NPC Locksmiths

[Kiyaani]

I know this is currently working as intended that NPC locksmiths take a large portion of the riln and all commodity items from the boxes, but it's a little ridiculous to give them a box and have them take items and riln worth potentially hundreds of riln and leave you with a tiny pile worth less than a fourth of what was inside and nothing else for your efforts. Seems to me some PCs - heck, some NPCs would call that a racket and run them out of town - legitimate business or not. In-fact, many players refuse to use them because they feel this way and that leads to hoarding and stockpiles, and then people get upset when those things get lost, PC locksmiths have to take great periods of time to help customers etc.

Those locksmiths sit in town all day and ply their trade, you go out and kill things for a living, fighting nethrim and resen for the safety of the lands. Don't you think they'd be a bit more respectful than taking things willy nilly from something that isn't theirs.

Would it be possible to limit the amount of items taken so it's not just arbitrarily everything you could sell at a market? The riln taken is already some percentage, I assume, why not the commodity items as well? Maybe instead of taking so much of what's inside they can start charging based on box difficulty, percent of contents based on difficulty or some other method that doesn't make them some of the most hated people in town. Just think how lonely and unpopular they must feel? They're used as a necessity, not because people appreciate their talents. Poor guys.

Yes it's their shop. Yes it's their rules, but as people have mentioned in other threads, there's a pretty big limit on capable PC locksmiths.

I like being self-sufficient when I can be. I like supporting towns and local business. I even like supporting PC locksmiths if they're around. I also like not being cheated when alternatives don't present themselves. Calling a locksmith in life would have them charge a fee, not take what's inside your safe. If PCs aren't willing to be that brazen due to the consequences from other PCs, why are NPCs willing to take the risk?

In this case:

ask lew about unlock
Old Lews takes your rectangular copper strongbox, produces a lockpick seemingly from nowhere, inserts the pick into the lock and has it open in a matter of moments.
Old Lews quickly scans the contents of the strongbox, removes some riln as well as a turquoise aquamarine, some malachite and a red garnet from inside and hands the strongbox back to you with a nod.

look in str
In the rectangular copper strongbox you see a small pile of riln.

You gather 27 riln from a rectangular copper strongbox.

*****

Please don't see this as a QQ thread. It's simply a request based on current in-game conditions and what makes sense to me. I don't mind them taking things. I don't even mind them taking most of the things. I mind them taking *all* the things.

I encourage comments and feedback (not that I could stop it), but I genuinely want to see how others feel. Even if nothing changes, it felt good to get this on the boards instead of people just commenting about it in other channels and never getting it here for discussion. Please keep feedback constructive.

[Elystole]

I think I've used that exact word to describe the NPC locksmithing business: A racket. Or, to put it another way, there are Thieves and there are thieves, and those guys are thieves.

There's no reason to ever use them except for that odd box that a PC can't open. Before I had a house I'd pay the bank fee to store all of my boxes because it was still more economical than the huge cut that the NPCs take. Now that I have a house, I have a ridiculously full crate just waiting for a PC locksmith - and then I feel bad about asking them because who wants to sit there for hours just opening boxes?

The most sensible approach would be for them to charge a flat rate: That's what usually happens when you call a locksmith to open something. They don't assume that there's money and gems in that locked box and that they get a cut. However, if we're honest about the fact that these are loot boxes (for some reason some people get weird if we're honest about that) so we expect to find riln and valuables in there, then I can see the NPC locksmiths saying something like, "You bring me the box, I open it. We split the riln 50/50."

Right now, I do the hard part of risking my life to get the box while Lews sits in his shop all day, but he makes most of the money. That's a bad deal.

[faylen]

Yes, yees, and yes.

I understand that the idea is to make it more reasonable and preferable to go to a pc locksmith and that's why the npc ones are a bit ridiculous. However, I think it goes a bit too far. I've gotten to the point where I won't even use the npcs for boxes that my normal pc locksmith can't open. Instead I just store them somewhere and wait for the time when that person's skills are up more and try it again.

Considering how long it takes for someone to get to where they can reasonably open higher difficulty boxes, it kind of leaves us stuck if those few decide to take a break, play an alt or whatever. I would even be ok if the npc took all of the riln or half the total value of the contents, whichever was lowest. Or even a flat fee that is higher than what most pcs charge although not sure how that would play out for lower difficulty boxes.

[baerden]

I might be wrong in assuming that NPC locksmiths take all the items, but thats the reason I dont use them.

The whole point and joy of boxes for me in GS was you might just win the lottery and get a really cool item fed into the hopper.

I'm too afraid that the NPC locksmith will nab a unique item, the riln.. meh who cares about riln.

I would gladly trade all the riln in the boxes to keep the items.

[Kiyaani]

They don't take everything, just commodity items. Unique stuff, clothes, junk is all left, but that stuff is more rare than commodity items.

[jilliana]

I truly believe that even if the NPC locksmith's get adjusted, PC's will still be going to their favorite locksmith to open their boxes. Having a PC open my boxes lets me have a certain amount of control. An example would be if I went to Bryce and gave him a far larger tip than I would give another PC entirely. Or I'd be able to give him a statue that he particularly liked.

Suspicion towards an NPC would probably never fade, especially since we're not given the choice of how much to give them as payment.

A possible solution could be something similar to what we have with healers now. Opening a certain amount of boxes would require a flat fee with the random possibility that they'll reach in and get something without asking.

[Kiyaani]

The point of this was never to discourage people from using PC locksmiths, it's to get people's thoughts on ways to make NPC locksmiths more viable as an alternative when there's a PC drought.

I'm not sure what you mean by that comparison to healers, Jill. Maybe you can clarify? There's always just a flat fee at the healer - flat fee for moderate or higher and flat fee for less than moderate. There's no chance for them to deny a bandage or a bandage to not work fully based on the number of wounds so I'm not sure what you're talking about as far as it being a similar.

[jilliana]

The comparison probably wasn't the best. Here's an example of what I mean...

A PC walks in with x amount of boxes. They can get charged x amount based on the box type in addition to the total of what they bring in. Not only that, but add the random chance or two that they will snatch up a commodity along the way.

No matter what happens, in the end a PC will prefer to go to a PC locksmith because there will always be an element of "shady" with an NPC. There just could be a better balance so PC's don't get bombarded with an entire 2 pages of crate content (points at Elystole) and people can get their stuff opened in a reasonable amount of time.

[Bryce]

I feel bad about asking them because who wants to sit there for hours just opening boxes?

/raisehand

That's why I'm a locksmith! Hope nobody hesitates to ask me for smithin just because they've got lots of boxes, because I figure the more, the merrier. Kinda like those people who say they feel bad asking for a healer to come help, but the healers took the job so they could do just that, right? Don't feel bad and hesitate asking someone to do what they've made it their business to do, or we'll both end up frustrated.

And just so folks know, I've taken on a few new apprentice locksmiths, so to speak.

[xavier]

I agree with the fact that the NPC locksmiths seem to take way too much. I also agree that since I only get skill ups in locksmithing from successfully opening something that I'm seriously not going to blanche at someone dumping hundreds of boxes in my lap either. I might have to stop at some point to make more picks but that's why I've got something like 100 pounds of metals in the bank vault.
I would very much like it if it worked similar to how Jilliana said. The only thing I'd change is to make it work like so.
guy walked into the shop.
10 riln per box, 20 riln per lockbox, 30 per strongbox, 40 per chest, etc.
65% chance the NPC is going to lift something (one item completely at random or 25% of the riln)
when you ask him to unlock the riln is automatically deducted from what you are carrying, you hand him the box, he unlocks, opens and hands it back to you.

I believe this would make it still preferable to go to the PC locksmiths, however it would greatly decrease the overall animosity torward NPC locksmiths, except in those cases where the random choice was that priceless super rarefigurine.