CLOK BBS

Shield Mastery
-Shield Use 500
Possible ideas for what it does include weighing the roll for reducing the attack penalty to your main hand, weighing the roll for your block roll, perhaps giving a second chance to attack with the shield, etc, etc. Lots of stuff it could do. Be nice to see something defense orientated that *isn't* dodge.

Armor Mastery
-Armor Use 500
Possible ideas for what it does include weighing the roll for reducing your attack penalty, helping the chance of glancing hits, the possibility on an attack/being attacked for less energy use or even just a minor scaling bonus to damage reduction that is decreased the higher the armor you wear. IE. If you wear leather, armor mastery will provide a bigger bonus than if you wear plate.

Impetus
-Melee 500
If you engage an opponent in combat, they have a much harder time breaking away from you as you continue to press them to the best of your advantage.

Momentum
-Melee 500/A Weapon Mastery
Only works for weapons wielded in 2 hands, and either 1 or 2 attacks. Using the momentum and weight of your weapon, if you miss all your attacks with it during a round you have an additional chance to land one last attack that has its damage reduced than if you landed one of the first hits. The idea is, the heavier the weapon, the more effort your opponent is going to put into having to either dodged it, parried/blocked, often leaving themselves open to an impromptu though less effective hit.

I have to express some concern about Impetus for balance reasons because it implicitly makes ranged weapons less effective in the course of a fight because it is harder to get back into range once in melee. That isn't to say it is entirely a bad thing, I don't know how ranged vs melee weapons stack up, and maybe adding an extra factor to convince ranged weapon users to invest in melee skills is a good thing, but I mostly want to point out that it more than your other suggestions has a strong impact on balance.

Armor and shield mastery are both fairly straight forward, and I like the general idea of them. They do of course shift some combat power to using armor over dodging and shield use over two handed weapons or dual wielding, but shield mastery and momentum largely cancel out in that regard, though something for two weapon users to fully equal things out would be best.

Mometum I like, perhaps with a decreased attack roll as well, since you're using the weapon in an unconventional way.

Another possibility would be that any attack that is parried or blocked (by two handed weapons) incurs some sort of penalty. Perhaps something very small, like a (chance for a) 1 second stun when blocked/parried to show that blocking such a significant mass still is going to throw you off balance some. Perhaps it could work on regular hits too, after all, getting hit with a maul is likely to throw you off balance quite a bit. This would actually be a nice counter for the shield mastery you suggested, as it makes dodging that much more important, which balances out the increased importance of shields from shield mastery. Certain weapons particularly designed for parrying could be immune to or have a reduced chance of the stun to highlight that they're designed for the job.

Yet another possibility is for some small amount of crushing damage to go through shield blocks on massive weapons like those, but that is getting into dangerous water, especially as the damage should logically be dealt directly to the left arm, which would be potentially very dangerous. It would make some sense from a logic perspective, but might not be great for game balance.

Honestly, these ideas come from the fact that there are *no* abilities at all for the heavy armor/weapon use. Every single ability in the game beyond the generic "Mastery" abilities focuses on dodge and light weapons. As it stands, dodge is already the best form of defense, though the most easily penalized.

Also, certain weapon types already ignore shield block on occasion (hafted) and parrying (chain).

Right, but it could be possible that those abilities are needed to make them worth using at all. I'm just pointing out that it will change the balance. I don't know if that is possibly a good thing or a bad thing, but it is a thing. Personally I like the abilities and would like to see them all, or something similar at least. Well, not impious, but that's personal reasons for my character as opposed to anything else. It will however very strongly shift the ranged vs melee dynamic as far as one on one situations are concerned.

I'll agree with that. And the fact is, right now, I would say game balance strongly favors dodge/light weapons just because there is more neat stuff you can do with it.

Personally, I'd quite happily take a knock to both the effectiveness of armor/heavy weapons if there was just more stuff I could do/enjoy/tricks with it.

Flavor and variation has a lot to be said about it.

Xyra wrote:
Yet another possibility is for some small amount of crushing damage to go through shield blocks on massive weapons like those, but that is getting into dangerous water, especially as the damage should logically be dealt directly to the left arm, which would be potentially very dangerous. It would make some sense from a logic perspective, but might not be great for game balance.

Some weapons already do concussive damage to the arm on a shield block, hafted I believe. Chain also has good chances to wrap around shields or even parries and still hit if I remember right.

Isn't there already an armor mastery ability that reduces armor penalties/hindrance to some extent. I think Templars and Wyrvardn had this. Maybe others too.

Regarding momentum, this would not make sense to me. A parried or dodged committed attack would leave the wielder more open, not the target. If I go to swing a heavy weapon, I am committed to the trajectory and if I miss, I am off balance and the side I swung across first is completely unguarded. I'm not sure why the dodge or parry would leave someone open. They got out of the way or deflected/changed the trajectory of your weapon. No chance I can think of for recovering with a weak partial strike when the attacker is now at a disadvantage.

Take hand off weapon, sucker punch in the face as they admire how narrowly they dodged the giant axe?

Acarin wrote:Isn't there already an armor mastery ability that reduces armor penalties/hindrance to some extent. I think Templars and Wyrvardn had this. Maybe others too.

Regarding momentum, this would not make sense to me. A parried or dodged committed attack would leave the wielder more open, not the target. If I go to swing a heavy weapon, I am committed to the trajectory and if I miss, I am off balance and the side I swung across first is completely unguarded. I'm not sure why the dodge or parry would leave someone open. They got out of the way or deflected/changed the trajectory of your weapon. No chance I can think of for recovering with a weak partial strike when the attacker is now at a disadvantage.

Preach it, sista!

Xyra wrote:Take hand off weapon, sucker punch in the face as they admire how narrowly they dodged the giant axe?

Pretty much what I was thinking. Less weapon, more of a body/contact blow. Knowing they're going to stop/avoid your attack, so doing something unexpected while they focus on that.

And armor mastery was removed. Unless simply mercenaries no longer have it.

One thing you could do with Impetus as well is make it a tactic, with the side effect of giving you a penalty to dodge to simulate the fact you're not avoiding, you're trying your damnest to get in their face.

Jaster wrote:

Using the momentum and weight of your weapon

I guess I wasn't very clear. But then I was also imaging stuff like pommel/hilt smashes, haft, etc, basically whatever you could right at that moment very quickly to take advantage of a slight opening that wasn't big enough to follow up with a proper strike.

Dorn wrote:

Jaster wrote:

Using the momentum and weight of your weapon

I guess I wasn't very clear. But then I was also imaging stuff like pommel/hilt smashes, haft, etc, basically whatever you could right at that moment very quickly to take advantage of a slight opening that wasn't big enough to follow up with a proper strike.

I guess this might be possible, but I see two issues with a heavy two-handed weapon. The first is that all strikes have to be committed or damage would be significantly reduced. If the trade off was reduced damage on the first strike or two if the extra strike would proc, that would be reasonable to me. This would demonstrate that you are attempting to control the weapon more with a light blow to better position yourself for the attempted hilt smash. I don't think that this is something that's typically done with very heavy weapons though. Definitely not with a hammer or maul but maybe possible with some larger (but not giant) swords. The other reason is that considering the range of such weapons, one would have to close the distance gap very quickly from a bad position and then target the guarded side of the opponent with an attack executed from a possibly poor position (a dodge would possibly take the target out of range as in EITHER too close or too far, a parry would have the attacker balance issues previously mentioned). I'd like to see hilt strikes and similar but maybe not for two-handed weapons and also not in response to a dodge/parry/block. If the rationale was different, I think I would be more apt to agree.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think the idea is summed up a lot better under "Dirty Tricks". Unfortunately, I don't really see it as just being a "light weapon" technique like it is but oh well.

Other ideas.

Shieldwall
-Offers no bonus on its own, except maybe a slight increase to shield gains when protecting someone? The real benefit comes when another character who also has shieldwall. Both need to be using appropriate weapons (spears, shortswords, etc, one handed and able to be used in close formation) and receive... dunno! Either a buff to shield skill itself, or a weighing of block rolls? Ideas of helping vs multi-opponent fighting as well, or maybe being unable to be flanked?

Shield Bash
-Make this "Shield Charge" as it is.

Shield Charge
-A full out charge, that has a bonus to attempts to close engagement distance, but your attack from it is severely reduced.

Scavenger
-Perception requirement?
Increase drop of riln/good loot

Waste Not
-Skinning, high
Use it like you would skinning, with skinning remaining as it is, while if you use this ability you get one extra chance to get 1 more pelt/skin/etc but all your checks for each attempt are much harder than normal.

I like shieldwall. Perhaps when any of the people in the shieldwall get attacked, all of them get a block roll to try and stop it, or perhaps contribute some % of their block skill to the actual defenders.

I would think scavenger would have to be a rather massive boost to be worht an ability, and the waste not doesn't seem like it would be particularly attractive. Maybe if it just had a small chance on each skinning roll (like say 5-10%) to get an extra skin, that'd be cool.

Waveride
-Holding a waveboard made by a woodworker out of a long plank, you can ride waves at the beach!

Orris wrote:Waveride
-Holding a waveboard made by a woodworker out of a long plank, you can ride waves at the beach!

Also gives you access to the socials 'radical' 'farout' and 'sweet'

Here's one I've been thinking over.

Acrobatics: Gives moderate boosts to climbing rolls and a fair chance to land on your feet when thrown, or knocked down by several other methods such as getting hit heavily in the legs by a larger weapon or blasted off your feet with certain Elemancy abilities and similar. Doesn't work, or works at a lessened rate with "charge" type abilities such as tackle of bull rush, because it's hard to imagine landing on your feet after one of those. Similar for handstring as that's not real knocking you down, but cutting into your legs to make you fall. Works better the lighter you are. Perhaps gives access to a few fluff commands like cartwheel, handstand, ect?

Prerequisites: Lightfoot, tumble, 500(? Just giving this because it's what a lot of the other abilities are at, I'd personally be happy with maybe 300) Dodge, maybe some perception Prerequisite I dunno.

Kunren wrote:Here's one I've been thinking over.

Acrobatics: Gives moderate boosts to climbing rolls and a fair chance to land on your feet when thrown, or knocked down by several other methods such as getting hit heavily in the legs by a larger weapon or blasted off your feet with certain Elemancy abilities and similar. Doesn't work, or works at a lessened rate with "charge" type abilities such as tackle of bull rush, because it's hard to imagine landing on your feet after one of those. Similar for handstring as that's not real knocking you down, but cutting into your legs to make you fall. Works better the lighter you are. Perhaps gives access to a few fluff commands like cartwheel, handstand, ect?

Prerequisites: Lightfoot, tumble, 500(? Just giving this because it's what a lot of the other abilities are at, I'd personally be happy with maybe 300) Dodge, maybe some perception Prerequisite I dunno.

Tumble already gives a chance to stand when swung at. I don't really see this as being needed or worth an ability point, but I like the idea. Are you saying that something that would ordinarily knock you down would not? How would this impact the stun associated with the knockdown?

I'd actually like to see this just be an improved version of tumble with a shorter cooldown (maybe available 1x per 2 enemy attacks instead of on a cooldown timer? Right now enemies can get 10+ attacks through if you're fighting 5 opponents before tumble reactivates) and possibly allow tumbling against ranged attacks (this doesn't happen right now, correct?). This would allow things to bring you back to standing a lot quicker after a knock down. It would only really work differently if fighting multiple opponents (maybe have multi-opps be a requirement too?). I think the dodge pre-req for this would have to be exceedlingly high though, if something like this were implemented (like on the order of 1000 dodge).

There are plenty similar threads, so I figured I'd just hop on one instead of making a brand new "General Ability Ideas".

Ok, so these coming up suggestions are going to be senses based, something that might add a bit more depth to the world beyond simply experiencing everything through your sense of sight. And yes, a few border on nearly supernatural levels, but people in the lost lands are shown to not be like people IRL even without mentioning the supernatural, people like brofists can function at a way higher level than natural, able to easily move their entire body at exceptional speeds and perform feats that would be very unbelievable for even the highest tier of combat trained people IRL (other non-magical guilds/combat characters aren't exempt from this, the brofists are just the most glaring examples). So I feel that with proper training these things could be feasibly possible in the world of CLOK. Speaking to a balance point of view, I don't believe they would be incredibly overpowered, but feel free to state anything I missed or some such.

First off, Sight.

Night Sight
By training your night vision to the maximum and becoming VERY familiar with navigating in the dark, you become able to see a bit better in darker rooms. Your perception penalties are slightly less, and rooms where others cannot see at all may be clearer to you. Effectiveness increases based on perception skill to a certain point, a room with a less than X amount of light will not be clear to you no matter how high your perception is.
Requisites: High Perception

Then, my personal favorite, Scent.

Sensitive Nose
Rather than a simple ability, this would function more as a system. Nearly all mobs would have a scent attached to them based on their attributes (for example, something related to "Death" for anything undead, "musk" for animals, "Fungal(? cant think of a word to describe the scent of mushrooms)" for infested.) Most things would have unique set of scents for themselves based on where they reside and their characteristics. By typing "Sniff" a character performs a perception based roll that determines any scents in the area (the thing in question must actually be there, and if hidden another perception roll is required). The accuracy of sniff would be determined by the character in question's perception skill, and successes would perhaps increase the perception skill. As an extra tidbit, recently washed humans would have no smell, but If they were smelly or some such they would be detectable.
Requisites: High Perception

Here we go with sounds, yays. Less thought put into it than the others sadly, but feel free to suggest.

oops, out of time, feel free to post any more sense based ideas or thoughts up, and I will try to finish up when I get time. As always try to get nothing totally overpowered.

Was actually thinking earlier of some sort of ability that is to do with eyesight...

Eagle-Eyed
Weighed rolls for perception, and possibly some others. I was thinking maybe herbalism for foraging only, helping you spot those herbs to pick, maybe a bonus to Prospecting if you're an Artisan and have the ability... catch that glint in the dark a little easier and know what to go for, and maybe a slight bonus to aiming with a weapon and striking your spot? Could be something on that last part that is only applied to ranged attacks?