Knights of the Wyrvardn

[Caleb]

Summoning all Knights of the Wyrvardn to the Honor Hall on LIghtsday, 14th of Markum, year 1220, at three bells post zenith. Various topics will be discussed such as available training, weapons and armor availability, and current issues within the Lost Lands, and other concerns brought forth by the regiment.

[Kiyaani]

Yay Wyrvardn meeting! Honest question - why do people keep calling them knights? The title is in the name. Guardians of the people! I'm pretty sure they're not actually knighted in any technical sense.

[Jirato]

Yay Wyrvardn meeting! Honest question - why do people keep calling them knights? The title is in the name. Guardians of the people! I'm pretty sure they're not actually knighted in any technical sense.

This.

If anything, given Morcant's history with the Knights Templar, he probably wouldn't want to ever refer to the Wyrvardn as knights, out of respect to his past affiliations.

[gralkik]

Yay Wyrvardn meeting! Honest question - why do people keep calling them knights? The title is in the name. Guardians of the people! I'm pretty sure they're not actually knighted in any technical sense.

This.

If anything, given Morcant's history with the Knights Templar, he probably wouldn't want to ever refer to the Wyrvardn as knights, out of respect to his past affiliations.

I was going to ask, what's another "title" would you call them, that would be more common? They're of a knightly class, though not warriors like the Dwaedn. No, they're not Templars (completely understand that viewpoint.) Would Guardians, be sufficient? (Or maybe a reference to the OOC titles?) Just wondering. Some view themselves knightly (self-proclaimed knights.) - To make things clear, I don't call my Wyrvardn a knight. :D

PS. Guardians - Not to be confused with "Tse Gaiyan," which is the Faerwyr translation for 'The Guardians of the Fifth Wind.' Furthermore, not "Wardens," as that is now another guild name. Just wondering?

[Kiyaani]

Why do they need another name? Wyrvardn is a title in itself. Saying Guardian Wyrvardn would be a little redundant. I guess I see it as one of those foreign language words that through common usage makes it into another language's normal vernacular. So Wyrvardn should be understood by those who speak only Common because of its nature. But I think Guardian is probably the best option if you want something in "Common" to use instead or just as an alternate. Just my personal opinion, of course.

[Vaelin]

I would expect some lingual bungling due to it being foreign and admitedly hard to spell. In my opinion, I just call them guardsmen... or guardspeople honestly. Reminds me of CLoK's version of Sam Vimes.

[gralkik]

Why do they need another name? Wyrvardn is a title in itself. Saying Guardian Wyrvardn would be a little redundant. I guess I see it as one of those foreign language words that through common usage makes it into another language's normal vernacular. So Wyrvardn should be understood by those who speak only Common because of its nature. But I think Guardian is probably the best option if you want something in "Common" to use instead or just as an alternate.

I believe you missed the point? I asked,

that would be more common?

as in the common language. Because I am sure a large percentage of the player base does not have any real knowledge of who or what "Wyrvardn" actually means. On a personal account, I've had to IC translate what it means. And, no, you're not saying "Guardian Wyrvardn". You'd be either saying, "Hi, I am a Guardian/Sentinel/etc. My job is to protect people.""or "Hi, I am a Wyrvardn." This is what I am wondering is acceptable.

[Kiyaani]

I don't think I missed the point of what was stated, but it might have been better to specify that you meant Common language and not common usage if that was your goal. Either way my statements still apply.

I'm saying that it's probably a word - like Dwaedn or other similar Faewyr words - that is so commonly used that it's understood what it is in Common even if they don't know what the root words are or what they mean. It's okay to have to explain it sometimes, but I still don't see a problem using it as "common" or to be taken "in Common". More to your point, I also said Guardian by itself was probably okay. The example "Guardian Wyrvardn" was just a shorthand for "Hey, I'm guardian <name>. I'm a Wyrvardn." That is where the redundancy comes in.

Anyway, I'm not here to bicker. I think the suggestions offered are all probably valid options and honestly, it's going to be your RP and your choice what you want your character to be called. But from a lore perspective the only thing I was concerned with was Knight.

Also it's probably a better idea to call yourself a Wyrvardn all the time anyway. You can explain what it means if you have to. But if you just say something like "I'm a guardian" that doesn't really give the full weight of the effort and responsibilities your character has to endure in the course of their work. Anyone can say they're a guardian, but only an elite few can say they're a Wyrvardn. It's a title to be proud of.

[Kiyaani]

Back on topic - I hope your meeting goes really well. Sorry things got a little sidetracked.

[Caleb]

To be fair, Jirato has now revealed how Morcant would feel about us being referred to as knights. That is something I did not know or would have known unless Morcant himself had told me in-game, which didn't happen. The wiki describes wyrvardn as a form of knights - "This group of elite warriors [were] sworn to keeping the people of Aetgard safe from any threat." I inferred from the wiki that Wyrvardn worked under the kingdom of Aetgard as protectors, like a knight would. The tenants of our creed are knightly. It has happened where people IC do not know what we are and the term knight helps associate that.

I never meant to use the term Knight in an derogatory way since I truly saw us as such. Any who know Caleb in game, I would hope, see that he tries to live by the high standards of honor that a knight would. My introduction as a Knight of the Wyrvardn was based off an innocent assessment of how the wiki describes us. Given that Morcant would rather leave the term "Knight" to the templar, I have no problem with that. Wyrvardn Caleb will continue to serve.

[Jirato]

I'm hyped for the RP opportunities your meeting will bring. It's unfortunate that it'll happen at a time of day where I am unavailable to observe it real time, but just so you know, I think ya'll are great and I hope ya'll have fun with your Wyrvardn meeting.

Thanks for showing initiative and posting this, Caleb.

[Caleb]

I do want to give credit to Gralkik as the idea was originally his, and we made plans in-game.

[verel]

This is a pretty interesting discussion. Too bad we can't be known as knights, though. I liked the classification pretty well. But it makes sense, we'd just be the cheap Templar without the magic if we were to refer to the Wyrvardn as knights.

[gralkik]

This is a pretty interesting discussion. Too bad we can't be known as knights, though. I liked the classification pretty well. But it makes sense, we'd just be the cheap Templar without the magic if we were to refer to the Wyrvardn as knights.

Yeah, which they're not "cheap Templar".

[Shainar]

Speaking from the Templar perspective, I'd agree: Wyrvardn are not "cheap Templar." I know Caleb well, and he's told me about you (Gralkik) too. From everything I've seen, the Wyrvardn definitely stand on their own. Caleb even made me a little jealous of Wyrvardn today at one point!

Regarding the Knight title thing, does it really mean anything in the Lost Lands? I believe it came from Ivial where the Templar were founded, but what does a Viali title mean in Lost Lands? If it would go toward smoothing things over with our Wyrvardn brothers and clearing up misconceptions in general, I would be happy to drop the "Knight" and just be known as Templar (I never say Knight anyway). After all, I feel Templar is a title to be proud of on its own, as should be Wyrvardn on its own. My character will be doing this in character as an effort toward solidarity.

Honor and respect to you, Wyrvardn brothers in arms! We're all together as defenders of the people.

[Noctere]

My personal opinion on the matter is if you want to call yourself a knight regardless of faction or guild, you are free to do so. How you back up that claim is up to you. Just be realistic with your lore and don't claim to have been knighted by the great king of some foreign land or something.