CLOK BBS

As a player, I find that I am actually disgusted by some of the OOC behavior in-game lately and I'm not entirely innocent when it comes to what I'm referring to. Several times in the last few days I've found myself logging out, turning off OOC or even raging at other players to vent because of this behavior and I'd really like it to stop.

We're a very small, tight-knit community. Just because we all know each other fairly well and know how to push each other's buttons doesn't make it acceptable behavior. Nor is it something I want newcomers to see and get a false first impression with. Text rarely has tone, or may represent the wrong tone. Even if you mean something as a joke or innocent question, it can be taken differently. Be conscious of what you're typing.

If you have a problem with another player do not badmouth them publicly (whether or not they are online), do not antagonize them publicly, and if you feel you cannot adhere to those standards - turn off OOC, logout, resort to arguing via tells with that person directly if you absolutely must - I really don't care. Whatever you decide to do, don't post your bad behavior for all to see on one of the public channels. It just makes you look bad.

On that note - you know what else looks bad? One-upmanship. If someone is going on and on with negativity, you arguing with them will just keep things going. Be the bigger person and stop. Use Karma. Tell your buddies to use Karma. There are ways to end abusive conversations. Use them.

I firmly believe that as a community we can all get along and work together to improve the game, help each other with concerns and provide constructive feedback without resorting to this type of behavior. Let's stay friendly, guys.

Additionally, if you have a request, suggestion, bug to report - please use the appropriate methods and contact channels provided (question, report, bug, forums). The GMs are very busy and not everything can be answered or implemented immediately. Their eagerness to assist immediately should not be taken advantage of.

Lately I get the impression some discussion in OOC is started via that channel in the hopes that a GM will be pressured into discussion since it's out there for all to see. In some of these cases they have already made things perfectly clear via announcements or posts on the boards. If you have a question, perhaps re-reading that post will give a fresh perspective and answer your concern.

And please don't think I'm saying use of OOC and in-game discussion is forbidden. In-game discussion is fine - that's what OOC is there for and I encourage people to use it. But let's try not discuss and rediscuss things repeatedly. It generates player confusion with misinterpretations, or conflicting information. These debates lead to the bad behavior mentioned above whether intentionally or not. People give curt answers or are openly rude or contradictory of each other instead of being supportive or helpful. If someone has the wrong idea, help them out, support your response, be kind, and again - tone isn't always visible via text. I don't think I can say that enough. Something can come off entirely not how you intended it.

Remember that if a change is posted or mentioned by a GM there is usually an associated, detailed forums post or wiki page to explain it. You can always add constructive feedback, criticism, questions, suggestions or ideas there since OOC isn't always the best place for GMs to review a player's concerns at a later date - sometimes they have it turned off so they can work on things or a GM may not even be online to see what you have to say. Even if they are online, they're humans and can forget things. Let's try to help them out by making finding your ideas easier.

While I would like to see better interaction from everybody, I adamantly hope that the mentors especially will consider this. If you are a mentor in this game you represent the game whether you believe it or not. Doing anything to jeopardize another player's gameplay experience, regardless of your personal feelings, is a poor reflection on everything the GMs, developers and staff have worked to create.

I for one am sick of hearing negative remarks regarding other players being thrown out willy nilly. Let people formulate their own opinions of others and keep your opinions to yourself.

Sorry for the rant, well... not really. Thanks for reading though.

Good post. You're right about tone not coming across well in text. I've made some comments on OOC where I was just trying to be helpful or provide accurate information, or had a genuine question. Later I found out it upset someone by being interpreted as me being snooty or know it all, or trying to push someone's buttons by asking that particular question. It was frustrating and discouraging. So now I usually just say hello and see you later when I log on and off. I have never wanted to attack anyone or hurt their feelings or try to put myself above anyone. I guess that's how I come across sometimes though. So rather than risk it I just keep quiet and concentrate on IC.

The two points you made I agree with most are, if you don't like someone, don't take it public, especially not on OOC. What will people think if they log into this game and see people bashing each other on what is supposed to be the help channel. It's made me want to sign out before. Luckily we can just turn off OOC but that's not the way it should be. I shouldn't have to turn off the help channel because people are using it to share their personal grudges with everyone and making a lot of noise and an uncomfortable situation. Send tells to each other if you want to fight. The rest of us shouldn't have to deal with your personal problems. That probably sounded callous or something, so tell me if that is out of line.

That leads to the other point you made which is, we don't want newcomers to witness things like this. If my first day in CLOK I saw people fighting OOC with each other and name calling and putting other players down, I would have left to find somewhere else to play where people respect each other as fellow players. IC conflict and drama is great. OOC conflict and drama is not. We are all here to play a game and have some fun. I know problems with other people can come up. It's inevitable with people from so many different walks of life meeting up like this online. Some people will rub you the wrong way or just be plain mean or rude to you. Please handle that with them or get staff involved if you think that is necessary. Don't bring it public though or respond to it publicly. It will just perpetuate the problem. Ignoring people who try to get under your skin or make you angry is usually a good way to deal with them, they get bored and stop. Fighting with them where everyone can see is probably just giving them what they want.

I agree that OOC gets out of hand very frequently, and I share in a lot of the frustrations mentioned here. Many of the items listed above can easily turn away new players visiting our MUD for the first time. I feel this is a serious problem, as we don't exactly have a large player base right now and we could always use more.

In addition the frustrations in the original post, I've also noticed how easy it is for people to take knowledge gained from observing the OOC chat and applying it to their character's IC actions. I know some people may find this difficult to avoid, and sometimes it may even feel a bit silly, but I really do feel that sometimes having OOC chat can be a huge detriment to individual RP.

I've played a MUD for over 15 years that was also an RP-Enforced MUD and had absolutely no public OOC chat at all. The average player in that MUD didn't take role-playing super seriously, but combined with the fact that people were forced to use IC means to converse with each other the majority of the time, I found it a much more enriching and entertaining environment than what I feel CLOK has become with the constant OOC/Chat chatter.

I honestly feel that the frequent use of OOC/Chat can not only cause people to be unfairly opinionated of other people's characters that they've had no real IC interaction with, but also lessens the value of the events we sometimes try to run for the players and even promotes some of the lone-wolf mentality that we've been struggling so hard to dispel. Why bother working together when you can do all your socializing and get all your information OOCly?

I could not agree more to all of this. And I am not arrogant enough to believe myself completely innocent, either. I try to avoid my own pet peaves, but not always successfully. Still, I have more than once turned off ooc because of all the ooc bashing going on. That said, I will say that I have seen some improvement, at least where the direct bashing of one particular player is concerned, and for that I thank those who were involved... You know who you are.

One thing that has bothered me, and it's really a fine line, is the asking ooc things that could be asked IC. Again, I'm likely guilty of this too. It's hard sometimes to know what my character should already know and is a fair ooc question, and what would be very reasonable to just ask IC without looking like a fool. Still, questions such as whether a locksmith is around, or what is happening in the IC world during events whether player or GM driven, in my opinion should never be asked on ooc, ever.

On the other hand, I do think it very fair to ask game related questions on ooc in an attempt to understand something... Referring to mechanics and things like that. I know that a lot of things are here on the bbs or the wiki and that's great, but at least for the moment, in game documentation is somewhat sparse. Some may not be able to easily access the website. I can, but sometimes my computer gets funky with that, so I try very hard to do as much in game as I can, whether it be reporting things or getting information. As a result, I do end up asking a lot of things over ooc.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

I'm just going to quickly point out one pet peeve I've developed regarding the chat channel on Clok:

People who narrate certain things their character is doing, especially if those actions are potentially conflict-causing. Mundane things like foraging or whatever don't bother me, but if you're on chat talking about that pile of riln you just stole out of somebody's backpack, you're potentially destroying some of the sense of immersion people want to keep while still having chat available. I try as hard as I can to separate IC from OOC, but it gets very difficult to ignore the urge to avoid certain characters because I know what they're doing thanks to the chat channel.

Ok, here's one that gets on my last nerve. For the most part, I don't really care if people are making asses of themselves on chat -- karma - is a great command, and that makes my feelings known. The way I view it is if people don't like it, there's an option to turn chat off, or if there is a disruption, use karma - so the rest of us can chat away without having that issue.

One thing though that I find rude and quite off-putting is some of the responces on question that will come up. If a person asks "How do I brawl?" and someone responds, "Take a lesson from Chuck Norrus," it's completely not an answer to the question and makes not only that person look kind of like a jerk but really could bring forth a player's insecurity to feel the tight-nit, cooperative community here, and leave at worst, or feel they can't ever ask a question again without someone being a smartass.

If you're going to answer the question, fine, if you're not going to answer it with any constructive answer, then, seriously, don't.

I would like to add my absolute agreement here. I can say for myself that if I come to a game as a newbie, ask a genuine question, and someone pops out with a snarky nonhelpful answer, I very quickly get the impression that newbies and their questions are not welcome. I know there's no policy regarding this, but I strongly believe that question should be kept for real questions and real answers.

faylen wrote:I strongly believe that question should be kept for real questions and real answers.

That's its sole purpose. If you (general you) want to give a clever non-helpful answer, use chat. People who respond on Question trying to be "funny" without giving any actual helpful info will be slapped, because as stated here, it gives the impression that the asker's question was dumb or that they're not worth giving a real answer to, and that turns people away.