reducing the Spam of Loading revolvers

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:47 pm

Currently, one of the spammiest things in the game is the act of reloading revolvers.

Just as there is an EAT FOOD ALL command, could there not be a LOAD REVOLVER ALL command to condense loading 6 shots into one line ?

Jaster · Post by **Jaster** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:35 pm

Then you miss the point of having roundtime for each load. If you condensed it you would have to take all of that roundtime at once.

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:18 am

Could have a load all that only works while not in combat, or did you want one for in combat?

Bryce · Post by **Bryce** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:28 am

Doing that outside combat could be useful if you're feeling lazy, but I hate large amounts of roundtime so I'd rarely use it anyway. Never know when you'll need to respond to something quickly.

Tenlaar · Post by **Tenlaar** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:35 pm

If the technology for a revolver exists, surely the technology for a speedloader does as well. You buy a few speedloaders, you load them up outside of combat with the full RT, and you can use them for quick reloads during combat. Bingo bango!

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:43 pm

The Speedloader was only invented a hundred years after the revolver.. Seeing as the revolver is rather new in Clok, it wouldn't make sense for the speedloader to be invented any time soon.

Bryce · Post by **Bryce** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:52 pm

That would have to be carefully balanced, since revolvers are already pretty nice weapons. If the speedload action had a reasonable roundtime it might even out, since with revolvers sure you can start a fight with 6 shots in 6 seconds (12 seconds if you're aiming), but after that it's only 1 shot per 4 seconds (5 seconds aimed).

Tenlaar · Post by **Tenlaar** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:17 pm

[quote=Nootau]The Speedloader was only invented a hundred years after the revolver.. Seeing as the revolver is rather new in Clok, it wouldn't make sense for the speedloader to be invented any time soon.[/quote]

And people can't use magic in the real world so it should be removed from the game.

CLok is not the real world. Clok is a game. A game needs to weigh issues of fun and effectiveness, not the amount of real world time separating two real world events.

KianTheArcher · Post by **KianTheArcher** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:12 pm

[quote=Tenlaar]And people can't use magic in the real world so it should be removed from the game.

CLok is not the real world. Clok is a game. A game needs to weigh issues of fun and effectiveness, not the amount of real world time separating two real world events.[/quote]

I have two things to say in reply to this. The first is, while there is magic in Clok, from what I can tell the developers try to make it as believably done as possible.

Secondly, I normally make the argument of "a game needs to be fun before it's realistic", but only in the case of when the code is detrimental to gameplay. As it stands, firearms seem to be pretty well balanced. You trade annoying reload time for quick firing time. The only way I can get a shot off every two seconds using a bow is if I'm using rapid fire, which is an Udemi specific ability. And that is while not in tactics marksman, so my accuracy and damage roll would be decreased from normal.

Tenlaar · Post by **Tenlaar** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:24 pm

I understand them wanting it to be realistic, I just have a problem with "it's not that way in real life" being used as justification for something in a game.

I didn't bring this up, therefor at least one person who is not me considers the current loading mechanics to be a detriment. I'm just throwing ideas out there, and I think speedloaders would be a neat thing to have in-game. I would put a timer on them though, say you can only use one speedloader every 3 minutes or so. That way people can't go out with a backpack with 20 of them and just semi-auto it.

That said, just being able to load them up all at once with additive roundtime per bullet would help with the thing I consider most annoying in a text game - repetitive use of the same command. I don't think having to get a bullet, load a bullet, get a bullet, load a bullet, etc. adds anything to game play. Also, logically, loading all at once would cut down on the total amount of time to load six bullets. Instead of six trips into your bag, you make one. Instead of opening the gun six times, you open it once. Maybe 2 seconds per bullet loaded if more than one bullet, so 12 seconds total to reload an empty revolver?

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:01 pm

Tenlaar, first you argue that Speed Loaders should be added because the technology came about at the same time, it did not.

What is done in the real world matters as you brought it in to try and justify speed-loaders. You are also forgetting something very very important. Bullet casings do not exist. So please, someone code in a moon clip which was first used in the early 1900s for a 1900s revolver, which will remain useless in clock as clok uses 1800s flintlock revolvers. When you load ammunition into a revolver you first pour powder into each chamber then you load a piece of shot into each. There is nothing there to speedload.

Now for the section about 'it is a hassle tying the same line over and over again!', why don't you write a script like I did for automatically reloading the revolver while out of combat? If you would like a command to do it all at once, I would suggest increasing the load time RT to +50% to +100% round time compared to manually loading the revolver. So from 12 seconds to reload a revolver(which is how it is currently) to at least 18 seconds or more reasonably 24 seconds. This will bring a good balance to someone who wants all the Roundtimers at once compared to someone who is willing to load them at once.

Bryce · Post by **Bryce** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:04 pm

One problem with the speed loader idea is that we're using flintlock revolvers. In CLOK loading shot doesn't take time, it's loading the powder that causes roundtime.

Edit: semi-ninjaed

Lemuel · Post by **Lemuel** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:28 pm

Soeedloaders aside, I would be willing as a revolver user to wait all that same total roundtime, just as long as the spam could be reduced...I'm not asking from more power from my flintlocks, just less spam for everyone in the room. Perhaps it could be done in two stages: the first time I type in Load Revolver All, it loads in six chambers of powder, then the second time I type in Load Revolver All, it loads in one message 6 shots into the chambers, with appropriate roundtimes.

Players that don't like being tied up in these roundtimes can, in my suggestion, omit the word ALL and just continue to load in the existing fashion.

Tenlaar · Post by **Tenlaar** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:34 pm

[quote=Nootau]Tenlaar, first you argue that Speed Loaders should be added because the technology came about at the same time, it did not.

What is done in the real world matters as you brought it in to try and justify speed-loaders.[/quote]

I said no such thing and I did no such thing. I said the technology for revolvers exists IN THE GAME. Change the does in my post to a could if it makes you feel better. Surely the technology for speedloaders could exist as well. Nowhere did I say anything about the real world. You are the one who seems to insist that Clok = real world and thus should follow human history, which is just silly. What year did elemancy begin being used in the real world? How about mummer magic? Sorcery? How many bullets from a revolver does it take to kill something in game compared to the real world?

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:46 pm

Lemuel, the issue with this is not just 'for the sake of people in the room watching' the issue is 'how does this stay balanced while in combat. You cannot load while in [Eng]. That is why I suggested maybe a non-combat only one string reload if you did not wish to type that much. Seeing 12 to 30 lines of someone reloading their weapon is hardly even anything to annoyed by. What would be more troubling is why the gunner is reloading his guns while in front of someone else.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:08 am

Lemuel and I hunt quite a bit and we often take breaks to tend to horses/wounds or something like that, and it is really annoying to see his 30 lines of loading his two revolvers, muskets and everything, while i'm trying to skin stuff or butcher or cook, so something that would load all for a bunch of roundtime while we have the chance would be so much help.

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:01 am

If it is only meant to trim the lines seen out of combat I would agree with it, I supported in my first post. A 'load all' command in combat risks breaking balance issues for revolvers against other weapons.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:26 am

it would take the same amount of time and wouldn't break anything, each individual shot loaded would cost the same RT, effectively making it dangerous in combat.

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:14 pm

The thing that it breaks is that you can only load while not 'Engaged'. Normally you can only load one or two shots before the enemy closes range again. Being able to load them all at once, even with a RoundTime equal to normally loading them out of combat unbalances the system. You go from needing to go through the loading phase three to six times per revolver, each time the enemy is getting in attacks while you are only loading your weapon. It really does change things, especially when you count in you can fail to disengage multiple times.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:25 pm

listen, it takes the SAME roundtime so the enemy gets a chance for the SAME amount of attacks, IT DOESN'T UNBALANCE ANYTHING.

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Yes it does. The amount of changes the opponent can attempt does change, the true time it takes to reload a weapon also changes, I explained how in my previous post.

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:40 pm

I do believe revolvers can be fired at any distance, unlike bows, so if you had the same RT for the revolver all loaded up in one swoop, the enemy gets the same chances and you have less chances to get out of it, so it puts the player at a disadvantage.

Post by **Rias** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:44 pm

The problem is that if you use the proposed LOAD ALL in combat, you would automatically load all 6 shots at once, without chance of failure on any of them due to potential engagement mechanics for the 5 additional pieces of ammunition after the first one. There is a difference. It would essentially bypass up to 5 skill checks, instead granting an automatic success on all those load attempts.

To clarify, it is not possible to load a gun if you are in the Engage combat position. If you are not under attack, it will simply move you to Ranged and load them automatically. If you are under attack, you will automatically attempt to move out to Ranged, but there is a skill check there. If we were to condense all loading to a single action, you would skip the 5 additional attempts to move to Ranged position for those 5 additional bullets, resulting in an unfair advantage.

You can FIRE at any position. You cannot LOAD at Engage.

Nootau · Post by **Nootau** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:45 pm

Revolvers can be fired at any range, they can only be loaded while at Ranged or Avoid positions. They enemy has less changes to strike as they then cannot disrupt your loading phase, which they currently can. (Ninja-ed by Rias)

hadesfire · Post by **hadesfire** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:48 pm

alright, load all would automatically start putting in powder for all of them, and if disrupted would fire them all then it would go back, instead of the load, fire, load, fire we currently have.