CLOK BBS

Rias posted the following in my Wear and Tear thread:

Rias wrote:How can jewelrycrafting be more interesting/useful? Not useful as in "make awesome enchanted gems for items that give you +5 to your dodge!" because that isn't going to happen anyway, but useful as in ... well, like was already stated: Once you've bought that splendorous black diamond pendant or whatever, you're pretty much set. I guess if people are buying junk like that, they might be the type to be more expensive jewelry pieces just to show how wealthy they are, because wealthy people are weird like that.

I do acknowledge the other problem of NPC vendor jewelry being infinitely available, and at extremely low prices. I may have to crack down on those items.

I made a quick suggestion there, but I'm expounding on the idea here since I've put more thought into it and it touches upon multiple systems that are beyond the scope of the original thread. The idea is this:

Make it so that gemstones can be used with channeling as focusing crystals and/or energy reservoirs.

I see gems working with channeling in one or more ways:

1. All channeling requires a focusing crystal. This makes gems (and therefore jewelry) the swords and axes of channeling by making it so that channelers must channel through a gem. They provide the energy, and the gem focuses it into something coherent. Maybe it is possible to channel without a gem, but you do so at a significant penalty. Or, interpreted another way, you can channel without a gem just fine, but a gem provides a substantial boost. Though I don't think channelers really need a boost so this would require rebalancing things.

2. Only especially powerful spells require a focusing crystal. You can manage the rudimentary 'channel and throw' without a gem, but if you want to try something especially powerful you need a gem. You may need a specific sort of gem for specific spells.

3. Gems store energy that a channeler can tap into later (a la cambrinth). Channelers can charge gems before going into battle then draw out the energy in that gem when needed. Again, I don't think channelers need a boost, so this would probably require rebalancing energy costs for spells.

I prefer method 1 with maybe some method 2 mixed in for fun. Virtually every other combat character requires equipment to be effective, and this equipment has a huge impact on their effectiveness and requires maintenance. Making gemstones the "weapons" of channeling doesn't penalize channelers but put them on the same footing as other combatants, and in a way it benefits them as they can now gain the advantages of high quality equipment. How?

Different color gemstones work with different kinds of channeling, and rarer or more valuable gemstones are inherently superior. The gems match the color of the energy you channel, so aeromancy is white (I think? Haven't seen any aeromancers), cryomancy and hydromancy are blue, geomancy is green, pyromancy is red, thaumaturgy is yellow (thematically, I'd like to switch the colors of aeromancy and thaumaturgy), and sorcery is black. I could say more about which specific gems go with which kind of channeling if I had a gem list. Turquoise, for example, would be low-end cryomancy/hydromancy, rubies would be high-end pyromancy, etc. Quartz is an exception. Quartz is the newbie stone, the copper of channeling, and it can come in any of the various colors. Diamonds might be the similar exception at the opposite end. And I have no idea what to suggest for druidry because I don't know how it works.

Actually, diamonds are over-played. We should make some awesome, unique-to-CLOK gems like we have bloodsand and celestium. Something rare with some real 'oomph.'

Once you have the right color and type of stone, you have to facet it. Faceted stones are inherently superior to cabochons. We could leave the cut (shape) of the stone to personal preference with no more impact on gameplay than the adjectives of weapons, or we could have different cuts better suited for shaping energy in particular ways. The latter might be especially good if we go with method 2: Certain abilities require a round stone, others require a princess cut, etc. But I think that runs the risk of making things too complicated, and I still favor method 1. Let people pick which cut they think best suits them.

And, like other equipment, quality matters. This then makes jewelers as valuable to channelers as weaponsmiths are to fighters. It also resolves the NPC jeweler problem. You can buy as much average-quality jewelry from NPCs as you like, and it will perform just as well as a storebought sword. Which is passable. You can even buy it just to look pretty. If you want that extra edge that higher quality or rarer materials gives you, then you need to seek out a PC jeweler.

One other thing: Gems degrade with use. The stress of channeling eventually breaks all gems, and they can not be repaired, only replaced, so make friends with your PC jeweler. The process would be slower with method 1, as that is a more gradual strain, and more dramatic with methods 2 and 3, where a sudden surge of power wears gems out quickly. An important thing to note is that it is only the gem, not the setting, that takes damage, so you can keep reusing your favorite settings. For more gem-specific damage messaging, a scuffed gem might be scratched, a battered gem might be cracked, a damaged gem might be fractured, and a broken gem might be shattered or just fall out of the setting in chunks.

I think you could set your gems in just about anything you want. If you really wanted, you might even just walk around with a big orb in your hand. I can see woodworkers carving wooden wands and staffs or smiths forging metal ones for jewelers to set gems in so that people can carry their gems in style. You might wear your gem on a big pendant or a tiara. You could wear multiple pieces of jewelry each bearing a different kind of gem so that you can do different types of channeling with method 1 or special abilities with method 2. Or deck yourself out to have a good reservoir with method 3 or a few spares in case something goes wrong. Templars might set their gems in the hilts of their swords.

I think that's it. Sorry about the length of this post, but I wanted to make sure I covered everything.

So, this to me is a really cool idea. I love magic in games, and I love "artificing" type things. But there's some already really well established lore that sort of makes this idea not work

It's already been said that the reason that metal can't be "enchanted" is because the density of the material gets in the way. So, an elemancer's wand can channel because it's made of wood, but you couldn't have a metal rod that acted as a wand or a stave in the same capacity (as far as I'm aware).

I had to do a bit of digging, but the densities of MOST woods are below 1.0 g/cm^3, whereas most gemstones quickly approach 2.0+ gm/cm^3 (amber and jet being the exceptions, which makes sense since they have organic origins). So, that doesn't seem like a big difference, but ultimately it means that even the most dense wood is up to 2 times less dense than the least dense inorganic gemstones I was able to find density values for.

So ultimately, it would make channeling through, for instance, anywhere from 4 times to 8 times as difficult compared to wood, depending on the species of wood used (though there isn't any code in place for that, as much as I'd love there to be). It's a fun idea, and I love artificing, and magical items, that sort of thing. But I don't think it would fit Clok lore very well, unfortunately.

All I can think of after I skimmed this thread is, if we were to start using gemstones for magic, I totally want a set of shardplate.

Shardplate for the WIN. Shardblade as well though.

But seriously, magic is already a pain without HAVING to use gems. And lorewise it wouldn't really fit either. On the other hand, maybe gems could DEFEND batter against magic than other materials by refracting the order that elemancers impose, by nature of being static against druidry which I view as somewhat more flowing.

Of course, gems might exude or attract nethrim. For example, a yellow or white gem might cause the level of nethrim to decrease. Maybe a blade of such crystal while brittle and of little use in actual combat might be extremely effective against gaseous Nethrim creatures while a dark gem might cause nethrim to concentrate naturally, supplying more nethrim for less effort.

I can especially see this sort of thing working for Thaumaturgy. It'd be great if we could channel energy into the gem for later use. In the case of Monks, they could save the energy for when they just resurrected and still be able to heal to a small extent. It could work for Templar to somehow defuse the effects of a nether attack...especially now with the latest halo change. :(
I am also in agreement that there could be more Clok-made materials, and maybe not so rare to find.

If the idea is otherwise good and lore is the only sticking point, I'd suggest playing the "we're in Alpha" card and Rule of Cool it.

That said, another idea came to mind as I was thinking about unique-to-CLOK gems like we have ores (bloodglass, celestium, nethrium, etc.): Utility gems. Certain rare (how rare?) gems have magic-like effects that can be 'activate'd by non-channelers for a high energy cost. As a rule, utility gems may imitate certain abilities but are always less powerful and efficient.

For example:

Phostros (because "Lumicite" is already taken by a couple other games)
Alternatively called "Watchman's Stone" or "Thief's Light," phostros is a rare stone that resembles - and is often confused for - quartz. However, once it is mined, polished, and faceted by a master, it gives off a pale, barely discernible light if the stone if firmly held for a while. Geomancers have yet to determine how the stone works, but a popular theory is that it draws energy out of the user then slowly releases it as light. While even large and masterfully faceted pieces of phostros give off no more light than a single candle, many people who sometimes find themselves in dark places have found phostros jewelry invaluable as an emergency light when torches and lanterns fail or as a weak light source that allows them to keep their hands free.
Usage: Hold the piece of jewelry or have a free hand and 'activate <jewelery>'
Effect: Minimal light source (just enough to not be in pitch darkness anymore) with strength and/or duration determined by quality of the stone
Cost: Extremely high energy drain (from fully rested to 'tired' or even 'exhausted) with a long roundtime OR consumable
Inspiration: Sitting in the dark in Stone Canyon after my firestones wore out wishing I had the teeniest, tiniest bit of light to see where I was going

Torches, lanterns, Mage Candle, Halo, and Nether Vision all outperform phostros with far less cost. It is really a light of last resort. Any other ideas?

Sounds totally wack but...
A means to stave off hunger for a temperary time.

The "channeling doesn't like dense materials" point is a pretty big one to break. If we do it once, then we'll have people using it as an example for why they want a super fire sword or an enchanted iron breasplate or whatnot. I'd rather stay away from that.

Rias wrote:The "channeling doesn't like dense materials" point is a pretty big one to break. If we do it once, then we'll have people using it as an example for why they want a super fire sword or an enchanted iron breasplate or whatnot. I'd rather stay away from that.

Before this, I thought the reason that enchanting didn't work is that channeling requires active maintenance, like how the matter that elemancers conjure falls apart. I mean, rooks have this ability that covers weapons or armor in shards of ice, but it doesn't last forever, and elemancers and templar get channeling 'flares' with melee strikes. If channeling doesn't like dense materials, how is the energy moving from their hands to the tip of their blade for the flare?

And even with the "channeling doesn't like dense materials" rule, utility gems might work. That could be part of the explanation for why the energy cost is so high with minimal return. It simply isn't an efficient way to do anything, but it's still useful in certain situations and there are only a few special gems where it is even possible.

That assumes, of course, that you actually like the idea(s) but are worried about the ramifications. If you don't like the idea, there's nothing to worry about. In any case, this is a fun design problem and I'm enjoying kicking it back and forth in my head.

I think in those instances, they aren't channeling directly through their weapons. Ice Barbs actually just adds physical spikes to the weapons the last I recall (been a while since I've played a Rook, though), and I believe that the Flares is more a localized burst of the appropriate element, AROUND the weapon in question. I could be wrong though.

The biggest issue I see with the Utility Gem thing would be, how do they work? Out of all of the magic to my knowledge, only two 'naturally' exist. Nether is pseudosentient and exists in an ambient state that pervades the air, and Druidry consists of tapping into this huge, foreign Overmind Soul thingy to get things done (the closest thing to actual Clerics in Clok, since Druids ask the Gaea to help them out basically). Elemancy, Thaumaturgy. and Wavebending (as far as I'm aware, with the added caveat that "I'm not a GM, so I could very well be wrong), all are channeled by an individual (and Thaumaturgy actually comes from within a person).

So, I guess it MIGHT be possible for Utility Gems to exist for Nether. And Druidry, I think, could possibly have special things like magical trees that have special properties for their wood, but it'd probably require processing to be useful as a "magical item".