new guild choice: The Locksmith's Guild

[Kent]

If you wish to pick locks in game, currently you can only do it via a path of break-and-enter many times.


I would like to propose that it be possible to role play someone who was trained in locksmithing, and only in that. Someone who went to a locksmithing institute such as are mentioned in the certificates on the wall of Old Lews' shop.


In this guild, the essential guild abilities would how to pick a lock, and how to craft a lock pick, at appropriate skill level.


If other ideas for guild abilities were needed, they might include how to copy a key, how to add or change a lock to/on a door or trunk, and, at higher levels, how to create a key for an existing lock.

[Sneaky]

It'd be a fun one I think, especially if you get to wave your certificate in a poser locksmith's face.

[Kiyaani]

How do we know Old Lews isn't pulling a fast one and his certificates are all fakes? Maybe the only locksmiths ARE the shady ones and they just pose as legitimate ;)

I do think having a non-thief or Utasa means of learning lockpicking might be nice, but I don't know that there's enough to it for a whole guild. I also don't know that it should be available to everyone as that would devalue the service. Maybe if a character wants to be a locksmith professional but their RP doesn't fit the current options, a good route would be to add something to the Coalition. I could easily see this being a skill someone specialized into blacksmithing or jewelerymaking (for finesse) might be able to develop.

[Maina]

Having an official locksmith "guild" just makes it more clear that thieves and Utasa are not "official" and kind of immediately outs them as shady, which is probably not desirable.

[Tenoji]

I also don't know that it should be available to everyone as that would devalue the service. Maybe if a character wants to be a locksmith professional but their RP doesn't fit the current options, a good route would be to add something to the Coalition.

This feels counter-intuitive to me, as it opens up locksmithing to a wider range of people while also expounding on a guild that casts a pretty wide net already. I don't disagree with the sentiment that it seems narrow in scope for an entire guild, but for people who are inclined to go the guildless route, this serves as a nice stopgap of adding something without tacking on a whole character defining 'role', per se.

Additionally, as long as the locksmith's guild doesn't give out actual certificates it doesn't necessary oust previously existing locksmiths as shady. Unless people get super meta about it.

[Nobody]

If you wish to pick locks in game, currently you can only do it via a path of break-and-enter many times.

That is one way, but it is, in fact, not the only way.

Regarding lockpick creation, I will quote the former head dev:

Lockpick crafting will remain thieves-only.

That might not stand, since Jirato isn't Rias, but I tend to think that on many matters they are of the same mind. Plus, there's also Rais' warning about letting anyone with a will open a box:

Going to the NPC is the alternative. Besides, if we make it so anyone with a hammer can bash open their boxes, those Thieves are going to spend a lot less time locksmithing, and a lot more time stealing the stuff you got by using alternative means to their services!

I think it applies pretty well to having more legitimate competition as well. The more locksmiths out there plying their trade, the less time those you might consider less savory will spend on that activity.

[Kiyaani]

I'll clarify my statement as it was not meant to be counter intuitive. I was more trying to be practical about it IF this goes into consideration. Since locksmithing seems to be engineering related (earliest locks being wooden or mechanics based and typically the skill requiring an apprenticeship) and the Coalition covers crafting... it seemed the logical choice within the current scope of the games. And I'm not saying every Coalition member should have access to it like any artisan can choose to specialize in multiple crafts rather than just one - it would have to be its own specialty somehow or potentially otherwise heavily gated ability. It should be something people have to make a hard choice on (as it currently is) rather than picked up easily.

By the way, I don't actually think the game needs another way for players to be locksmiths than what's offered. I think characters should be built around what's within the scope and lore of the game, rather than trying to mold the game to fit a concept - especially since GM coding time is at a premium. But again, it would be "nice" if there was an option for those dead set on that being their thing.

Also, thanks for pulling in those quotes, Nobody. I know this has been a hard stance before. Those are both pretty old quotes at this point, but I think the sentiment behind them remains current as far as game play.

[Bryce]

If you wish to pick locks in game, currently you can only do it via a path of break-and-enter many times.

You can get locksmithing up to cap without breaking and entering a single time.

I would like to propose that it be possible to role play someone who was trained in locksmithing, and only in that.

You want to train locksmithing, you have to use the channels available to you. Given the crazy post-plague quarantine zone with safe communities few and far between, it stands to reason that alternatives aren't always available and we may have to occasionally go outside our comfort zone a little to achieve what we set out to do.

Someone who went to a locksmithing institute such as are mentioned in the certificates on the wall of Old Lews' shop.

You're assuming:
A) Wherever Lews' certificates are from still exist (see how old they all look)
B) Lews' certificates are available from institutions within the Lost Lands (maybe he got them before being exiled to the Lost Lands for some reason)
C) Lews' certificates aren't actually themselves from the institutions you disapprove of
D) Lews' certificates are legitimate

The whole locksmithing skillset and knowledge of its workings are considered highly-guarded trade secrets. The existing organizations that teach them to their members are likely doing what they can to keep that knowledge from getting out, and I always imagine they'd find any independents and either absorb them or encourage them to find a different line of work.

I get what you're asking for and I understand, but the locksmithing availability situation, to me, is just another one of those Lost Lands Things, where we're all living in what really amounts to a pretty awful non-ideal part of the world where things can't always be clean and happy and align with our own personal moral compasses.

Game-reasoning-wise: Locksmithing is already the specific forte of one guild that currently exists, and is considered their specialization. Asking for another one is kind of like asking to have a second Artisan Guild for the people who don't want to deal with the Western Coalition for personal reasons.

[Nobody]

Game-reasoning-wise: Locksmithing is already the specific forte of one guild that currently exists, and is considered their specialization. Asking for another one is kind of like asking to have a second Artisan Guild for the people who don't want to deal with the Western Coalition for personal reasons.

It's not exactly the same as that, but it is quite similar. If you wanted to be an "unaffiliated artisan" you could do a lot of the things artisans do right now. It'd be more like asking for a cryomancer's guild because sorcery is so frowned upon.

That being said, I also wanted to add these thoughts to the conversation

• There *might* be a character who was raised among those of ill repute and at coming of age decides to adopt a more socially acceptable personal code of conduct without burning bridges. That character isn't going to tell you that they're one of the ones with personal morals, because it would admit that their fellows may lack them. They certainly wouldn't want to compromise their own reputation and risk their safety by admitting they associate with people of ill repute.
• There *might* be a member of the tse gaiyan that is all for killing the resen but who is uncomfortable with breaking and entering, so they personally don't. But they're not going to tell you that because that would involve admitting that some members do break into houses, and that'd be bad for their loyal comrades.

Not everyone with a set of picks is automatically shady. There are lots of ways to RP, and it's an RP mud after all =)
Edit to add: and actually, probably only very few characters even have knowledge of people with picks being shady. Plenty of people have that knowledge OOCly, but definitely not so many ICly.