CLOK BBS

Guess what's starting tonight!

There will be a few RP events occurring throughout the week and next weekend (including the return of the storytelling contests so start preparing! Stories should be spring oriented.). There are a bunch of awesome shops with fun items in them, and lots of yummy food.

And, just like last year, there will be an auction. I will announce when all the auction items have been released and the bidding can begin. Rules of the auction will also be announced at that time. But for now, some of the items are on display. No, these items do not cost 2 million riln. They are in the shop so the distinguished gentleman can tell you all about them.

As with last year, lots and lots of thanks to Avedri's player, who loves designing fancy things so I don't have to.

Some general information about the auction:

Many of the smaller, less fancy items will have multiple versions with identical scripts, and slightly different descriptions. These items may or may not be announced ahead of time.

Items will not go to inappropriate owners - if, for example, the item needs a home, it won't go to owners without a house. Dorms or other tiny, cramped, or public spaces don't count. Saying "Oh, I live with <name>," won't fly, either.

Items will be added until I announce (in many places) that all the items have been released.

There won't be a single auction (with the exception of the treehouse) - bids will be mailed in - so you don't have to worry about not being available at the correct time.

More information to come later!

Sunday at 7:00 PM Mountain, there may be a storytelling event.

I say may be because the only thing I will be doing for the event is providing the venue and starting it. All stories will need to be told by players. And if there aren't enough PCs that want to tell stories, it won't happen. So please let me know if you will be telling a story. Can be long or short - doesn't matter, but it does need to be appropriate to the festival - about spring and/or (prefer and) human innovation/creativity/power.

There may or may not be some sort of prize - depends on how many people participate. And even if you don't choose to tell a story (which would be lame) you can come and listen.

The auction is now live! Please read the rules, as the excuse of "I didn't know" won't be acceptable. The auction is a second price sealed bid auction. The winner (highest bidder) will pay the price that the runner-up bid. If necessary, NPCs will bid on items. You may say, "Why would NPCs bid on items? They can't use them! That's lame!" but if people don't bid what I think the value of these items are, that's they way it will be.

The benefit of a second price auction is there is no incentive to game the system. You're dominant strategy is to bid as much as you are willing to pay. There's no reason to think "Not many people will want item X, so I'm going to bid really low." If you bid really low, you could be out-bid. If you bid high and win it, you don't have to pay that much, just how much the next highest person bid.

Auction Rules

1. The auction will close Monday at noon Mountain. All bids must be submitted by then.

2. You can only win one item. I don't care that it's OOC, that's the way it is. If you try to get around this by having friends buy items from you or anything else, I will take the item back without giving a refund.

3. If you bid on more than one item, you must list them in order of preference. If you don't do this, I will take your order of preference based on how much you bid.

4. Furniture and pets will only go to home owners. Do not bother bidding if you do not own your own home.

5. You must have the highest amount you bid on an item available in a bank and you must specify which bank that is. If you do not do this, your bid will be discarded.

6. You can only bid once. No changing your bids, either up or down, once you've submitted them. So bid how much you are willing to pay for it the first time.

7. Bids can be mailed in game or out. All the relevant information must be included. Don't mess up, since you only get one bid. You can send NPCmail to auctioneer or email.

If you need clarification on a rule or whatever (don't bother asking for exceptions to be made) post here. If there is something I forgot, I will post here, so check before you bid.

Items that will have multiple versions:
Compass (all items will be similar, perhaps made out of different material)
Birds (there will be at least four different cages all with the same scripts)
Sheaths (sheaths will be identical)
Pocket watches (if demand is high enough)
Jewelry box (if demand is high enough)

Demand being high enough does not mean that two people want it so they both get it. I have a number in mind - if that number is passed, I'll release more.

Clarification sought: Suppose I have enough to cover my bid in three towns if I add it up. Am I required to move it all to one town's bank vault? And to which town?

Rules say you gotta specify which bank it is, so just pick one and put all your money there.

Two questions.

1. With the piano, will the winner receive a point in piano skill so that they can gain skill in playing it, or will there be an npc that knows it that they can train from?

2. How will bids for multiple items work? Will you just take the top however many bids?

Clarification sought:
Alts.
One alt for the auction, to prevent too many alts from one player getting all the fancy stuff while the rest of the playerbase is left out?
Curious and all that.

faylen wrote:Two questions.

1. With the piano, will the winner receive a point in piano skill so that they can gain skill in playing it, or will there be an npc that knows it that they can train from?

2. How will bids for multiple items work? Will you just take the top however many bids?

1. I'm not going to release something that doesn't work without being very clear about it.

2. Not sure how else it would work.

Karasi wrote:Clarification sought:
Alts.
One alt for the auction, to prevent too many alts from one player getting all the fancy stuff while the rest of the playerbase is left out?
Curious and all that.

No restriction on alts winning things.

Rithiel wrote:
7. Bids can be mailed in game or out. All the relevant information must be included. Don't mess up, since you only get one bid. You can send NPCmail to auctioneer or email.

If you need clarification on a rule or whatever (don't bother asking for exceptions to be made) post here. If there is something I forgot, I will post here, so check before you bid.

For clarification, the e-mail you mentioned is to rithiel@contrarium.net, is it not?

As for the sheaths, are they closeable or otherwise theft-proof? Because frankly, I grow weary of a certain Mr Stickyfingers taking my knives from me, and most of their value would hinge on whether they are closeable or theft-proof.

Rithiel wrote:

faylen wrote:Two questions.

1. With the piano, will the winner receive a point in piano skill so that they can gain skill in playing it, or will there be an npc that knows it that they can train from?

2. How will bids for multiple items work? Will you just take the top however many bids?

1. I'm not going to release something that doesn't work without being very clear about it.

2. Not sure how else it would work.

Perhaps Faylen was wondering, If Faylen submits four different bids, will only her highest bid on her list be entered into play?

Items will be slowly going out over the next week (ish). A number of items didn't end up being sold, due to either bids that were way too low, lack of bids, or people not following directions. Winners and prices will not be revealed, although if you won an item you'll be told how much was taken out of your bank account. I will not be saying which items didn't sell, nor will I announce how many of a particular item were provided. If you have questions, you can send email. Please do not send in game mail.

I just want to thank Rithiel and Avedri for doing such a great job with the festival (and anyone else who worked on it, of course). The area felt really alive, I loved all the different NPC actions and little shops with interesting things for sale. There were way more auction items than I expected, and I really liked the format that the auction took.

I'm not just writing this because I, personally, struggled with knowing what were appropriate bids. I know at least one other who had the same struggles.

I'd like to suggest something for any future auctions.

Could we please have a starting bid, so we at least have some idea of what is appropriate or fair?

It's very difficult when someone says, bid what you would be willing to pay, only to find out later that some items were not sold due to, among other things, bids being way too low. The only way we can fix that is by knowing where you feel the bids should start.

I know some GM's like to be more secretive about certain things, but this just makes it that much more difficult for people who may struggle with knowing what kind of numbers you're looking for. It's kind of like being told to write a poem, writing it, being told it's wrong, but not knowing why.

Karasi wrote:Could we please have a starting bid, so we at least have some idea of what is appropriate or fair?

It's very difficult when someone says, bid what you would be willing to pay, only to find out later that some items were not sold due to, among other things, bids being way too low. The only way we can fix that is by knowing where you feel the bids should start.

I know some GM's like to be more secretive about certain things, but this just makes it that much more difficult for people who may struggle with knowing what kind of numbers you're looking for. It's kind of like being told to write a poem, writing it, being told it's wrong, but not knowing why.

The format of the auction should have made this unnecessary.

Rithiel wrote:The auction is now live! Please read the rules, as the excuse of "I didn't know" won't be acceptable. The auction is a second price sealed bid auction. The winner (highest bidder) will pay the price that the runner-up bid. If necessary, NPCs will bid on items. You may say, "Why would NPCs bid on items? They can't use them! That's lame!" but if people don't bid what I think the value of these items are, that's they way it will be.

The benefit of a second price auction is there is no incentive to game the system. You're dominant strategy is to bid as much as you are willing to pay. There's no reason to think "Not many people will want item X, so I'm going to bid really low." If you bid really low, you could be out-bid. If you bid high and win it, you don't have to pay that much, just how much the next highest person bid.

This means that you bid your ceiling. You bid whatever the maximum amount you'd be willing to pay is. It cuts out the usual auction practice of slowly escalating bids until one person beats out the other's ceiling by having us open up with our ceilings. At what point would you have crossed the line between "I'm really glad I got what I wanted" and "I paid too much for this"? That's what you bid, but since the auction was a second price auction, that isn't what you pay. You pay whatever the next-highest bid was, or how much you would have paid in a traditional auction to beat that bid.

As an example, I wanted a compass. I was willing to pay 10,000 riln, but I got it for 5,000 riln.

At a traditional auction, I would have shown up with everyone else (except those people who couldn't be online at that time which is one reason Rithiel went with the format she did), and the auctioneer would have opened up with "starting bid is 2,000 riln" or something. Person A says 2,000. I say 3,000. Person B says 3,500. Person A says 4,000, and Person B stops bidding. I say 5,000 and Person A stops bidding because I just went over his threshold. He's not willing to pay more than that for a compass. I get the compass not for the 10,000 I was willing to pay but for the 5,000 needed to beat him.

In this auction, Person A submitted a bid of 5,000, Person B submitted a bid of 3,500, and I submitted a bid of 10,000. Rithiel looked at the bids, and deducted not the 10,000 from my account but the 5,000 needed to match/beat Persons A and B. I won, but I didn't win for the full amount of my maximum bid. The end result is the same, and one of those persons could have been an NPC to create an effective minimum bid.

What you're suggesting is that the auctioneer should have said that starting bids were 2,000, but that wouldn't have changed the end result: People were simply bidding too low. I suspect they would have still bid something like 2,500 ("I only need to beat the starting bid, and I don't want to bid too much or I'll lose a bunch of riln for no reason," which is not how the auction worked), and then I'd have come along with my 10,000 riln ceiling and still gotten the compass for 5,000.

There's no reason to hold back with this kind of auction. You simply write down your maximum bid and let Rithiel figure out who would have won and for how much. And one of the nice things about this kind of auction is that you don't have to try and figure out your chances of winning your preferred item later in the auction, like you would with a traditional auction, and then maybe lose your chance at winning anything because you didn't bid earlier ("I don't want to win this item because then I can't bid on what I really want") and were then outbid later. You write down all of your bids, for all items, in the preference that you'd like to receive them, and you get what you would have gotten in the best-case scenario.

I do wish there was maybe a live auction for the items unsold. This could be a fun end to the festival event as well as help drain out some lingering riln from the pockets of those who did not get to spend it.

If not, can we expect a wrap-up event for the festival otherwise?

HUGS AND CAMPFIRES ALL DAY

North Tribe 4 eva

Honestly, I stopped thinking about Festival events after nobody seemed to care about the first two. I wouldn't be averse to live-auctioning off some of the remaining items, but most of me feels like nobody would be willing to be pulled from whatever skill grinding they're doing that day.

First off, I'm sorry that things didn't work out for those two events. I know that had to be incredibly frustrating.

Faylen would have totally loved that treehouse, but since she already has a home she didn't qualify. As for the story one, I considered participating but hit writer's block and totally couldn't even think of an idea, never mind actually write something. If she had the option of selling her current home to get the treehouse, that totally would have happened. Still I'm just one person, and having no one show interest in either, yeah, I'd be frustrated, too.

As for the auction, I apparently bid too low on everything, heh. Part of the problem was being unfamiliar with these type of auctions and feeling kind of at a loss for what to bid. That's my own failure. Were there to be a live auction and I knew when it was, I would do everything I could to be there. There's one item in particular i really wanted that I don't think anyone got, but some of the others I'd be glad to have too, if that first didn't work out. Not to mention, I hate the idea of any gms putting so much work into coding items only to have them not even be used by anyone. It just seems sad and like a waste of good time and items.

So, consider this a definite interest in the auction. Long as it's not tomorrow afternoon or sunday morning, I'll be there.

I think what happened (or didn't happen, I guess) with the treehouse auction and the story-telling competitions is sad. I attended the auction, even though I had no intention of (or qualifications for) bidding, because I love IC events. I was ready on the storytelling day as well, although I didn't RSVP OOC or anything.

I love the IG events that GMs run, and will always make time to take part in them. I know other players feel the same way. I don't know how we can raise player engagement in events, and I'm worried we might end up in a vicious cycle of GMs not running events because players don't take part, and players not taking part because events aren't actually run.

Player events yo! The responsibility doesn't solely fall on the shoulders of our illustrious GMs. Speaking of which, check the boards tonight.

Thanks, Elystole. I appreciate your laying this out for me.
Honestly, I really do feel stupid when I don't think of what's so obvious and clear to everyone else. I bid what I thought the items might go for, and form some not always the max. I'll be bidding differently next time.

Faylen wrote:

"
Faylen would have totally loved that treehouse, but since she already has a home she didn't qualify. As for the story one, I considered participating but hit writer's block and totally couldn't even think of an idea, never mind actually write something. If she had the option of selling her current home to get the treehouse, that totally would have happened. Still I'm just one person, and having no one show interest in either, yeah, I'd be frustrated, too.

As for the auction, I apparently bid too low on everything, heh. Part of the problem was being unfamiliar with these type of auctions and feeling kind of at a loss for what to bid. That's my own failure. Were there to be a live auction and I knew when it was, I would do everything I could to be there. There's one item in particular i really wanted that I don't think anyone got, but some of the others I'd be glad to have too, if that first didn't work out. Not to mention, I hate the idea of any gms putting so much work into coding items only to have them not even be used by anyone. It just seems sad and like a waste of good time and items.

"So, consider this a definite interest in the auction. Long as it's not tomorrow afternoon or sunday morning, I'll be there."

I second this in its entirety.

I get writer's block, don't know what I would tell in my story, and I didn't do the treehouse auction because my char has a home, though I'd willingly give it up if it meant getting what Karasi longs for--a place in the middle of nowhere.

I'm so sorry you're feeling that way, Rithiel. I wish I could help somehow. I wish I could tap into my creativity and really put forth some nice stories, but honestly, I feel like I'm terrible with lore, and I've never been a very good storyteller. I love hearing what other people tell, I'm just not good at it myself, which is sad.

I'm always excited for GM-run events. Always. Please don't give up on the playerbase.

The festival will close this Sunday night. I'm deciding if there will be some sort of event.

It's officially closed.