ESP and alt-swapping

[Barius]

Is it accepted to move from one character to another based on what you hear in-game, especially on ESP? ICly, is it safe to assume these characters are always listening and might pop up anytime? Or is it considered OOCly meta-gaming to do so?

[blindndangerous]

I would think it's metagaming. For me, if something starts and I'm on a character, I will not switch, even if I know that another character would be more suited to the task at hand. It's the one that's awake, and it's the one I'm going to stay with. I'll change when the event is over and a little time has passed.

[rstrunk]

I'd be interested to get GM feedback on this one, as I could see cases when it might come in handy. While I think it metagaming to switch to another character for purposes of material gain--a locksmith logging on, for example--there are certain situations where certain characters might be more applicable.
One of my characters is a pacifist. During invations he either gets in the way or runs away. Another character, however, is absolutely a fighter, and he would receive some storyline benefit from being involved in such an event.
I'd be curious to read more thoughts, however.

[Zoiya]

I cringe when I see this. I am a firm believer that any character can get involved in a story, no matter their faction or status.

Sometimes it just means you have to think outside of the box, to be involved.

Sometimes it's best to let someone else have the fun.

[Barius]

Do you have any feedback on the original question though, Zoiya?


I don't only mean specific instances where there is a storyline event going on. I mean more in a general sense. Say if you have a character with the lockpicking skill and someone on ESP is asking for a locksmith. Is this frowned upon?

[Zoiya]

Do you have any feedback on the original question though, Zoiya?


I don't only mean specific instances where there is a storyline event going on. I mean more in a general sense. Say if you have a character with the lockpicking skill and someone on ESP is asking for a locksmith. Is this frowned upon?

I see this happen fairly frequently and since we are a small mud, there are going to be a LOT of times when what you need isn't available. The only time I would be frowny-face about someone doing this is if someone was available and they were not even considered when it came to asking for services. When we see someone log in and have people who offer services just DROP in where that person is located. It's a facepalm thing. Sure you want to go to your friends, you want to RP with your friends. However, in doing this you are denying yourself the opportunity to meet someone new. Someone who might be fun to interact with.

TL;DR

Sure, if it seems appropriate and nobody is answering a query for a service, and you can provide it on an alt and you're willing, do it.

[Barius]

Makes sense. Thanks.

[rstrunk]

... any character can get involved in a story, no matter their faction or status.

Sometimes it just means you have to think outside of the box, to be involved.

Sometimes it's best to let someone else have the fun.

This response isn't to debate policy. What you laid out in another post makes perfect sense, and I appreciate the clarification. You raise an interesting point, though, about characters and the situations they fit into, and I'm curious as to your--and others'--thoughts on something.
Yesterday's invasion of Haiban caught Olrich up in its midst, but it was purely a matter of happenstance. He agreed to meet someone there to have his pickaxe repaired, and it wasn't until he was nearly to Haiban that the invasion began. I was able to use it as an opportunity to let Olrich serve as a sort of foil, obsessing over the state of his pickaxe as people were being slaughtered around him. Even as he was making his way to Haiban, though, the responses were predictable: "Turn around." "It's not safe." "Come back later."
I like the way the scene played out, but it was more a matter of luck than anything. Olrich is peaceful, choosing to run away rather than fight, and in most other circumstances, he would stay as far away from an invasion as possible. From an OOC perspective, I would also get tired of playing the character who is constantly underfoot during such events.
In that instance, I would be tempted to log on a fighting character to let him get some development out of that scene rather than having Olrich stay away from it, but I also understand that can create another problem--the sort where people log on their fighters to mop up an invasion too quickly and take the drama out of it. I wouldn't advocate for that, and I would be pretty irritated at those who do.
I agree that sometimes characters should sit events out, and in Olrich's case, he should sit quite a few out, but it's the quite a few that makes me wonder: are there other types of events that take place? Granted I have not been active on Clok for very long, but it appears that many of the short events are combat-based. For a pacifist, this makes it a challenge to take an active role.
Thanks for any thoughts you have. As a roleplayer, I want involvement in events, but I want it in such a way that it's both engaging for me and sensible for my characters.

[Barius]

Events in general are very right-place right-time sorts of situations. Most of the ones that get a lot of attention seem to be combat-based, though. The ones that aren't are likely the ones you don't really tend to hear about, at least ICly.


That being said, Olrich could have ignored people telling him to stay away and went to check out what was going on, but maybe that's not in his character. Either way, it's an interesting topic to discuss.

[rstrunk]

... Olrich could have ignored people telling him to stay away and went to check out what was going on, but maybe that's not in his character.

That's actually what he did, but it was only because he was there. He isn't the type to run into danger, so even if something was going on nearby, he wouldn't go check it out. He's just not that type of guy. My other char, though, would have been all over it.

[jilliana]

I have pretty strong feelings about this.

I set rules for myself in order that I don't feel like I am metagaming. An example would be that if I'm doing absolutely nothing with an alt, I will allow myself to switch over if there is anyone I need to talk to as another character. I am not going to interrupt an alt's RP just to switch over though. As for the things I hear on ESP, I consider it a clean slate to log into an alt from another.

There is nothing more annoying than that one person who logs an alt just so they become the hero of the event. Everyone needs a turn.

Also, Rias posted something about the GM staff's point of view on alt swapping. I wish I had enough brainpower right now to go looking for it.

[Sleilax]

I have no alts and I don't intend to have one for quite a while but I was curious about the concept that alts don't know what is happening on ESP if you aren't logged on. IC that makes no sense to me unless we assume our characters are unconscious/asleep while we aren't logged in. I assume my character is still living his life for the most part but in a way that's not entirely visible to the public. If something was said on ESP I would assume he would have heard about it (of course he can only really know about it if I was playing to read about it) because of the nature of ESP. However, of course he wouldn't know of things that happened in a nonpublic/telepathic setting. Does this make sense?

[Barius]

I have no alts and I don't intend to have one for quite a while but I was curious about the concept that alts don't know what is happening on ESP if you aren't logged on. IC that makes no sense to me unless we assume our characters are unconscious/asleep while we aren't logged in. I assume my character is still living his life for the most part but in a way that's not entirely visible to the public. If something was said on ESP I would assume he would have heard about it (of course he can only really know about it if I was playing to read about it) because of the nature of ESP. However, of course he wouldn't know of things that happened in a nonpublic/telepathic setting. Does this make sense?

This was the reason for my question, yes. It made sense to me that you could swap for this reason, so long as you weren't unreasonably denying RP to others or otherwise being unfair with it. Which is what was clarified by Zoiya.

[Rias]

Here are two things you can assume about ESP: A) Your characters are capable of hearing it even when you're logged off. B) Its "reception" can fluctuate from character to character at times. B is primarily to explain why characters, both PC and NPC, might not know what's been being discussed over ESP, despite being technically awake and fully conscious the entire time. ESP isn't a perfect, flawless communication medium. Don't assume that all people have access to ESP, or that all people that do have access to ESP are listening all the time even if they would prefer to be.

Example: There's been a big old invasion of nethrim and people are going nuts talking about it on ESP. Bobby Templar logs in not knowing this, and says something on ESP like "What a beautiful day it is today!" Should everyone get on Bobby's case for not knowing that there's this big old nethrim invasion going on, and tell him he's a terrible Templar for not already knowing about/being involved in stopping it because of what's been being discussed on ESP? The answer is: No. Bobby can believably and ICly answer that he wasn't able to hear the chatter on ESP until just now, without needing to claim he was "asleep" or something. His ESP "reception" was bad until just now.

Getting back to the original question: It's a gray area. If you're on an alt, and something comes up that you want your other alt to do be involved in, it could be okay to swap, although I do think it's pretty tacky if your first alt is already involved in something and suddenly says "Hey guys, sorry, something just came up." (log off, switch to other alt)

An example of what we don't want to see is constantly hopping to an alt for every single situation. Say you're on your mercenary, helping someone fight some baddies for a task or just for training, or just for a fun group activity. Someone on ESP asks if there are any locksmiths, and suddenly your mercenary says "Gotta go!" and you swap to your locksmith and help out. Then someone asks for healing and bam! Log out your locksmith, log in your healer (be they monk or poultice/first aid specialist). Then someone yells about an invasion, but heck, you don't want to sit around healing, you want to be part of the action! So bam, log out your healer, log in your mercenary again. (Until someone needs healing. Then you switch back to your healer again to heal them.)

Ugh.

Also, as was already mentioned, try to avoid hopping to your alt that's perfect for a situation if someone's already around who can take that role. You don't have to be majorly involved in everything that goes on with all your alts. Let some other people take part and participate and be the limelighters. I can say that it's a supreme frustration when we try to get some of the newer or less-involved people in on things by giving them an opportunity to step up, but instead someone else steps in and says, "Don't worry citizen, I'll handle this!" Or, you know, just runs in and snipes the opportunity before someone else can get to it.

I can understand the "Well, my character would be listening to ESP even if I'm not logged in, and they would totally help in a situation" mentality, but we ask that you take it easy, relax a while, and give people whom are already present a chance to handle things before you bust out your Swiss Army Alt Knife For All Occasions.

I tend to give a lot more leeway if it's a situation that your alt character has been previously majorly involved in. As long as your current alt isn't currently invested in something, then by all means, jump over to continue your alt's involvement.

[blindndangerous]

I guess I should clarify what I do. If something is happening, and my current character is not doing anything of importance, (that is, not talking/helping some one with something, just by himself really) than I'll switch out for some one that is more suited to the situation especially if they have previous involvement in it. I won't go and just say hey, gotta go, and switch out. That's just a jerk move in my opinion. From what I'm understanding that is ok to do?

[Barius]

B) Its "reception" can fluctuate from character to character at times.

I've never heard this mentioned before. Good to know.

[blindndangerous]

Neither have I, thanks for this.

[Rias]

Also regarding non-combat events: They happen fairly often, but they tend to not be talked about over ESP and such nearly as much, so usually they're only known of by the people who were involved. When a combat-focused event happens, people nearly always talk about it on ESP to try and get as much help as possible (which is great!) so those are the ones everyone hears about all the time.

That said, we're happy to put effort into more non-combat events. They do have a higher tendency to be ignored when we try to get them rolling, though, so that can be discouraging from a GM standpoint.

[jilliana]

Also regarding non-combat events: They happen fairly often, but they tend to not be talked about over ESP and such nearly as much, so usually they're only known of by the people who were involved. When a combat-focused event happens, people nearly always talk about it on ESP to try and get as much help as possible (which is great!) so those are the ones everyone hears about all the time.

That said, we're happy to put effort into more non-combat events. They do have a higher tendency to be ignored when we try to get them rolling, though, so that can be discouraging from a GM standpoint.

I think it's safe to say that like the combat events where people like to play hero. the same could be said for some non-combat events. There are also the cases wher e people try to get folks involved or invited, but nothing happens because it's not exciting or heroic enough.

[Jaster]

The best events are the private ones that occur when you're least expecting it. You really feel valued as a player when a GM takes the time to do something that nobody else will ever see and, most likely, never even hear about.

[jilliana]

The best events are the private ones that occur when you're least expecting it. You really feel valued as a player when a GM takes the time to do something that nobody else will ever see and, most likely, never even hear about.

Ditto!! :)

[blindndangerous]

Absolutely.

[baerden]

I don't like alts. And I don't like swapping. So, I guess I don't like alt-swapping.

I think there should be a hard limit on how many alts you're allowed to have. Something like, three. With an IC option for killing off characters you've made through some in game mechanic to free up a character slot, so that you can 'dip your toes in the water' and try out other professions but not have an unlimited amount of alts.

I'm sure that's an incredibly unpopular opinion though.


Ninja Edit.

[Zoiya]

I don't like alts. And I don't like swapping. So, I guess I don't like alt-swapping.

I think there should be a hard limit on how many alts you're allowed to have. Something like, three.

I'm sure that's an incredibly unpopular opinion though.

/agree

We can be unpopular together.

[blindndangerous]

It is, and I hope that doesn't get put in.