A handful of flavour np characters, please

[Kent]

I would like to request that a handful of flavour characters would be added to each major town to improve our RP experience.

These characters already show up in a very few places, such as the infirmaries, the Hanged Man lobby, and in 'room emotes' in Keth, as well as the Seamstress Amelie.


So I am suggesting similar personae would be visible walking around the streets of the major towns. Some ideas for flavour walking NPCs would be

- a fur-clad merchant
- a busy errand boy
- the town drunk
- a lamplighter
- a beggar
- a well-dressed lady
- some sort of busker
- any of the characters parked in the Hanged Man, or who frequent the infirmaries.


At the same time, I would recommend that no more than 4 or 5 of these figures be visible at one time per town otherwise it gets too spammy. Two or three in smaller locales such as the Coalition HQ and Dwaedn Vil.

When going into an Inn or the Diner, it would be cool to see 1 - 3 such characters at a table or at the bar.

Travelling along the road from town to town, it would make sense to pass two or three travelling NPCs along those roads....merchants, fortune-seekers, the occasional pilgrim or healer, a berserker, again, not too many on the roads at once.

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[Makkah]

Cool idea. We all already assume most of these guys are out there anyways in rooms with "crowds." Would be cool if they were given a few small scripts/emotes and eventually some stuff we can ASK them about. I really like that merchants/travelers out in the wilderness. Could have rare events of highwaymen attacking them, etc.

[Rias]

There were originally more NPCs around Shadgard with things you could specifically ask them about, or that would perform various scripts, but people killed them. :'(

That plus people complaining about the "noise" from these NPCs and their scripts or even just their movement from room to room kind of put me off to coming up with replacements.

[Rias]

Oh, regarding NPCs on the roads: I've wanted to many times, but I just see them ending up as little more than fodder for people who want to prove their evil street cred (and then I get to look forward to complaints from said evil people when they eventually get into trouble for their evil-proving deeds, or from people who messed with them and thought nothing would come of it because, hey - it's just a nameless NPC on the road, it shouldn't matter, right?).

[Rias]

While on the subject, this is why I often prefer not to put, for instance, shopkeepers in the room as actual NPCs. Cause what's the first thing Martin the Malicious is gonna do to prove the world he's hardcore? Kill a defenseless shopkeeper. Baby steps, right? Gotta start somewhere. Show these people you're for realsies evil and there's no low you won't stoop to - you'd kill a baby if there were baby NPCs in the game, but a shopkeeper is the closest thing you could find.

So now, oh joy. I have to change the shopkeeper name in the order dialogue, possibly change the name of the shop, possibly remove the shop (if its existence depended on the shopkeeper's expertise/specialty), discard any backstory and potential event/lore/rumors/etc. involvement for that NPC, and most likely come up with a replacement. Cause someone wanted to be supercool (or "funny") and kill a random NPC.

A GM other than myself put Relena in the Shadgard General Store at some point not too long ago. I had intentionally left her out (as an actual NPC in the room) for the reasons above, but eh, I figured we'd see what happened.

She's been killed by PCs three times since then, I believe it is. None of them had any specific reasons that I could ever discern; it was just that she was there, I guess. I think I've just decided Relena is one of those few people like PCs who can be resurrected or something, because I don't want to give up her backstory/lore/involvement in the town/etc. But it proved my fear.

Want music training? Go ask the bardess in the Mummer's Camp. Oh wait, she was killed a few days after she arrived there. Why? Beats me. I think the PC may have looted her clothes or something. Then just walked off and went about her business as if she hadn't just murdered someone in cold blood and looted their corpse.

[Makkah]

Your posts actually put a lot in perspective, Rias. I have a butthole character that I really need to work on his "kill first, ask later" mentality, if for anything for the better of the game.

Sorry for killing Relena :(

[Acarin]

Can you add baby npcs, please?

[Kent]

Well, I wasn't asking for named NPC's, like Relena.

I was asking to see several characters like "A fur-clad merchant is standing here.' If someone wants to take a shot and murder him, then there should be at least a two-thirds chance someone in the crowd calls the authorities. If someone tries to steal from them, a chance of getting a gem and/or 27 from him, no? If someone types 'request I wish to speak the merchant' , a possibility a GM will animate him.

If you pick the pocket of the errand boy, you only get three riln.

While I'm on the subject, I don't understand why if someone is seen in town who was wanted for some crime instantly has a rue and cry raised for their capture, but if someone is murdering someone else in the streets when the constable isn't present, then everyone in the crowd just pretends not to notice. The crowd ought to notice these crimes, regardless if the victim was a PC or an NPC.

[xavier]

first point.
I feel that they all have quite more important things to do than to move in random npc's on the streets that truly wouldn't ever serve any real purpose other than to become targets.
second point.
I don't mind ambient scripts in rooms, but having actual npc's running around town and spamming rooms with movements and other stuff would severely hamper enjoyment factor and while I don't usually make assumptions about other blind players I think I can safely say this would be very wide-spread.
third point.
npc's are already in the rooms as is, they are just in the crowd. It honestly wouldn't make any sense to put single npc's roaming around town and to also have the crowds too because what makes them different.

[jilliana]

Since the moment I began to play I noticed exactly what Kent is suggesting. I found a large amount of NPC's in places like the infirmary, the usual ones in places like the gatehouse in Shadgard, etc, and thought it was a bit turned around that we don't see any of these in other places like the the roads and forests other than the brigands and assorted odd character up to no good.
There has to be a balance somewhere. PC's should definitely pay some IC consequence for killing and looting some random NPC for no reason. Kill Iris the tanner? Spend time n a labor camp of some kind for a period of time after at least a couple of murders. Having the NPC's that commit violence are not acceptable, and why should a PC get away with it just because they're an actual player. It's pretty clear some people do it for their own entertainment, and thus having no real IC consequence, continue doing what they do.
Now, for my suggestion of an idea to find a balance between having a compromise with people like Kent and I who would like an NPC or 3 running around and those who don't really care for it...
A room at the mummer's camp has a series of room messages, as well as the infirmaries. Why not include messages of people doing things other than the kind we see now. An example would be as follows:
Shadgard Common: A well-dressed man passes by pulling a rugged handcart behind him.
A young woman rushes by wih a crying baby in her arms.
Messages for churches/chapels: An elderly woman greets everyone as she passes by them.
Footsteps can be heard in the distance followed by a singing choir.
Messages don't always have to include people. Some forested areas could have natural sounds of nature such as birds singing, etc.
There really doesn't need to be very many, but just enough messages to enhance someone's feel for the existence of humans and things around them other than themselves.

[Orris]

All I will say is that once we get to the ocean, there had better be scripts about the rolling waves, the salty sea spray, the cries of gulls, and that kind of thing!

[Rias]

While on the subject, this is why I often prefer not to put, for instance, shopkeepers in the room as actual NPCs. Cause what's the first thing Martin the Malicious is gonna do to prove the world he's hardcore? Kill a defenseless shopkeeper. Baby steps, right? Gotta start somewhere. Show these people you're for realsies evil and there's no low you won't stoop to - you'd kill a baby if there were baby NPCs in the game, but a shopkeeper is the closest thing you could find.

So now, oh joy. I have to change the shopkeeper name in the order dialogue, possibly change the name of the shop, possibly remove the shop (if its existence depended on the shopkeeper's expertise/specialty), discard any backstory and potential event/lore/rumors/etc. involvement for that NPC, and most likely come up with a replacement. Cause someone wanted to be supercool (or "funny") and kill a random NPC.

A GM other than myself put Relena in the Shadgard General Store at some point not too long ago. I had intentionally left her out (as an actual NPC in the room) for the reasons above, but eh, I figured we'd see what happened.

She's been killed by PCs three times since then, I believe it is. None of them had any specific reasons that I could ever discern; it was just that she was there, I guess. I think I've just decided Relena is one of those few people like PCs who can be resurrected or something, because I don't want to give up her backstory/lore/involvement in the town/etc. But it proved my fear.

Want music training? Go ask the bardess in the Mummer's Camp. Oh wait, she was killed a few days after she arrived there. Why? Beats me. I think the PC may have looted her clothes or something. Then just walked off and went about her business as if she hadn't just murdered someone in cold blood and looted their corpse.

Just giving this a little bumparoo. I've just learned that yet another one of my NPCs was killed for no discernible reason other than that they were there, and the person who did the killing just wanted to prove to themselves that they were evil, or something. It really makes me not want to put effort into creating NPCs and just make them all bland, one-dimensional nobodies, so that I won't feel so heartbroken when they're killed off by people who just want to kill an NPC for the evulz. Remember that the GMs often have lives, stories, backgrounds, and potential future plans for most any NPC you see out there that isn't obvious hunting fodder (or just another guard).

[Fayne]

I mean, on one hand, I can see where the players who do this are coming from. Nothing says you're serious quite like a random killing. But on the other hand, killing an NPC guard would be just as effective. Or any of the other generic non-named NPCs that wander around. Or hell, why not actually participate in some actual PVP if you're so evil? If you're trying to prove yourself, killing a PC would be much more effective. You're not just killing some helpless NPC with no skills, PCs are genrally more widely-known than NPCs, and if you're worried about violating the policy on PVP, you're doing it wrong. It's easier to justify killing another PC than most people seem to think, and usually as long as you aren't going around slaughtering newbies or constantly attacking a single person, you won't even have to worry about justifying your actions.

Save an NPC, kill a PC.

[ydia]

While NPCs would be cool there is already crowds, so it should be assumed they're present.
Second, messages periodically of actions would be cool.

[Kunren]

Second, messages periodically of actions would be cool.

There are many of these now in certain people places.

[vidor]

Killing random folk just cuz is sloppy boring untalented evil rp. I probably shouldn't call it rp. Like Rias has said before, it's closer to trolling than actual engagement in the world. I expect better from those who want to rp evil. Yeah, I recognize it's definitely one of the harder and more thankless things to do in an rp-based mud. But, that's the choice of the player. Don't play it if you can't do it, and if you cant' do it well, I'm not particularly willing to listen to the "oh I'm choosing to do something hard and people are being mean to me." Killing random named or unnamed npcs isn't showing off how awesome an evil character is. It's more like a child leaping off the sofa with a black blanket over his sholders and making you call him Batman.

[Elystole]

Just giving this a little bumparoo. I've just learned that yet another one of my NPCs was killed for no discernible reason other than that they were there, and the person who did the killing just wanted to prove to themselves that they were evil, or something. It really makes me not want to put effort into creating NPCs and just make them all bland, one-dimensional nobodies, so that I won't feel so heartbroken when they're killed off by people who just want to kill an NPC for the evulz. Remember that the GMs often have lives, stories, backgrounds, and potential future plans for most any NPC you see out there that isn't obvious hunting fodder (or just another guard).

The random murder of NPCs is still probably the quickest way to tick me off. You're literally damaging the game and cheapening the experience for other people because you lack creativity.

That said, Rias, would you consider adding room objects to places where you've removed NPCs that has their description or what-not? For example, Relena isn't a strict "NPC" anymore, but she's still mentioned in the room description. Could there be a hidden Relena object so that we can still see what she looks like?

...It's pretty sad it has come to that. Just saying "Relena object" feels wrong.

[sona]

My best suggestion for loading NPCs that we want to not be evil fodder, is to have them be super powered, like, drakolin kick your ass superpowered, or in towns have them spawn like 3/4 of a guard force immediately, and curb stomp evil doers. Heck, even go so far as to when attacked, null the attack with a script echo "Oh no! Some evil miscreant is trying to kill me! HAAALP!" 20 members of the guard force show up, maybe they curb stomp the PC, maybe they jail them. It's a surprise every time. Nothing says "I'm a badass PC like force tattoo/branding them with visible facial tattoos. Maybe it's a donkey, or something comical/mocking. Just a thought.

[Dakhal]

<Insert a bunch of nonsense.>

No.

I'm sorry, I'm just not of this mind; it's stupid that people do this, but what's suggested here is not an answer.

You could give shopkeepers a personal bodyguard in the room if it's such a big deal, one with respectable rolls.

Old men on the other hand have need to rely on the guardsmen, I feel sorry for him due to their incompetence.

[sona]

depends, sure, it's a bit of an overkill idea, but it's also to combat the concept that we don't get custom/nice NPCs, because people...surprise. Just kill them. Because they can. I wouldn't want to write up lore/backgrounds/etc for npcs that were going to be killed off, for no particular reason, by random PCs.

So, we can't rely on players to not behave mindfully of these things, so the options mostly seem weighted towards, "No, we don't get custom NPCs to stay, because we can't trust players to not destroy every neat, non-threatening thing that comes by." aka "This is why we can't have nice things."

[Dakhal]

I don't agree with making things flat out impossible in those regards. 20 enemies rushing in to instantly kill you or arrest you is dumb. The arrest mechanic as is, is already really stupid. Oh no, I got knocked down and instantly sent to jail even though I'm pretty much in prime condition! Feh.

Also, happy birthday to me!

[sona]

I can understand why you would feel that way, but similarly, I can also understand why no one would create X NPCs for a PC to brutally murder, and destroy all the effort and creativity put into an NPC given some sense of personality other than MOB_1533 with LOOT_TABLE. Also, Happy birthday to you!

[jilliana]

It doesn't really make sense for innocent people to have body guards. Little old men and storekeepers on CLOK don't have the kind of riln Sona does by any means. They'll be very fortunate if they ever see more than one thousand riln all at once.

Not only that, but towns might have guards, but they probably don't have the kind of manpower to send a room full of them to protect one person.

For sure is that the justice system on CLOK does need some looking into. Nobody will always be happy with it but for now the GMs do have to resort to putting NPCs in room descriptions and making them as objects to keep the boared and uncreative looking elsewhere.

[Dakhal]

Kyskie had bodyguards. But she was kind of a big deal, I guess.

[sona]

Yeah, I agree it doesn't make sense for everyone to have bodyguards, I'm just saying I can't blame GMs for wanting to put effort into developing a unique background for TOWN_MURDER_VICTIM_9745. Also seriously about shop keeper earnings? If this is confirmed, I think Sona would drop by every business she knows, make a donation of supplies and riln to various shops as a "stimulus package". Also, because that just seems sad.