ESP colors and names?

[Elizamor]

So I've noticed that it's pretty hard to memorize colors to names for esp, so I was thinking about maybe putting the color of esp next to their names on the "who" command? It's not the greatest idea, but it's worth a shot in my opinion.

[Barius]

The intent for the colors is to provide a sort of anonymity. ESP in the past used actual names. Colors were used to detract from everyone automatically knowing your name. And there would be too much OOC knowledge available if they were matched to names on the who list.

[Elizamor]

Oh! Then just ignore this post haha!

[Enepttastic]

Eh, doesn't need to be ignored. It's a valid question and having the reasoning explained is never a bad thing. That said, and I get the feeling Rias is going to cringe when I say this going by previous posts, but ESP is the Clok equivalent of a chat room, thus liken it to learning the names behind pseudonyms in a RL chat room(or forums for that matter) and figure out how you might, IC, keep track of em.

The real fun is if you're running more than one character and keeping track of which character knows which colors. For instance, Aeric knows what colors Fayne, Kent, Althena and Sona are for sure but I don't think Atali has a clue. Granted, if she had been paying a bit more attention to the chatter, I think she'd know some others.

[xavier]

then of course you have those individuals who change their color through mental discipline just to mess with you, heh

[Fayne]

I do think that at least some very similar colors should be removed, since I imagine the way ESP works is we actually have a sense of the color, not the the name of the color. If that's the case, how are colors like Blue-Silver and Silver-Blue different from each other? But then again, people always shorten the names of colors, so who knows what the intent is. I get called Moss and Mossy all the time because my ESP color Moss-Green. That doesn't make much sense if all you get is my thoughts tinged with a moss-green color. I don't know about you guys, but I couldn't look at splash of moss green next to a splash of dark green and various other greens and say "Yup, that's moss green right there"

[Barius]

I'll freely say right here that I don't like the ESP color system. I'd much rather be able to choose a voice and have a voice style display. I don't like that we're all, as characters, expected to differentiate between one or two hundred different colors, and know exactly what to call each one. Are we supposed to get each other confused constantly because we can't tell who's talking? My guess is going to be no, but if it is, that's certainly not how anyone is playing.

But unless the GMs indicate they might be open to other suggestions, this is what we've got to work with.

[Enepttastic]

Ummm, why would you get the feeling that we're not supposed to know that Person A is talking as opposed to Person B? The color labels kinda imply that there's a way to tell that different people are talking. Personally, I imagine is as invoking a form of synthestasia, you "hear" what's being said while you also envision the sounds being enveloped in their chosen color.

There's a degree of anonymity to it since one can't, IC, know who's saying what without learning colors to name but that's about it as far as confusion is concerned.

[jilliana]

I'll freely say right here that I don't like the ESP color system. I'd much rather be able to choose a voice and have a voice style display. I don't like that we're all, as characters, expected to differentiate between one or two hundred different colors, and know exactly what to call each one. Are we supposed to get each other confused constantly because we can't tell who's talking? My guess is going to be no, but if it is, that's certainly not how anyone is playing.

But unless the GMs indicate they might be open to other suggestions, this is what we've got to work with.

I would say that I mostly agree with this, but it's not really that we know all the names of the colors, it's more about having different colors, period. I may not know that someone's color is moss green and someone else's is puke green, but they do look different and I will associate the colors and match them to the person.

I hope that makes sense.

[jilliana]

As for the original post on this thread, I used to panic too when I first started playing. Now it's pretty much instinctive. So much so that I have to remember that my alts don't know who is who just like Jilliana does.

[Barius]

I'd like to see a colorblind character deal with ESP colors.

[Kunren]

Eh..it's not like they are seeing the colors with their eyes, so colorblindness likely wouldn't be a problem.

[Enepttastic]

True, but their ability to accurately equate a certain color with the correct label could be an issue. Like I said before, I kinda envision ESP working like synthestasia. You hear what's being said but also mentally interpret the voice/words as having that color as well. With that in mind, it'd be a touch difficult for some colorblind characters to accurately tell what some of the colors are.

[Barius]

Random thought as I'm waking up - I wish people wouldn't talk about new colors like they're new pairs of socks.

If it were up to me, I'd say the choosing part of having an ESP color could be OOC. You might naturally think in a certain way, and people's minds, in the world of Clok, could interpret it in a certain color. That color might change one day, for one reason or another, but it wouldn't be a choice.

I don't know. It's a mechanic I can't really make sense of in its current design. Which is why I don't like it.

[Fayne]

True, but their ability to accurately equate a certain color with the correct label could be an issue. Like I said before, I kinda envision ESP working like synthestasia. You hear what's being said but also mentally interpret the voice/words as having that color as well. With that in mind, it'd be a touch difficult for some colorblind characters to accurately tell what some of the colors are.

Funny this should come up, as I'm actually colorblind and I can tell you right now, 90% of the greens and browns would look exactly the same to me, and I can't comprehend "seeing" them as different shades, whether it is in my head or not. Go ahead, try to comprehend a new color that you have never seen before, and you'll understand where I'm coming from.

This is why I have such an issue with the color system. See, color doesn't actually technically exist. It is not something you can touch or taste or feel, it is a result of light hitting an object, bouncing off, and your brain interpretting the resulting wavelengths of light. Color is literally all in your head. This means that for people like me who are colorblind, I don't think we would be able to interpret so many various shades of all these colors. Worst case scenario, it's just an empty, colorless thought, best case scenario it ends up making moss green and dark green look like the same color, along with many others.

This is why I always liked the names better. Let's face it, no two people think alike, and except for Mummers who I would assume practice and train mentally to do things such as disguise their thought patterns on ESP, I doubt anyone would be able to mask the unique pattern their thoughts would have to them. It's not like you wear a pendant and go "Whoa, why am I thinking such weird things suddenly?" You can tell those thoughts are not your own. So the excuse that colors give people access to anonymity whenever they want it is, quite frankly, bullshit. I think such an ability should be turned into a guild ability for very few guilds, whether the color system stays or not. Ad Barius said, I imagine "changing colors" is not like picking out which shirt you want to wear that day.

So, there's my two cents on the issue. I hope you all can see where I'm coming from with the color issue.

[Barius]

Thank you, Fayne. I wanted to try to explain that, but someone who's actually colorblind would have done a much better job than me.

[Rias]

The Mummers designed the ESP network to be usable in this manner; that one could focus on a different color to be their new identifier if they so desired. It's not based on some innate property of the individual. The ability to choose different identifiers at will allows a level of anonymity and possibility of subterfuge, which is what we were going for with the ESP network, rather than "I know exactly who that person is and always will because I learned their color."

The "colors" can be seen in the mind's eye, so to speak. It doesn't depend at all on what your eyes can or can't see. If your character is colorblind, feel free to have them express their wonder at these strange and new colors they're sensing in their mind's eye. If we stuck purely to non-referential colors, we would run out of colors real quick, so we have things like moss-green, steel-gray, straw-yellow, and what have you. At the very least, you can assume that the individual who established the ESP network identifier "moss-green" (for example) specifically called it that, and that basic concept of what the color should be called is communicated along with the color itself via the ESP waves. A kind of mental labeled color swatch, if you will.

Again, they're not actual visible spectrum wavelengths, but mental representations. Colors seemed the best way to provide a large range of identifiers that were flavorful and easy to both differentiate and remember.

[Jaster]

I'm all for switching from colors to smells, Rias. You know I am.

[Sneaky]

Another way to deal with this rp wise is to instead of reading it as someone saying hey moss green can you help me here. You can read it as, hey, and then a flash of the color moss green, can you come here and help me? I hope this makes sense. So instead of projecting the words moss green, you're actually projecting the color itself.

[Barius]

Another way to deal with this rp wise is to instead of reading it as someone saying hey moss green can you help me here. You can read it as, hey, and then a flash of the color moss green, can you come here and help me? I hope this makes sense. So instead of projecting the words moss green, you're actually projecting the color itself.

I... can't get behind that. Sounds too awkward on top of what's already an awkward mechanic. You're saying you can project someone else's color in order to get their attention... but it's not your color to project.

[Sneaky]

That's almost like saying that using someone's name in a sentence isn't right because it's not your name to use.

[Kunren]

The only big problem I see with this suggestion is people's constant habit of shortening colors. Stuff like refering to mossy green as mossy.

[Barius]

That's almost like saying that using someone's name in a sentence isn't right because it's not your name to use.

No, but you can't actually broadcast thoughts in a color that's someone else's. Unless there's two different kinds of broadcasting going on, here. Is there?