Dead Count

[Fayne]

It'd be nice if we had a way to see how many other characters (who are currently logged in) are dead, maybe even only make it work when you yourself are dead. This could cut down on some of the frustration that comes from being dead for a long period of time. You can look ag the count and go "Oh, there are 3 others besides me who are dead, and I was in a pretty bad spot when I died. I'm sure they're working on it as best they can."

And alternative would be a way to finally tell who a pulse is meant for, but thag seems more complicated and just not that great lore-wise.

[jilliana]

Personally I'd like to know who the pulse is for rather than seeing how many people are dead. The latter seems more logical lore-wise than the former.

[blindndangerous]

I'd also like to see who a pulse is for.

[Vaylon]

Perhaps when a toll is sent out, it can be assigned a random characteristic so that we can (1) distinguish between those tolling and (2) pinpoint which one we are rescuing with the rescue pulse. This would also serve the purpose of partially obscuring who was tolling, since each new death would be assigned a new random characteristic.

For example:

You hear the deep, echoing toll of a weathered bell in your mind. Your vision ripples as an image briefly forms in your mind's eye...

esp rescue weathered

* The toll of a weathered bell is answered by the color Cream. *

Or something to that effect.

[Kunren]

Perhaps when a toll is sent out, it can be assigned a random characteristic so that we can (1) distinguish between those tolling and (2) pinpoint which one we are rescuing with the rescue pulse. This would also serve the purpose of partially obscuring who was tolling, since each new death would be assigned a new random characteristic.

For example:

You hear the deep, echoing toll of a weathered bell in your mind. Your vision ripples as an image briefly forms in your mind's eye...

esp rescue weathered

* The toll of a weathered bell is answered by the color Cream. *

Or something to that effect.

+1000

[Fayne]

Oh, how I miss the days when you were basically an invisible ghost attached to your corpse and could see and hear everything that went on in the same room as your body. I still wish that were the case sometimes. It'd also make for a worse Hell for Undying than the Void. You could spend an eternity in the Void and never be aware any time had ever passed, or of anything for that matter. But imagine being an incorporeal soul eternally tethered to whatever remained of your body, able to see and hear averything around you but unable to communicate at all.

Plus, it'd make the excrutiatingly long wait for revival during a lot of combat events a little more bearable, considering you wouldn't be stuck looking at a single line of text for an hour, unable to see or hear how things are going. I've literally been dead for two hours throughout an entire event before, and missed literally everything that happened because of being stuck in the Void. That is the absolute worst way to spend an event, let me tell you. And honestly, I'll never depart during an event because I feel like RP is especially important during such, and magically being whisked away to a church, alive and mostly well, is very poor RP and has no IC explanation.

[Kunren]

Oh, how I miss the days when you were basically an invisible ghost attached to your corpse and could see and hear everything that went on in the same room as your body. I still wish that were the case sometimes. It'd also make for a worse Hell for Undying than the Void. You could spend an eternity in the Void and never be aware any time had ever passed, or of anything for that matter. But imagine being an incorporeal soul eternally tethered to whatever remained of your body, able to see and hear averything around you but unable to communicate at all.

Plus, it'd make the excrutiatingly long wait for revival during a lot of combat events a little more bearable, considering you wouldn't be stuck looking at a single line of text for an hour, unable to see or hear how things are going. I've literally been dead for two hours throughout an entire event before, and missed literally everything that happened because of being stuck in the Void. That is the absolute worst way to spend an event, let me tell you. And honestly, I'll never depart during an event because I feel like RP is especially important during such, and magically being whisked away to a church, alive and mostly well, is very poor RP and has no IC explanation.

I wouldn't mind this, but it'd be a step away from wherever the gms are going with death. Death is apparently still ongoing in major changes, once the gms manage to find a suitably awesome way to implement their ideas for it in game. As for departing during events, I feel mostly the same way though if I know something beastly is about to happen I will depart anyhow.

[Rias]

We intentionally moved away from the old death mechanic. It was bad that you were dead, yet knew and remembered everything that was going on around you anyway.

If you're dead for prolonged periods, I think it's generally okay to depart. When (haha) the new death mechanics are finished, there will still be a way for someone to get back without their body being dragged off to a church/mortuary/whatever. If we really don't want people to depart in an event for whatever reason, there's a switch we can throw to outright prevent it temporarily.

So yeah, the resisting departing initially is definitely appreciated, but if you've been dead for an extended period of time and you're feeling frustrated, I think it's okay to depart. Other GMs can chime in with their thoughts. After all, the whole point of the rescue pulse is to let people know whether they're being pursued or not. I know there have been requests for targeting those rescue pulses. Whatever, if anything, happens to change, you can in the meantime simply time your rescue pulses to right after the dead sends their deathknell. If you're the dead person and nobody is sending a rescue pulse after your deathknells, you can take that to mean that people can't or won't get to your corpse, and your only remaining option is to depart, so you should go ahead and do it rather than drive people batty knelling every few minutes when you're well aware nobody's coming after you.

[jilliana]

I know there have been requests for targeting those rescue pulses. Whatever, if anything, happens to change, you can in the meantime simply time your rescue pulses to right after the dead sends their deathknell. If you're the dead person and nobody is sending a rescue pulse after your deathknells, you can take that to mean that people can't or won't get to your corpse, and your only remaining option is to depart, so you should go ahead and do it rather than drive people batty knelling every few minutes when you're well aware nobody's coming after you.

I think that's generally a good suggestion, but there have been events where there are at least ten dead and we all died around the same time. In that case some would generally depart eventually, but it is still rather difficult to tell if the pulse is for you.

For me, it's not realy about being dead, but wanting to let the right person know. Some people are just unretrievable, whereas others are.

[merin]

I suggest a nap. I've done that once. Was dead, took a nap. :p

[Solaje]

You all are hardcore. I'm a shameless depart-er- being dead is beyond boring.

[Dorn]

...yeah. I just depart. Most of the time anyway. If it's someplace I think I could get rescued from, I stay.

[Fayne]

I wasn't really truly lamenting the loss of the old death mechanics, I was just lamenting how dull the current system is.

I honestly never depart. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've departed in the last year or so, and that's one year of active playing, not including the months I've taken breaks. I could probably count on two hamds the number of times I've departed since the current deagh mechanics were implemented. I think the reason is because for someone like me who focuses more on RP than gameplay during the limited amount of time I can play, that depart penalty can be a real kick in the rear, especially when it negates the effects of training and precious RPAs. I need to milk as many gains out of everything as I can every chance I get. To me, spending an hour dead instead of RPing during an event is less frustrating than having to work off that penalty.

[Kunren]

I wasn't really truly lamenting the loss of the old death mechanics, I was just lamenting how dull the current system is.

I honestly never depart. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've departed in the last year or so, and that's one year of active playing, not including the months I've taken breaks. I could probably count on two hamds the number of times I've departed since the current deagh mechanics were implemented. I think the reason is because for someone like me who focuses more on RP than gameplay during the limited amount of time I can play, that depart penalty can be a real kick in the rear, especially when it negates the effects of training and precious RPAs. I need to milk as many gains out of everything as I can every chance I get. To me, spending an hour dead instead of RPing during an event is less frustrating than having to work off that penalty.

...Really? Lol this shocks me, as I've never really had any problem at all with the penalty. I mean It sucks for a good bit, but it's gone within like... A lesson? Maybe? And even with the penalty hitting you the whole time I'd think an hour of inactivity is less helpful than gettin those grinds on. Unless of course it's for rp reasons that you don't depart.

[Dorn]

I wasn't really truly lamenting the loss of the old death mechanics, I was just lamenting how dull the current system is.

I honestly never depart. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've departed in the last year or so, and that's one year of active playing, not including the months I've taken breaks. I could probably count on two hamds the number of times I've departed since the current deagh mechanics were implemented. I think the reason is because for someone like me who focuses more on RP than gameplay during the limited amount of time I can play, that depart penalty can be a real kick in the rear, especially when it negates the effects of training and precious RPAs. I need to milk as many gains out of everything as I can every chance I get. To me, spending an hour dead instead of RPing during an event is less frustrating than having to work off that penalty.

...Really? Lol this shocks me, as I've never really had any problem at all with the penalty. I mean It sucks for a good bit, but it's gone within like... A lesson? Maybe? And even with the penalty hitting you the whole time I'd think an hour of inactivity is less helpful than gettin those grinds on. Unless of course it's for rp reasons that you don't depart.

Yeah, I'm surprised myself. If you're proactive about removing your penalty, and go hunting... it's possible to work it off very quickly. To make it even quicker, hunt mounted.

I used to just do a little woodworking to remove it, and it would take me a fair bit of time. With the changes, I've usually removed it within 10-15 minutes or faster if I train and hunt mounted. I think you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot by spending that hour dead. You could, depart, continue on with the event, and then afterwards work it off.

I've had to work off about 3-4 depart penalties stacked before, and it isn't that bad. If you do only archery/guns or so though I suppose I could see it being a a little more of a pain, but definitely not a "I'm going to spend an hour staring at my screen" pain.

[jilliana]

I agree that it's not hard to work off a penalty or three. I take it as an opportunity to grind something easy and mindless but still useful, like woodworking.

[Dorn]

I agree that it's not hard to work off a penalty or three. I take it as an opportunity to grind something easy and mindless but still useful, like woodworking.

Recent change Jill, but a few skills no longer work off the penalty. Woodworking is one of the ones that does not.

[jilliana]

I agree that it's not hard to work off a penalty or three. I take it as an opportunity to grind something easy and mindless but still useful, like woodworking.

Recent change Jill, but a few skills no longer work off the penalty. Woodworking is one of the ones that does not.

Huh. Okay. Thanks for letting me know!

[Dorn]

I agree that it's not hard to work off a penalty or three. I take it as an opportunity to grind something easy and mindless but still useful, like woodworking.

Recent change Jill, but a few skills no longer work off the penalty. Woodworking is one of the ones that does not.

Huh. Okay. Thanks for letting me know!

I don't know what other skills do though, guess we'll find out slowly! (As I die)

[Fayne]

Yes, well, as I said, I don't grind. Like, ever. Three or four depart penalties stacked would easily take me at least two days to work off with my limited play time. And yes, another part of why I don't depart is for RP reasons. So yeah, it's more productive for me to sit and stare at the screen for an hour than to depart, probably die soon after, depart, die again, and so on, because it'd take me more than an hour to work off the penalty.

Why do we even have the penalty still? There is no penalty of any kind for being raised by a monk, PC or NPC. Plus, depart is still necessary in certain situations. Maybe extend the time skills are reduced afterward, and put a time limit on depart so you can't use it immediately upon death. That still encourages people to get raised rather than depart, and it makes depart less crippling for someone like me who doesn't focus on raising skills.

Then again, maybe that's just the price you pay for being more involved with RP than grinding.

[Dorn]

If you can't grind 30 minutes to work off 3-4 depart penalties, then I'm not sure what to say. The depart penalty is there to actually give meaning to death. Personally, as someone who departs a lot, I sometimes think it should be worse.

Some advice on working off depart penalties. MAXIMIZE skill use. Wear armor, ride a warhorse, dual wield if you use it, and go fight. Use as many skills as you can at once, and it breezes by. Rougher for ranged characters, I'm sure but still not ridiculously awful.

It's not even a kick in the teeth, let alone the nuts.

As for because you're more involved in RP, I imagine it more has to do with your "limited playtime" than anything else.

[Rias]

I don't grind. Like, ever.

If you're not of the mindset that you need to skillgrind and raise your skills significantly, the depart penalties shouldn't bother you much, as they impact people who are concerned with grinding skills higher. I know what it's like; my PCs are mostly happy with their skill levels so I rarely skillgrind anymore, either. It can be a hurdle when you find a skill you decide you do want to improve at some point because then you have to work it off, but then, that's the point of the penalty - see below.

Why do we even have the penalty still? There is no penalty of any kind for being raised by a monk, PC or NPC.

Well, that's just it. If there was no penalty for departing, why would anyone bother waiting for a rescue and a Monk or Rook? Why would people risk rescuing anyone, when the dead can just depart instantly with no drawbacks? Sure, people who want to RP it that way would wait for rescues, but let's be realistic here - a ton of people would just be insta-departing if there was no penalty associated, and then we've just made rescues and "raises" largely obsolete, and that's against intended design. Not to mention the people that would get angry at deathknellers and be like "why don't those bums just depart, it's not like there's a penalty or anything, stop ringing that annoying bell."

I don't know, I've always kind of had this desire that dying should probably be something that people should be encouraged to avoid, and that there should be consequences that consist of more than simply AFKing around and waiting it off. Someone should be making some kind of effort, whether that's the person who died working off the penalty, or the nice people who rescued you putting in the effort of ... rescuing you. When there were no penalties in the early days (other than dropping your riln), people would regularly get themselves killed on purpose, just for a quick teleport to their main town. We're not a RP-only no-mechanics MUSH or something; here, we like to implement mechanical backings to things. Dying should suck, and people should try to avoid it. We want people to prepare and be cautious in dangerous situations, not just run in recklessly and not care if they die because "lol whatevs ill respawn and be back in the action in a couple min anyway". And then they get to claim they're "brave", to boot. The concept of a courageous Undying is pretty laughable, considering the general attitude toward physical harm and death. It's not bravery when you go in assuming you'll be back and in tip-top shape within a few minutes in the case you should die.

Huh. Tangent.

Anyway.

[Dorn]

Dying should suck, and people should try to avoid it. We want people to prepare and be cautious in dangerous situations, not just run in recklessly and not care if they die because "lol whatevs ill respawn and be back in the action in a couple min anyway". And then they get to claim they're "brave", to boot. The concept of a courageous Undying is pretty laughable, considering the general attitude toward physical harm and death. It's not bravery when you go in assuming you'll be back and in tip-top shape within a few minutes in the case you should die.

...and some of us do that anyway. *cough cough*

[Jirato]

I vote we get rid of the depart penalty as it is currently but give an exponentially increasing chance of permadeath on each depart instead!

Who's with me?

[Dorn]

I vote we get rid of the depart penalty as it is currently but give an exponentially increasing chance of permadeath on each depart instead!

Who's with me?

...you ass... You just want me to not play for a week while I wait for people to rescue me from a ridiculous situation.