CLOK BBS

So with all the controversy now about trespassers in any part of the Stone Canyon, it begs the question, who benefits from, and who finances, mercenary tasks to go into defeat a single dangerous animal in Stone Canyon?

A typical Stone Canyon task looks like this:

The mercenary recruiter Warrington says, "There have been some reports lately about a large yellow-tusked boar that is particularly dangerous. We need someone to go out and defeat it. You should be able to locate it fairly soon after arriving in its native area. It was last seen in the Stone Canyon area."

Is this boar harassing persons outside of the Stone Canyon? I don't think so - it's never spotted on the outside. Is it not a danger to the Hyra people, who hunt and gather in those areas the boar is found? Has not this boar likely already killed or maimed one or more of the hyra people? Was not word of this picked up by some merchants of the Coalition, who helped co-ordinate the bounty on this beast, as it was a threat to life of Hyra and to business interest of trader? Is the mercenary not there slaying the boar at the behest of the Hyra? Of course, the mercenary's job is to go in, take out the boar, and get out, nothing more.

And should the above paragraph not be the case, the reason for the mercenary task master assigning the task (and the source of financing the same to pay the mercenary) is unlikely to be explained by any credible role play reasons...the mercenary would have decline and ask each time for a removal of all Stone Canyon tasks to get around this incongruous rp situation the guild tries to put him in.

They're certainly not being contracted by the Hyra. As to how the Coalition finds out about the particular critter in the first place, I'm confident in peoples' (both Coalition-affiliated and non) willingness to ignore the Hyra's desire to be left alone in favor of their own self-interest. Maybe it was reported by a mercenary out there training, or a hunter who was out there hunting/trapping, a forager looking for rarer herbs that grow in the canyon - any number of situations could come up. One way or another, some non-Hyra person decided it was worth informing the Coalition Mercenaries and asking for their help dealing with it. If you think the current issue is a big deal and that your guildmasters should consider not sending people into the canyon, try sending them a note or asking to speak to them about it.

Is it not a danger to the Hyra people, who hunt and gather in those areas the boar is found? Has not this boar likely already killed or maimed one or more of the hyra people?

Have you seen the Hyra fight? Do you think they'd want outside help rather than tasking their own exceptionally-capable hunters and warriors to deal with problems, considering their apparent disdain for outsiders?

the mercenary would have decline and ask each time for a removal of all Stone Canyon tasks to get around this incongruous rp situation the guild tries to put him in.

Sounds like a good way to keep out of trouble, if that's your desire.

Rias wrote:They're certainly not being contracted by the Hyra. As to how the Coalition finds out about the particular critter in the first place, I'm confident in peoples' (both Coalition-affiliated and non) willingness to ignore the Hyra's desire to be left alone in favor of their own self-interest. Maybe it was reported by a mercenary out there training, or a hunter who was out there hunting/trapping, a forager looking for rarer herbs that grow in the canyon - any number of situations could come up. One way or another, some non-Hyra person decided it was worth informing the Coalition Mercenaries and asking for their help dealing with it. If you think the current issue is a big deal and that your guildmasters should consider not sending people into the canyon, try sending them a note or asking to speak to them about it.

Is it not a danger to the Hyra people, who hunt and gather in those areas the boar is found? Has not this boar likely already killed or maimed one or more of the hyra people?

Have you seen the Hyra fight? Do you think they'd want outside help rather than tasking their own exceptionally-capable hunters and warriors to deal with problems, considering their apparent disdain for outsiders?

the mercenary would have decline and ask each time for a removal of all Stone Canyon tasks to get around this incongruous rp situation the guild tries to put him in.

Sounds like a good way to keep out of trouble, if that's your desire.

Then it expands into a larger question...why even have the area? It exists only as a frustrating source of punishment. Might as well take it out of the game. CLOK's world is fairly small as far as MUD's go...why make it smaller this way?

Kent wrote:Then it expands into a larger question...why even have the area? It exists only as a frustrating source of punishment. Might as well take it out of the game.

I asked in this thread if the GMs were trying to shut Stone Canyon down, and I received an emphatic no. I trust the GMs here and take them at their word.

We're working on it ICly. Something is going to change, and how it changes depends on what people do. It'll be interesting. If you're not sure whether or not recent events are generating RP, just take a look at the Shadgard town board which has exploded with people expressing their opinions. I'm finding myself standing opposite some characters that I really like and respect, and that is usually when the serious RP really happens. It's easy when you always agree with someone or when you can clearly label someone as your enemy; It's more challenging when you're opposed by your friends and have to determine just how far to take things.

Elystole wrote:

Kent wrote:Then it expands into a larger question...why even have the area? It exists only as a frustrating source of punishment. Might as well take it out of the game.

I asked in this thread if the GMs were trying to shut Stone Canyon down, and I received an emphatic no. I trust the GMs here and take them at their word.

Sure, they can leave the code in, but if a player can only enter Stone Canyon in jeopardy of the severe punishments the game deals out (see what's on the Shadgard Post Board right now), then it is effectively out of the game (but to a favoured very few who are granted faction neutrality), except as a teaser for novice players who find this out the hard way...as is the Scarecrow farm. Some sense of humour :(

Elystole wrote:We're working on it ICly. Something is going to change, and how it changes depends on what people do. It'll be interesting. If you're not sure whether or not recent events are generating RP, just take a look at the Shadgard town board which has exploded with people expressing their opinions. I'm finding myself standing opposite some characters that I really like and respect, and that is usually when the serious RP really happens. It's easy when you always agree with someone or when you can clearly label someone as your enemy; It's more challenging when you're opposed by your friends and have to determine just how far to take things.

Most of us have inadequate information about which side we should stand on, and what the official policy of the town we live in is, if any - and what form of 'justice' our town may decide to mete out on us if we go into the canyon to fulfill a guild task or collect a bit of fraer root. Reminds me of a famous movie quote: "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

Just for the record, I always thought those boars and salamanders Kent was tasked to take out were killing local hyra, and the task was benefitting them. The hyra not accepting his help in defeating these particularly dangerous creatures, Kent for one will turn down all Stone Canyon tasks and leave the hyra to their own problems.

Kent wrote:Sure, they can leave the code in, but if a player can only enter Stone Canyon in jeopardy of the severe punishments the game deals out (see what's on the Shadgard Post Board right now), then it is effectively out of the game (but to a favoured very few who are granted faction neutrality), except as a teaser for novice players who find this out the hard way...as is the Scarecrow farm. Some sense of humour :(

I think Rias adequately addressed whether Stone Canyon is shutting down mechanically or effectively via in-game punishments in that thread (emphasis mine):

Rias wrote:There aren't any plans to shut down Stone Canyon. Why would we want to? Can you share any insight regarding what led you to think we were planning on doing so? It encompasses a huge number of sub-areas, we love the place, and it's also a monument, so to speak, to the GM who made it - Landion. This isn't the first time the Hyra have gotten upset at intruders on their land to result in dramatic tension and conflict, and I'm sure it won't be the last. There won't be any closures of the area, no matter how upset the Hyra get. The RP surrounding the situation has built up over time. We've had a lot of requests for things to get more dicey and conflicted, and hey - here's interesting conflict! Time to decide where your character stands, what they're willing to do or not do about the situation, what their "last straw" will be, and so on.

Understand that the roleplay surrounding this situation has been almost entirely PC-driven, from the days of yore to right now. All the Hyra events/RP/drama/what-have-you has been, I'd say, 95% work of the PCs and 5% work of the GMs. And I love that. All we ever really do is occasionally have an NPC chime in to share some thoughts on the situation.

That said, Kent, I understand your frustration. I was especially bummed as one of those novice players who felt like he was finally breaking out of the minor leagues just to have the warning come down the day after I first really enter Stone Canyon, but Rias is generally a cool guy and when he says that they aren't shutting Stone Canyon down, I believe him. Poke the RP some more and see what is going on. And if it seems like I am coming down on you, it's because I don't want the GMs to think, "We've had a lot of requests for things to get more dicey and conflicted - but the last time we did that all that happened was a lot of complaining so screw it."

Also, I don't think the comparison of Stone Canyon to the Scarecrow Farm is fair. For starters, the Scarecrows were friendly until someone did something really bad to upset them. The Scarecrows have claimed a much smaller territory that also doesn't double as the only route to a number of other areas. And there is no shortage of newbie areas for people to train in instead of harassing the Scarecrows, whereas higher-level areas are limited.

Kent wrote:The hyra not accepting his help in defeating these particularly dangerous creatures, Kent for one will turn down all Stone Canyon tasks and leave the hyra to their own problems.

Apparently that's what they want, and Kent doing that is certainly one of the options being presented right now.

tl;dr: The GMs aren't closing Stone Canyon. Go and RP. If you aren't interested, Rias conveniently posted alternative training areas so you can still do that.

Elystole wrote:
Also, I don't think the comparison of Stone Canyon to the Scarecrow Farm is fair. For starters, the Scarecrows were friendly until someone did something really bad to upset them. The Scarecrows have claimed a much smaller territory that also doesn't double as the only route to a number of other areas. And there is no shortage of newbie areas for people to train in instead of harassing the Scarecrows, whereas higher-level areas are limited.

The comparison was to the fact that 'novice player' goes in there and get punished for it, including getting killed or worse.


As for RP, the scarecrows and hyra are red when you see them, meaning they hate you even though they don't know you. Some good RP would be for someone tough to go in there and beat the hate right out of them. But then, certain delicate folk wouldn't understand.

It's worth mentioning that one Dwaedn PC spoke to her guildmaster, and managed to get "Kill Hyra" tasks removed from the list of "Things Dwaedn Wyr get sent to do". I don't know of any mercenaries that had ever tried that, when I was actively playing.

Kent wrote:As for RP, the scarecrows and hyra are red when you see them, meaning they hate you even though they don't know you. Some good RP would be for someone tough to go in there and beat the hate right out of them. But then, certain delicate folk wouldn't understand.

That's certainly an option and dealing with the repercussions is part of that RP.

I'll even tell you that while Elystole is actively "giving peace a chance" and seeking a negotiated agreement, he expects the Dunwyr to attack a hamlet or something in the Hyra's name. At that point his policy will switch from "the Hyra have a legitimate claim to the lands they are using, so let's try to work something out" to "the Hyra are a bunch of xenophobic slavers allied with those murderous Smoke [Witch] cultists, and it's past time they were exterminated." And that'll be interesting RP because I can immediately think of two characters that Elystole really likes who would not appreciate that development, plus however many other people who would be horrified by a display of savagery.

All of this would make some fabulous in-game, in-character discussion.