to better protect themselves. A lot of the tasks are in places with nether-based MOB and trust me it's not impossible, but mighty hard to fight them with just a plain iron weapon.

Having the ability to defend up to three people at once (progressively).

It would require a higher level in multiple skills like shield, dodge, melee, armor use, and various weapon skills. The idea is that to be able to defend multiple people you have to be extremely well trained to mitigate damage received and protect those behind you. Those being guarded can still break the guard so this ability would be more ideal to guard range/casters/healers who are not on the front line. It would also allow the group to double up more on who needs to be guarded.

This could also be adapted to press multiple opponents into combat keeping opponents focused on the Wyrvardn and not others in the group.

It'd be nice to see this group have access to Tactics Guardian, and Master Guardian skills as well.

I was thinking more along the lines of them using the GUARD command to actually guard more than one person in a more strict role.

Gad wrote:Having the ability to defend up to three people at once (progressively).

It would require a higher level in multiple skills like shield, dodge, melee, armor use, and various weapon skills. The idea is that to be able to defend multiple people you have to be extremely well trained to mitigate damage received and protect those behind you. Those being guarded can still break the guard so this ability would be more ideal to guard range/casters/healers who are not on the front line. It would also allow the group to double up more on who needs to be guarded.

This could also be adapted to press multiple opponents into combat keeping opponents focused on the Wyrvardn and not others in the group.

I really like this idea. I especially like the multiple skills needed to use it to begin with. I think of this type of ability taking time to train and do well, and having multiple prerequisites would be something to definitely work towards for those individuals who want something to work to.

Of course, this would mean that Jilliana would have to suck it up and start using a shield.

What about an ability that allows the Wyrvardn to push an enemy out of the area? For example, you are in a town that is under attack and you go to the infirmary to protect the sick and injured. A infested guard walks in to slay the weak and as a Wyrvardn you use your shield to push him back and take the fight outside keeping those in the infirmary safe.

Maybe, this could also be used with a type of weapon specialization where you maneuver the mob out of the area.

Gad wrote:What about an ability that allows the Wyrvardn to push an enemy out of the area? For example, you are in a town that is under attack and you go to the infirmary to protect the sick and injured. A infested guard walks in to slay the weak and as a Wyrvardn you use your shield to push him back and take the fight outside keeping those in the infirmary safe.

Maybe, this could also be used with a type of weapon specialization where you maneuver the mob out of the area.

I really like this. Better to move than to fight in the infirmary or other place with innocent bystanders.

I dunno. In that sort of situation, you're also leaving the people inside vulnerable for anyone who might slip past you while you're distracted. I'd rather stand just inside the doorway and fight things as they come in. It forces them to engage you one at a time, and keeps them from getting close to the innocent bystanders.

Now, since what I just said isn't possible in the mechanics of the game, maybe we could have an ability to push the hostile entities back outside, and then have a temporary effect (say, two minutes?) that any enemies in the destination room and any that enter from that point until the end of the effect, either get pressed by the Wyrvardn character when they try to go into the origin room, or have it so they try to go that way, but we block their way (just like the guards do for the towns, and certain NPCs do for guild-specific areas), or just cause every enemy to become pressed by the Wyrvardn.

Fayne wrote:I dunno. In that sort of situation, you're also leaving the people inside vulnerable for anyone who might slip past you while you're distracted. I'd rather stand just inside the doorway and fight things as they come in. It forces them to engage you one at a time, and keeps them from getting close to the innocent bystanders.

Now, since what I just said isn't possible in the mechanics of the game, maybe we could have an ability to push the hostile entities back outside, and then have a temporary effect (say, two minutes?) that any enemies in the destination room and any that enter from that point until the end of the effect, either get pressed by the Wyrvardn character when they try to go into the origin room, or have it so they try to go that way, but we block their way (just like the guards do for the towns, and certain NPCs do for guild-specific areas), or just cause every enemy to become pressed by the Wyrvardn.

You're thinking as if the Wyrvardn would be the only ones in the battle.

The ideal situation would be to push enemies out and have someone on the inside to make sure nobody gets in too far.

I'm not sure if realistically, they'd give us the ability to block a doorway for a period of time. This is where my above mentioned idea would come into play...that of having someone on the inside while a Wyrvardn push the enemy out.

So I'm restoring this thread! :)!

First,a generalized ability suggestion:

Shield Mastery:
This ability grants the shield user the most effective means of employing it. It could grant, say, a small chance to bash, weight the block rolls upward, and allow for the round shield to be used like a buckler (allow for more strikes with a weapon)?
If not the last one, make it a wyrvardn ability
ability: Determined fighter
This ability grants the wyrvardn the ability to, for a short time, tap into their reserves of determination and will, allowing them to accomplish more feets in battle. It could have some or all of the following effects:
1. Allow the wyrvardn to use a shield and a weapon with no penalties for a small time (30 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown?)
2. Allow a wyrvardn to restore a bit of lost energy, or have a lessened energy loss for a short time. After the effect, however, they are unable to regain energy as quickly for a time. also, cooldown might help too.

Ability: Fearless Combatant
As a fighter of Nethrim and a witness to many atrocities, the wyrvardn can them to shake off most fear effects. The downside to this, however, is they put themselves in a state of mind that causes them to be reluctant to leave battle (the chance to flee/change to posission avoid is seriously reduced while the ability is active).

Ability: maximum strike?
Due to the reliance on skill with a weapon, rather than alternative means of defeating incorporeal nethrim, the wyrvardn knows how to effectively strike at the incorporeal nethrim in such a way that it eather increases alchemical damage or reduces damage to an iron/steel weapon. This ability is virtually useless against other foes.

Ability: tactical retreat
The wyrvardn, knowing his or her charges are in danger, can shift to a defensive tactic, allowing the group to escape as a whole.

That's all I've got!

(edit to fix up a very very naughty word).

merin wrote: Ability: tactical retreat
The wyrvardn, knowing his or her charges are in danger, can [crap] to a defensive tactic, allowing the group to escape as a whole.

Jaster, please comment?

The following Public Service ANnouncement brought to you by the add council:

The word "Shift" has an "F" between the I and the T. If left out, the BBS will change the offensive word to "Crap!

In my experience, Shadgard law always regards crapping as a strictly offensive tactic.

I love a shield mastery. More reason for Jilliana to suck it up and work on shielding.

Jaster wrote:In my experience, Shadgard law always regards crapping as a strictly offensive tactic.

No wonder I dig Shadgard.

...I'd love to see that Shield Mastery on general! (Along with Armor!)

To continue the line of thought from another post, regarding abilities. We have a large field of abilities that govern Strength. Now, I was thinking, maybe abilities that govern the attributes of the Wyrvardn's tenets.

Courage: An ability that reflects three things. Being able to be unshakable, study and fearless. Capable of standing our ground. This could be based off a skill that is already in the system. The higher it is, the more effective it may be. Progressing from unshakable, to study, to fearless. Fearless being requiring an extremely high skill ranking. Not with standing, capable of failing against some of the most fearsome beings in the land. I am sure that in part, that it requires a certain amount of RP, but, it could aid to the actual RP.
Unshaken: 500
Sturdy: 1000
Fearless: 2000
These are just levels of fear resistance with borrowed names, based on the inspiration of the D20 pathfinder system. So, this is just a base idea, in itself.

Having RP of courage against that lich is one thing, but then to be running off in fear, shortly after, making the char look laughable, kind of literally feats the purpose, I would think.

This ability was a great reference to start off with. The idea of it is also based on a Wyrvardn's ability to effectly train his mindset (meditation) to stand firm against the more fearsome of beings. Making meditation hard to train and only trainable by being able to stand against fearsome creatures, such as nethrim. I also understand that such training would difficult. but, being fearless should be, in my mind, an almost a legendary state of mindframe.

gralkik wrote:Having RP of courage against that lich is one thing, but then to be running off in fear, shortly after, making the char look laughable, kind of literally feats the purpose, I would think.

I'm just going to say, I'm fairly sure the RP-effects caused by Fear in game are there so people can't just ignore the fact of what they've felt and be all "I am a paragon of fearlness!" despite having just been feared.

gralkik wrote:Having RP of courage against that lich is one thing, but then to be running off in fear, shortly after, making the char look laughable, kind of literally feats the purpose, I would think.

I remember a huge debate similar to this on Gemstone several years back. There was this NPC mage running around who used fear a lot, and people were mad because they said their character shouldn't be scared of him, and it made their characters look wimpy. The thing is, these fear effects aren't from seeing a spider, or from someone sneaking up and saying "boo", or from glimpsing a spooky ghost. The fear that is making your character run, or be unable to move or speak, or gibbering or whatever, is magical. It's not a rational response, it's like something triggering the fear center of your brain directly. The creature or the magic itself doesn't have to be scary, it's just flipping that fear switch that exists in all of us because our characters are human beings, and that's when you get scared. Without similarly magical help, you're vulnerable to that fear, I don't care how courageous you RP your character.

It's like when people get mad when I footstomp or nutkick them, because they want to RP their character as someone tough as nails who can shrug off pain. Well that's great, but it doesn't mean your character gets a special pass to be immune to things. I think it's more about people not wanting to ever look the fool. I get that, and Bryce hates to look wrong or stupid or like's been had, but it happens. No character is going to never get the short straw. We have to deal with our characters sometimes getting the short end of the stick and ending up looking foolish, stupid, or wrong. It happens to Bryce more than he'd ever admit, and more than I'd like as his player, but to quote Calvin's dad: it builds character.

I understand that. My issue is, one of the big things stamped on our gear says "Courage". Kinda hard to explain running away half the time because things are bigger and stronger then you. Then to explain having to explain running and jibbering like a blabbering fool while wearing "Courage" On you seems a bit pointless.

We could get into a deeper conversation about Courage, how real courage is not some magical/mechanical benefit but being able to RP being fearless despite or through whatever, but lets face it, That all means very little when a nethrim comes through and makes you piss yourself because he has the magic. Fear does not effect Canim, and they don't have any "Magical" defended against it like a Templar would.

There are plenty of other ways for our characters to make fools of themselves. I think all we are asking is for a realistic and reasonable way to represent the standards we are representing. I would have no arguments if I were in any other guild, because it makes sense that hey, magical fear sucks. But, if your in an organization with "Courage" stamped on it's chest in bold letters, it is not unreasonable to expect to be able to have it in the face of fear, in my eyes.

I'll follow up by saying that I'm not against people getting a potential ability to give extra resistance to fear effects, but without some kind of magical assistance or serious mental conditioning the resistance shouldn't be too great. Wyrvardn should be courageous for sure, but I don't see them having rigorous mental discipline training and exercises like a templar would. If anyone should get resistance from sheer courage, I would think it would be Dwaedn Wyr, but I'm pretty sure they don't.

My guild doesn't have anything to wear with virtues stamped on it, but we're encouraged and expected to be clever and sneaky and never get caught because we're the best of the best when it comes to stealthy stuff. That doesn't mean we never fail. We end up with our hands caught in the cookie jar, our faces on wanted posters, our sad selves in jails, and our reputations in towns ruined.

Dwaedn get bested in battle, Monks lose their light, Snowpiners starve in the wilderness, Artisans produce misshapen lumps of metal. Crap happens, even to the best who specialize against the crap happening to them.

And fear does affect canim. You just don't want to be around when it happens. There wasn't much left of that mummer.

That's half my point, as to what Teek said. And there are already mechanics IG to compensate for a lot of things. I am just asking that as a Wyrvardn Knight's, bearing "COURAGE" across our armor with the rest of the Tenets of our Order, that we have some way to train our mental state to endure against fears. NOT to make us immune to it. That is just plain ridiculous. No one is ever immune to fears.

Bryce wrote:It's like when people get mad when I footstomp or nutkick them, because they want to RP their character as someone tough as nails who can shrug off pain. Well that's great, but it doesn't mean your character gets a special pass to be immune to things. I think it's more about people not wanting to ever look the fool.

Well, Bryce, I know from a good fact that if you try to footstomp or nutkick solid metal, it's just not going to work. I have seen it tried! And fail. Plate armor has that way with those kind of things. And, I just laughed at the attempts that were made. Even a good greathelm guards against some of the Dirty Trick tactics.

Point is, we have this skill IG:

Meditation:
Meditation is the ability to keep one's mind clear and focused. It generally synergizes well with mental and magical skills, allowing one to avoid interruption of casting and channeling, and also helps a bit at warding off mental attacks.

Not asking for any "magical" abilities, just an ability for a mental ability, driven from long hard training to stand bravely against the effects of Nethrim and other similar effects. And, no, I am not asking for an ability to constantly stand there in while facing Dorn and his constant failing of casting fear on a person, as funny as that would be. That sort of Fear should be more... it doesn't last as long as it would for others? Able to shake it off more quickly? Perhaps?

I agree with a lot of your second post there, Bryce, yeah.. there are times that we do fail in doing things. We're just asking an improved way to resist the effects of fear, driven by a lot of tainted creatures. Iron gives shielding from a lot of sorcery based damage or cold damage. A good shield blocks that too, even better. But, it doesn't prevent us from being drained by nethrim. Or prevent us taking flight in fear from the howl of a Werewolf. Or, stop us from being half going mad as we 'head for the hill' at the wail of a Lich.

Morcant according to the Lore so far, was a Templar before forming the Wyrvardn. So offering training and insight to withstand some of the effects of Nethrim is reasonable. Yes, I get the point we're not Templars, so that we can't stand there practically immune to most Fear effects, when we have our 'Halo's of light' up. That is why it such a great thing to fight Nethrim in the company of a Templar. But, that is not the case, most of the time. And this is why I ask, for the idea of some ability to train our mental abilities to some degree.

One thign meditation isnt a thing any more. Second if certain guilds have abilities that can inspire fear, why cant some resist it i'm not saying all fear everywhere. but if say a dwad roars at you. and a wearwolf fears you those are two difrint kinds of fear. well they should be anyway