Estocs

[Dorn]

Any chance Estocs can be turned into their more real-life equivalent instead of the weird rapier hybrid they are now?

[Jirato]

Personally, other than not currently having a hand-and-a-half grip, I feel CLOK estocs pretty accurately reflect real-world estocs. What exactly are you looking for?

[Dorn]

Mostly the hand-and-a-half, probably a reduction to their balance as well. More a specialized longsword, really. It's just weird to me that in their current form, they're probably the best weapon to use with a heavier shield.

[Noctere]

Using a heavier shield such as a kite shield or tower shield carry with them a lot of difficulties as they are big and heavy and it assumed that you are focusing more on defense rather than offense. If you want to focus more on offense but still carry a shield. Try using a small buckler. These can be easily wielded with TWC weapons such as a broadsword or rapier.

[Dorn]

I think you misunderstood Noctere. I said they're very good weapons to be used with heavy shields, simply due to the fact they've one attack, one handed, and the one attack does a lot of damage. If you were using a multiple-attack weapon however, you'd lose those extra attacks, completely neutering your damage. Well, completely is an exaggeration.

[Noctere]

We might need to address the estoc damage in the future and make it more in line with the lighter rapier like weapons. Currently we have no plans to redesign the estoc to be more like a longsword. Sorry.

[Dorn]

Unfortunate, as like I said it would be nice if they were more like their real-life counterparts.

But even if that isn't the case, if they're supposed to be a lighter/mid range sword that seems to be how the game displays them then yeah they do need a look at.

[Kunren]

Similarly, thanks to their one large hit of damage, estoc ripostes are very much advantaged compared to other lighter swords that can riposte, as they rely on number of hits over damage, and you only get one hit either way on every riposte.

[preiman]

Perhaps they should be removed from the list of weapons you can repost with. They are rather heavy and while IRL you can repost with almost anything with a point, the CLOK version seems to need a very light and quick sword.

[Jirato]

Having done a bit of research of estocs after this post was created, I can see they are definitely not "light" weapons. They're traditionally two-handed, and while this isn't necessarily reflected in CLOK based off of it's grip requirements, it is reflected by the fact that it only does one strike - for significantly more damage than a single rapier strike.

The riposte system in CLOK is indeed intended for "light" weapons only. In fact, the variable we use in the code is a list called "light_swords".

After the discussion and research prompted from this topic, I've determined estocs to not be a light weapon and have removed them from that list. This should keep them more in line with their real-world counterparts.

[Rias]

If they're traditionally wielded twohanded, should they be converted to hand-and-a-halfers at least?

Also, I just like the word "estoc". It's fun to write, read, and say. Estoc, estoc, estoc!

[Kunren]

If they're traditionally wielded twohanded, should they be converted to hand-and-a-halfers at least?

Also, I just like the word "estoc". It's fun to write, read, and say. Estoc, estoc, estoc!

If they were, I'd advise their damage to be buffed somehow to make up for it. Hand and a half would make a great deal of sense, but estoc damage is quite fickle and has a comparably low max to other hand-and-a-half weapons. Perhaps at 100 max maybe? Then bring it down to slightly below its current damage while using something in the offhand I'd say

[Dorn]

As soon as I can get another, going to give them a try dual wielding. See how that goes.

[Dorn]

Dual wield is a definite no due to the balance screwing with your parry, but definitely a great combination with a large shield. The one attack really helps there.