CLOK BBS

Stealth seems to be a real issue, at least for me and those I've talked with about it. It's the only skill that requires tons of effort for very little reward. I've come up with an idea that may be helpful though, and hopefully we can come to some kind of compramise for it.
The idea is when hostile NPCs search out a player, the player would get a slight stealth gain when passing the check. I wouldn't expect the stealth gains to be as great as the gains you get from ranged attacks and what not, but it'd be something more. NPCs don't search forever, so the player would still have to actively follow and keep the critter searching. Also, if it is a challenge, there is a pretty even chance that they'll be found and pointed out resulting in more effort on the player's part. It's not really meant to be a new way to grind stealth, but to add on to the already existing way, and to compensate for the extra effort put into grinding it.

Sneaky wrote:Stealth seems to be a real issue, at least for me and those I've talked with about it. It's the only skill that requires tons of effort for very little reward. I've come up with an idea that may be helpful though, and hopefully we can come to some kind of compramise for it.
The idea is when hostile NPCs search out a player, the player would get a slight stealth gain when passing the check. I wouldn't expect the stealth gains to be as great as the gains you get from ranged attacks and what not, but it'd be something more. NPCs don't search forever, so the player would still have to actively follow and keep the critter searching. Also, if it is a challenge, there is a pretty even chance that they'll be found and pointed out resulting in more effort on the player's part. It's not really meant to be a new way to grind stealth, but to add on to the already existing way, and to compensate for the extra effort put into grinding it.

I'm against this. Perception is even harder than stealth to gain right now and this would really upset the balance. I say this even though it would be advantageous to me.

Acarin wrote:

Sneaky wrote:Stealth seems to be a real issue, at least for me and those I've talked with about it. It's the only skill that requires tons of effort for very little reward. I've come up with an idea that may be helpful though, and hopefully we can come to some kind of compramise for it.
The idea is when hostile NPCs search out a player, the player would get a slight stealth gain when passing the check. I wouldn't expect the stealth gains to be as great as the gains you get from ranged attacks and what not, but it'd be something more. NPCs don't search forever, so the player would still have to actively follow and keep the critter searching. Also, if it is a challenge, there is a pretty even chance that they'll be found and pointed out resulting in more effort on the player's part. It's not really meant to be a new way to grind stealth, but to add on to the already existing way, and to compensate for the extra effort put into grinding it.

I'm against this. Perception is even harder than stealth to gain right now and this would really upset the balance. I say this even though it would be advantageous to me.

I'm for this. Right now in order for my character to gain any stealth, he'd have to pick up a fourth weapon or pickpocket to get a decent gain in stealth. Perception is possible, and very easy to gain I've found, if you know where and how to do it, but stealth for close combat characters takes a lot of time and the gains are very hard to get. It might be easier for ranged combatants, but it's difficult for close range combatants. I do think that something would have to be done about the balance though.

I'm also for it.

Acarin and I both play melee stealth fighters and we've both managed just fine even when one of our primary stealthy abilities was taken away. I think this is an unnecessary option and would, quite frankly, make stealth far *too* easy to gain when it's already fairly simple. And yes, you may need to take up a ranged weapon if you really feel it would make skillgains easier, but that doesn't mean it's not easy or possible to do from melee as well. There are much harder things that are much more useful out there and not everyone gets a free perception grind provided by their guild.

Just remember, there are some abilities that require ridiculously high skill numbers for a reason. They're not meant to be gained in a week or maybe even a month. They're there for those truly dedicated to those characters.

While it is indeed true that you can grind stealth currently, the effort that goes into it is far more than grinding any other skill. Perception, you've got scaling for most if not all ranks of it. If you need it while first starting out, you have the graveyard in shadgard, get up to maybe 100 there. Next step, tarueka environs, next step tarueka town, step after that tarueka woodlands. When grinding perception, all you have to do is walk into a room, wait for you to trace whatever it is they're firing at you, or if it's a melee attack let them jump out at you, walk out of the room, walk back in if they're ranged and repeat, if it's a melee you ust have to wait a second or two before they hide again and you can walk back in. It's easy to do. I can set up a trigger for it in under a minute, and anybody with even the slightest knowledge of scripting could do it. With stealth, you have to hide, move into a room, if it is a challenge for you, in which you'd actually get skill gains for attacking it, you'll get seen more times than not, so you'd have to sneak in, walk out, sneak in, walk out, and then finally when you pass the check, they are more than likely going to be constantly searching you out the entire time. So, you've got a very limited time in which the ability to even gain anything is available to you. After you do all of this work, then it's time to attack. Once you attack you'll eventually fail whether you're unlucky and it's on the first shot, or lucky and on the 5th, you'll be seen, forced out of hiding, and forced to repeat the process over again. Oh, and then don't forget when you're sneaking into a room over and over again, and when you finally pass the check and you're ready to attack they move. So yes, if you're willing to put up with the pain in the ass of grinding it, you can grind it. Slowly, very slowly, but that does not mean it can't or shouldn't be made better.

Stealth is also one of the most powerful skills in the game, available to anyone. It doesn't need to be any easier to get, frankly. It allows you to make attacks that will not miss, if you get the skill high enough. It's not hard to grind. I haven't had issues grinding stealth to acceptable levels, without focusing on trying to skill it up really.

I have to say, I don't feel stealth is in a particularly bad state right now.