On the horizon: Ability Trees, Class Specializations, and Guilds

[ydia]

I am curious where herbalism will fall.

Physickers will definitely get the best of creating healing items and such. Monks will get some options there as well, as at least flavor-wise it's always been implied that they gather healing herbs for this purpose (you may recall the tasks they had to gather those) and I've always had the idea in the back of my mind that they maintain some kind of herb garden somewhere as well or something like that. Some other classes will probably get some low-level basic herbal healing options, like Rangers making a basic healing unguent. I don't want it to be completely available to anyone though, because then it becomes another "why not" thing that everyone does because everyone can, and then there's nothing special about the people who want to make it a specific meaningful part of their character.
[/quote]
Fair. I just wanted to insure it's not cut out when it is a major part of my character's story. I am fine just doing somethings. She can then make friends with physickers she refers others too! <3 It makes sense that the monks along with others practice some level of herbalism. I know many of us started our church paths with just that when we didn't have the inner light healing yet! This makes me excited for the upcoming changes after all. Thank you for putting my fears to rest!

[Squeak]

Unless I've missed something, Ranged characters seem to have a lack of defensive abilities. With that in mind, I'd like to suggest Combat Style: Finesse (and possibly pragmatic) could be learned with either ranged or melee combat proficiency. That way it gives ranged playstyles, either mundane (archery, slings, firearms) or magic, the option to take Dodge Proficiency as a way to boost their defensive rolls, without having to allot an additional ability.

[Alexander]

It is wonderful to have some combat abilities again. Thank you for all the effort and updates.

[Dorn]

Interested in poking my head in, and seeing how this changes up mucking around. Nice to see such a large step taken towards fleshing out the combat side of things.

[Adresin]

So I noticed something with my Utasa, and I'm wondering if it's intentional.

She's primarily focused on ranged, since she's stealth heavy. However, at least so far, if she were to take the ranged proficiency ability, this would locker her out of the classes utasa can take. Now, we don't have bard or rogue yet so I don't know if this will change but, at the moment, here's how it stands. To take duelist requires combat style finesse. However, to take that, requires melee proficiency. If she takes melee proficiency, then she can't get ranged proficiency, and as a result can't get the ranged abilities that would really fit her. Should duelist be locked into melee like that?

[Rias]

If she takes melee proficiency, then she can't get ranged proficiency

Hrm, what messaging are you seeing when you try? They shouldn't be exclusive to each other, and I was just able to take Melee Combat Proficiency and then Ranged Combat Proficiency from the trainers in the Shadgard barracks.

[Adresin]

Welp, I'm dumb. Lol not really, but clearly I wasn't paying attention. I think what happened is since the defense profs are exclusive, I had it in my head that these were, too. Sorry about that!

[Vazbol]

I think the issue some people were poking at before with that melee prof thing was that someone had to burn an ability point on MCP. if they had no desire entirely to invest in melee, it can feel like a wasted point.

Though this is where some more specializations and general abilities down the pipeline can help. Usually, people are doing this stuff more for the defensive abilities. If those defensive abilities can be found on specs with no MCP requirement, that might not be so bad. And this is after I theorcrafted a couple of ranged setups for the melee specializations. but that just gave me ideas for new abilities to hybridize.

[ydia]

When can we expect other crafting abilities to be back? Things like weaving/tailoring and pottery?

[Rias]

More class trainer NPCs!

Bard: Jerromir at the Mummers' Camp is available to all regardless of faction (unless you're hated by the Mummers themselves). Yes, you'll have to travel out of your home town. That's bard life for you! We'll probably get in-town Bard trainers eventually.
Ranger: Stian in Shadgard at the Lost Ranger Hunter's Lounge, a ragged-looking ranger in Corvus at Murky's Pub (he'll get a name and additional flavorful details added later).
Rogue: Molly in Shadgard at the Twin Dagger Tavern, Murky in Corvus at Murky's Pub (I'm not sure about this one thematically, but it works for now.)

Note: These three classes are considered more focused on utility, and are not meant to be top-tier fighters! Don't expect to be on the same fighting level as the combat-focused classes if you choose one of these, just like the combat-focused classes shouldn't expect to have as much utility as these classes. These three are a little leaner in the ability quantity department, but their abilities are more focused around their particular classes. As with all classes and ability-related stuff at the moment, it's still a work in progress.

Another Note: Keep in mind that while there are class requirements for various Guilds, not all characters are required nor expected to join a Guild. The idea is that people who don't find any of the Guilds to be a particularly tempting or fitting option can just choose to remain guildless. It'll lack the flavor and extras that the guilds provide, but class specializations on their own are still perfectly viable!

Yet Another Note: Artifice actions (item stealing/planting/palming and sleight of hand tricks) now require the Sleight of Hand ability, currently available to Rogues, Bards, Nightblades, and Marauders. Similar to how crafting breadth and availability is being limited, I also don't want artifice to be a "why not" situation where everyone eventually becomes an expert pickpocket just because it's something available for everyone to train up without any meaningful investment or limitation.

When can we expect other crafting abilities to be back? Things like weaving/tailoring and pottery?

Soon(TM)!

[Rias]

Unless I've missed something, Ranged characters seem to have a lack of defensive abilities. With that in mind, I'd like to suggest Combat Style: Finesse (and possibly pragmatic) could be learned with either ranged or melee combat proficiency. That way it gives ranged playstyles, either mundane (archery, slings, firearms) or magic, the option to take Dodge Proficiency as a way to boost their defensive rolls, without having to allot an additional ability.

I've set up Ranged Proficiency as another path to Dodge Proficiency, and added the Dodge Proficiency ability to trainers Tonalli, Falore, and Hettan. So yeah, someone could technically do something like go Combat Style: Heavy, then grab Ranged Proficiency, and then get Dodge Proficiency, but I mean ... if they really want to be that suboptimal about their investment and exclusive defense proficiency ability, power to them, I guess? We'll see if anything comes up that makes this new situation feel too goofy, but it'll probably be fine.

[Squeak]

Unless I've missed something, Ranged characters seem to have a lack of defensive abilities. With that in mind, I'd like to suggest Combat Style: Finesse (and possibly pragmatic) could be learned with either ranged or melee combat proficiency. That way it gives ranged playstyles, either mundane (archery, slings, firearms) or magic, the option to take Dodge Proficiency as a way to boost their defensive rolls, without having to allot an additional ability.

I've set up Ranged Proficiency as another path to Dodge Proficiency, and added the Dodge Proficiency ability to trainers Tonalli, Falore, and Hettan. So yeah, someone could technically do something like go Combat Style: Heavy, then grab Ranged Proficiency, and then get Dodge Proficiency, but I mean ... if they really want to be that suboptimal about their investment and exclusive defense proficiency ability, power to them, I guess? We'll see if anything comes up that makes this new situation feel too goofy, but it'll probably be fine.

Greatly appreciate this, thank you.

Something else I just noticed; Is it intended that Urban Stealth has no pre-requisites, but Woodland Stealth is locked behind class specializations?

[Rias]

Something else I just noticed; Is it intended that Urban Stealth has no pre-requisites, but Woodland Stealth is locked behind class specializations?

Whoops. I'll set it to have class prereqs for now, though the stealth abilities will eventually probably have their own stealth proficiency parent node. I spent most of my prerequisite prep effort on the combat abilities, clearly.

[Zeldryn]

Apologies to nag, but I saw this pop up while I was logged in.

In regard to flip flank-- that duelists and nightblades get with flip-- I don't believe it's currently set up to function as intended. I can still do performance flips, but I don't believe I can flip into the flanking position as of yet. this would be neat to see, when possible.

[Rias]

In regard to flip flank-- that duelists and nightblades get with flip-- I don't believe it's currently set up to function as intended. I can still do performance flips, but I don't believe I can flip into the flanking position as of yet. this would be neat to see, when possible.

Fixed!

[Zeldryn]

THIS MAN IS COOKING.

Thank you, sir.

[Ninetales16]

In regard to flip flank-- that duelists and nightblades get with flip-- I don't believe it's currently set up to function as intended. I can still do performance flips, but I don't believe I can flip into the flanking position as of yet. this would be neat to see, when possible.

Fixed!

no words. that's all I can say. my dream is here. I can be a full fledged flipper now. <3

[Zeldryn]

In regard to flip flank-- that duelists and nightblades get with flip-- I don't believe it's currently set up to function as intended. I can still do performance flips, but I don't believe I can flip into the flanking position as of yet. this would be neat to see, when possible.

Fixed!

no words. that's all I can say. my dream is here. I can be a full fledged flipper now. <3

Hate to burst your bubble-- i was mistaken. duelists and bards get it. not nightblades!

[Ninetales16]

you really did burst my buble. excellent fish pun. no more being a flipper for me

[verel]

I'm not gonna lie.

Seeing those class/guild selections particularly for Dwaednwyr makes me feel like there's something missing.

I at least think Marauder should be an option for them as we're not protecting anyone and any animal we fight isn't concerned with if we got an "honorable" kill or not. Yes, we respect animals but the goal is to make us and them stronger. How we do it shouldn't be limited to a specific style of fighting except for perhaps guardian since we guard no one.


I know a lot of people are gonna disagree with me from the jump and I blame no person for having a different opinion. But that's just how I understand it. I'd get it if we're supposed to be characters of morality and justice. But far as I know, Dwaednwyr aren't brought up on that kind of thing and nature is not kind and clean, it's mean and dirty.

[Vazbol]

On the topic of marauders (and by extension rogues and bards), has there been further discussion about how artifice is going to be taught out and what skill will be tied to pragmatic maneuvers? Since we don't have an artifice trainer while this is being decided on, it's unintendedly slowed down practice for people who are actually wanting to run thief char concepts. Grinding artifice with training was slow. Though speaking with someone trying to raise artifice through thievery, it's been difficult, and they've gone onto raising other skills for now until a trainer appears.

Though onto the combat spec itself, it's hard to predict what to train up at the moment. I heard perception was being talked about, but that it and other skills like stealth were being rediscussed on how gains would work. Along with that, there's currently not really a follow up to dirt kicking right now. Lowering perception is nice, but there's nothing else combat wise to follow up with other than another dirt kick that defends with perception.
Even its old use on COGG for setting up advantage early with shameless opportunist isn't live, as that ability does not actually do anything right now.

I know the class spec probably isn't the most widely selected one right now, considering it only is compatible with 3 guilds, and two of them are ones not every player would want to join. There's other systems also probably needing more work right now, along with playstyles actually needing guild work for most functionality (elemancer, rooks and primalists represent!) So work on that and some of the utility guild/specs would need more prodding during the hectic holiday season. Though, i do have to admit I am a little bummed the class spec I selected and recommended to some friends spitballing ideas seems the least implemented into the current system.