Hello guys
Not once, not twice but a lot of times, I've heard some newer artisans, usually those within 5-6 years or newer, running into issues of spending riln. Creativity was suggested, yet the problem still persists. Now with legendary crafted metal added, even with one in 400 chances, they can easily make 50k riln out of it using just cheap copper if they want to. Then the complain continues.
I'm not sure what's with artisans these days lacking ideas on riln spending. Some of them even say they're bored because they don't have anything to spend riln on. Not that we don't have enough ways to spend it. But having more may help:
- More furnitures
- More herbalism stuff
- Add legendary to anything from leather to wood to even stone. Oh, and more stone tools.
- Add something crazy like exotic food supplies, more wood types, harder to obtain stuff, something non-artisans have better chance of getting for artisans.
- Make artisans riln spending guide somewhere.
- Add more fancies. We have 200k wall clock some people don't bother. I don't even know how many artisans have homes. How about...something else, something more?
Blacksmiths make the most now. Everyone wants to be blacksmith and they end up throwing something that had value back then, like masterful steel executioner's swords in the public crate because they can't sell. Newer artisans only make it worse by mass producing and flooding the market with everything they can make. And it doesn't seem that they want to stop crafting either. Some only do it to grind. Some have nothing to do. In the end, blacksmiths economy is in chrisis and people want to give up playing something as cheap and op like blacksmith. Yet still, as soon as new artisans join the guild, smithing almost always comes first. Not many people do leather these days. Not many people bother with something else aside from mass producing exquisite bows. They don't have legendary quality. Why bother? And it's super easy to produce exquisite. Even masterful is easy. And not many newer folks know the real value of hard to find metals either.
Just a suggestion for consideration. I'd love to see anything coming as an edition to this, if possible, before everyone stops playing artisan altogether due to blacksmithing chrisis.
More ways for complaining artisans to make riln
More ways for complaining artisans to make riln
Last edited by artus on Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[CHAT - Event Staff Uyoku likes NOM NOM NOM food]: You are holding a pepper-grilled Uyoku in your right hand.
This GM has been peppered and grillef over an open flame to a juicy perfection.
This GM has been peppered and grillef over an open flame to a juicy perfection.
Re: More ways for complaining artisans to make riln
*puts up flame shield*
Another thing that might help is having the artisans actually rely on their namesake sister branch of mercenaries and other players to spend riln on guard services and cleanup.
One thing that might help is to bring up the more deadlier combat situations in mines. I've seen the roll s of the mobs that spawn in, and they tend to be low. usually, an artisan can get any single person or two to clear out the mine, and they tend to do it for free since it was barely any hassle.
Now, if the Artisan had an infestation of higher skilled mmobiles of stronger creatures. or uh, the golden Dracolin spawns, then one might have to consider hiring a group of mercenaries and other org players to clear out their mines and paying them for the service of reclaiming their mines.
...A far less popular idea for a riln sink. remove a majority of the precious metal spawns from glittering caverns and random prospecting from player mines. The best metal one can get from a player mine should be cobalt.
move said precious metals deep into enemy territories. Maybe boost the chance of prospecting one of them with a larger yield due to not having a safe mine to conduct their mass mining. The same concept follows. If an Artisan wants a chance at digging up the good stuff, they're going to need to arrange an expedition into thaelsh, Stone canyon and other hostile zones, and have people guard them for a few hours while they dig and try not to get trampled by a nightmare. of course, for the players time having to get battered by far stronger mobiles (and maybe unique mining events in these areas) the Artisan is going to need to pay their help in riln for getting themselves and their cargo out of these zones.
If you're having trouble attracting people to stand guard for you, increase the guard pay to your Pc subjects. maybe get to know them while you mine, wondering if a Roc is hovering by and staring down at you. Scream girlishly as the local environmental terrorists decide you've made enough clanking noises.
Another thing that might help is having the artisans actually rely on their namesake sister branch of mercenaries and other players to spend riln on guard services and cleanup.
One thing that might help is to bring up the more deadlier combat situations in mines. I've seen the roll s of the mobs that spawn in, and they tend to be low. usually, an artisan can get any single person or two to clear out the mine, and they tend to do it for free since it was barely any hassle.
Now, if the Artisan had an infestation of higher skilled mmobiles of stronger creatures. or uh, the golden Dracolin spawns, then one might have to consider hiring a group of mercenaries and other org players to clear out their mines and paying them for the service of reclaiming their mines.
...A far less popular idea for a riln sink. remove a majority of the precious metal spawns from glittering caverns and random prospecting from player mines. The best metal one can get from a player mine should be cobalt.
move said precious metals deep into enemy territories. Maybe boost the chance of prospecting one of them with a larger yield due to not having a safe mine to conduct their mass mining. The same concept follows. If an Artisan wants a chance at digging up the good stuff, they're going to need to arrange an expedition into thaelsh, Stone canyon and other hostile zones, and have people guard them for a few hours while they dig and try not to get trampled by a nightmare. of course, for the players time having to get battered by far stronger mobiles (and maybe unique mining events in these areas) the Artisan is going to need to pay their help in riln for getting themselves and their cargo out of these zones.
If you're having trouble attracting people to stand guard for you, increase the guard pay to your Pc subjects. maybe get to know them while you mine, wondering if a Roc is hovering by and staring down at you. Scream girlishly as the local environmental terrorists decide you've made enough clanking noises.
[CHAT - GameMaster Uyoku Had Pizza For Dinner]: Spidercat, spidercat, does whatever a spidercat does. Skittering, up the walls, meowing cute while showing off its claws, it is the creepy spidercat.
Re: More ways for complaining artisans to make riln
While i'm fundamentally opposed to the idea of removing the prettier things from glittering caverns based on how rare their occurences are already, the idea of putting shiny, valuable resources in the midst of horrifying, dangerous enemy territory is delightfully enticing. I love my endless swarms of death trying to kill my buddies while I hold the line. (Just ask the Shadgard Militia!)Vazbol wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:36 pm *puts up flame shield*
Another thing that might help is having the artisans actually rely on their namesake sister branch of mercenaries and other players to spend riln on guard services and cleanup.
One thing that might help is to bring up the more deadlier combat situations in mines. I've seen the roll s of the mobs that spawn in, and they tend to be low. usually, an artisan can get any single person or two to clear out the mine, and they tend to do it for free since it was barely any hassle.
Now, if the Artisan had an infestation of higher skilled mmobiles of stronger creatures. or uh, the golden Dracolin spawns, then one might have to consider hiring a group of mercenaries and other org players to clear out their mines and paying them for the service of reclaiming their mines.
...A far less popular idea for a riln sink. remove a majority of the precious metal spawns from glittering caverns and random prospecting from player mines. The best metal one can get from a player mine should be cobalt.
move said precious metals deep into enemy territories. Maybe boost the chance of prospecting one of them with a larger yield due to not having a safe mine to conduct their mass mining. The same concept follows. If an Artisan wants a chance at digging up the good stuff, they're going to need to arrange an expedition into thaelsh, Stone canyon and other hostile zones, and have people guard them for a few hours while they dig and try not to get trampled by a nightmare. of course, for the players time having to get battered by far stronger mobiles (and maybe unique mining events in these areas) the Artisan is going to need to pay their help in riln for getting themselves and their cargo out of these zones.
If you're having trouble attracting people to stand guard for you, increase the guard pay to your Pc subjects. maybe get to know them while you mine, wondering if a Roc is hovering by and staring down at you. Scream girlishly as the local environmental terrorists decide you've made enough clanking noises.
Seriously though. Maybe a new area with resources and super dangerous mobs? This is worth putting thought into in some regard, really. lots of great potential there.
Re: More ways for complaining artisans to make riln
Probably just making the current mining experience a lot more physically painful and have less of a yield for the rare stuff might do it perhaps. Having to pay for folks to clear out resen infestations from cave worm tunnels or a shiny dracolin would already spread the horded wealth throughout the playerbase. Granted, it probably shouldn't be so consistant that one is bankrupt from yet another attack by exploding rock lizards. But enough where dumping 50k riln doesn't lead to infinite riln without further costs outside of the cheap creation of more supports.
though, the issue right now with a glittering cavern is that between endlessly hammering a wall or risking being annihilated by a yeti 3 times your size, many would probably go for the less hassling option. I'm having trouble picturing how best to balance spawn rates for those metals to make it worth it to hire a few folks to cover you for a while and not trashing the economy further with excess metals. Also, it seems certain players would stick with the mines and avoiding conflicts with factions in stone canyon. Maybe the removal of one or two metals entirely and placed in those riskier territories might finally stir up some profit minded folks to start an interboarder incident and stop having things be so peaceful and uneventful.
maybe lowering total mineral and metal yields from glittering caverns, and giving these resource node locations the ability to mine veins with more than one chunk might make artisans go for the expedition option? bit of Rp for them to use their money to hire a caravan for the day of other players and head into new and dangerous locations. For the Artisans who try it out, having them come back successful and with larger piles of rarer stuff compared to the guy trying to pray for another shiny cavern for 6 units of bloodsand might get the point across?
though, the issue right now with a glittering cavern is that between endlessly hammering a wall or risking being annihilated by a yeti 3 times your size, many would probably go for the less hassling option. I'm having trouble picturing how best to balance spawn rates for those metals to make it worth it to hire a few folks to cover you for a while and not trashing the economy further with excess metals. Also, it seems certain players would stick with the mines and avoiding conflicts with factions in stone canyon. Maybe the removal of one or two metals entirely and placed in those riskier territories might finally stir up some profit minded folks to start an interboarder incident and stop having things be so peaceful and uneventful.
maybe lowering total mineral and metal yields from glittering caverns, and giving these resource node locations the ability to mine veins with more than one chunk might make artisans go for the expedition option? bit of Rp for them to use their money to hire a caravan for the day of other players and head into new and dangerous locations. For the Artisans who try it out, having them come back successful and with larger piles of rarer stuff compared to the guy trying to pray for another shiny cavern for 6 units of bloodsand might get the point across?
[CHAT - GameMaster Uyoku Had Pizza For Dinner]: Spidercat, spidercat, does whatever a spidercat does. Skittering, up the walls, meowing cute while showing off its claws, it is the creepy spidercat.
Re: More ways for complaining artisans to spend riln
I think the keys to money sinks are recurring costs over time, paid for services and consumables. Not single buy items with huge price tags. Tbh, instead of spawning dangerous mobs in the mine whilst mining. it'd rather make more sense for the nearest nonmonster nPCs to try and occupy / take the mine for themselves. Sure maybe throw some infested in there if you want but if you're mine is in the bordering lands of a settlement like haiban I totally see black marketeers, bandits or the desperate showing up there to take it away from you.
Afterall, a mine is just a sheltered hole in the ground to a monster but to a person its thousands of riln in their pocket and I've always found the idea of finding monsters in the ground extremely unlikely. The current spawn rate of them is too high from a realistic ish stand point. And like stated in the posts above serves little purpose than a speed bump.
You could then implement a fun little guarding service that keeps the rifraff out, costs let's say 30k riln a month and install a guard shack, and 3 Mercenary NPCs at the entrance that have manual allow permissions for the owner and anyone they authorize.
It'd be interesting to show up one day to find your guards dead and your mine infested with 40x one time spawn scavengers with mattocks and pickaxes representing the local bandits because you haven't been prompt with your payments and the guards haven't been replaced / refreshed.
Also, whilst I'm still on the topic of mines, could we remove the digging restrictions from them please? It makes no sense that we can't dig a new tunnel out in a mine we don't own since there's nothing to physically stop us from doing so.
Secondly, you could just havfe a recurring cost that's an NPC digging service. pay a fee at the head office and NPCs will be sent out to dig out your entire mine for a flat fee or fee per rooms. the NPCs don't actually have to spawn or anything, but yeah, each room in your mine is maxed out in durability after an hour after you pay. After a while, given the low player count in general and the fact that digging is an extremely boring activity. it'd be a good way to circumvent people getting bored of mines and abandoning them.
I'd also like to see a weapon shop that artisans can actually throw their products, trash or good into for promotion or recognition points. The NPC consume rate in these shops should be extremely high for lower quality weapons and goods and the higher quality goods should go slowly. It should be one of those shops where a Merc can use recognition points to pick up good quality PC made equipment.
As its been stated above, PCs,, especially Artisans, tend to grind a lot of trash so the points gain for selling to this shop should be very low upfront, maybe only 0.1 or something like that. but when a Merc buys your Masterwork, the artisan should get a cut of that purchase. Literally its them gaining the recognition and renoun of someone purchasing and boasting about their products. This doesn't cost the artisan riln but it would be something nuonced to take the pressure off from having to make riln all the time.
But then, this would only be attractive after the revamp of the whole artisan rank recognition system is put in.
Next, I think its fair to say we've had a good long play test of the current rate of high quality product production. I for one would not mind seeing the maths behind this adjusted to suit the current player base. Nothing too complicated but I would like to see all chances of making each rank of quality at this point halved. So basically where people were semi regularly making masterwork stuff, that needs to be pushed up to where their only semi regularly making exquisites. Well crafted should be the norm and Masterwork should be somewhere between current masterwork rates but closer to the legendary end. With legendary being reduced down.
Or, given the near magical ability of legendary items not to degrade. Make the process of making legendary items require a low cost consumable magical ingredient with a price tag of 50 to 100 riln per pinch. Like Powdered Aetherium or somesuch. I feel the crafting system is still stuck in the old days when it was much harder to grind skills to a higher level and its caused this high quality imbalance.
Another idea that occurs to me are mounts. Give artisans an ability to purchase and use multiple mounts on the same wagon to speed it up further, or a hiring service to hire caravaneer NPCs to bring multiple wagons along at a time. The maths would have to be eye balled a bit closely upon initial implementation though. The idea is that its convenient enough that it becomes a must for players but just expensive enough that it cuts down rate of profit down in the short / medium term.
next and I think my final one should be fun for both players and GMs as I tend to have a lot of fun doing this with my own players in tabletops. Let players build player owned settlements and locations. I'm pretty sure if a GM approached a coalition,, heh, see what I did there,, of merchants and was like. I'm NPC Fithertonge featherfither of Feather town and I've found a really good place along the caper river to expand an outpost out into a propper town but we need 20 million riln, guards, materials etc. A lot of artisans would jump on that.
If the PCs have to provide the layout, room submitted room descriptions and amenity design for the settlement then all the GM has to do iscreate the rooms, exits and put in the objects bought and paid for. The Opis for this idea is that it should be relatively little work for each individual involved. is fun for everyone and sinks a large amount of riln all at once. and would continue to sink riln for years if town management was opened up later on.
In anycase,I'll leave it there for now. The idea is that whatever is implemented, it should be something that needs to be managed semi regularly and have a recurring cost. The ideas for rare resources in monster locations / tougher mine spawns is great but I don't think it directly helps the OP which is to give artisans something to spend money on. Given the fact that current drac hunts are technically also still done for free, I doubt having Gadora the world ender in a mine would force anyone to pay for anyone to go fight it since most people are too bored to refuse not to.
Afterall, a mine is just a sheltered hole in the ground to a monster but to a person its thousands of riln in their pocket and I've always found the idea of finding monsters in the ground extremely unlikely. The current spawn rate of them is too high from a realistic ish stand point. And like stated in the posts above serves little purpose than a speed bump.
You could then implement a fun little guarding service that keeps the rifraff out, costs let's say 30k riln a month and install a guard shack, and 3 Mercenary NPCs at the entrance that have manual allow permissions for the owner and anyone they authorize.
It'd be interesting to show up one day to find your guards dead and your mine infested with 40x one time spawn scavengers with mattocks and pickaxes representing the local bandits because you haven't been prompt with your payments and the guards haven't been replaced / refreshed.
Also, whilst I'm still on the topic of mines, could we remove the digging restrictions from them please? It makes no sense that we can't dig a new tunnel out in a mine we don't own since there's nothing to physically stop us from doing so.
Secondly, you could just havfe a recurring cost that's an NPC digging service. pay a fee at the head office and NPCs will be sent out to dig out your entire mine for a flat fee or fee per rooms. the NPCs don't actually have to spawn or anything, but yeah, each room in your mine is maxed out in durability after an hour after you pay. After a while, given the low player count in general and the fact that digging is an extremely boring activity. it'd be a good way to circumvent people getting bored of mines and abandoning them.
I'd also like to see a weapon shop that artisans can actually throw their products, trash or good into for promotion or recognition points. The NPC consume rate in these shops should be extremely high for lower quality weapons and goods and the higher quality goods should go slowly. It should be one of those shops where a Merc can use recognition points to pick up good quality PC made equipment.
As its been stated above, PCs,, especially Artisans, tend to grind a lot of trash so the points gain for selling to this shop should be very low upfront, maybe only 0.1 or something like that. but when a Merc buys your Masterwork, the artisan should get a cut of that purchase. Literally its them gaining the recognition and renoun of someone purchasing and boasting about their products. This doesn't cost the artisan riln but it would be something nuonced to take the pressure off from having to make riln all the time.
But then, this would only be attractive after the revamp of the whole artisan rank recognition system is put in.
Next, I think its fair to say we've had a good long play test of the current rate of high quality product production. I for one would not mind seeing the maths behind this adjusted to suit the current player base. Nothing too complicated but I would like to see all chances of making each rank of quality at this point halved. So basically where people were semi regularly making masterwork stuff, that needs to be pushed up to where their only semi regularly making exquisites. Well crafted should be the norm and Masterwork should be somewhere between current masterwork rates but closer to the legendary end. With legendary being reduced down.
Or, given the near magical ability of legendary items not to degrade. Make the process of making legendary items require a low cost consumable magical ingredient with a price tag of 50 to 100 riln per pinch. Like Powdered Aetherium or somesuch. I feel the crafting system is still stuck in the old days when it was much harder to grind skills to a higher level and its caused this high quality imbalance.
Another idea that occurs to me are mounts. Give artisans an ability to purchase and use multiple mounts on the same wagon to speed it up further, or a hiring service to hire caravaneer NPCs to bring multiple wagons along at a time. The maths would have to be eye balled a bit closely upon initial implementation though. The idea is that its convenient enough that it becomes a must for players but just expensive enough that it cuts down rate of profit down in the short / medium term.
next and I think my final one should be fun for both players and GMs as I tend to have a lot of fun doing this with my own players in tabletops. Let players build player owned settlements and locations. I'm pretty sure if a GM approached a coalition,, heh, see what I did there,, of merchants and was like. I'm NPC Fithertonge featherfither of Feather town and I've found a really good place along the caper river to expand an outpost out into a propper town but we need 20 million riln, guards, materials etc. A lot of artisans would jump on that.
If the PCs have to provide the layout, room submitted room descriptions and amenity design for the settlement then all the GM has to do iscreate the rooms, exits and put in the objects bought and paid for. The Opis for this idea is that it should be relatively little work for each individual involved. is fun for everyone and sinks a large amount of riln all at once. and would continue to sink riln for years if town management was opened up later on.
In anycase,I'll leave it there for now. The idea is that whatever is implemented, it should be something that needs to be managed semi regularly and have a recurring cost. The ideas for rare resources in monster locations / tougher mine spawns is great but I don't think it directly helps the OP which is to give artisans something to spend money on. Given the fact that current drac hunts are technically also still done for free, I doubt having Gadora the world ender in a mine would force anyone to pay for anyone to go fight it since most people are too bored to refuse not to.