High-Level Content

[Elystole]

I want to talk a bit about Stone Canyon from the OOC standpoint of high-level content. I'm not questioning the roleplay that is going on, and, if you saw my other post, I enjoyed the fighting. What has changed is that it seems like GMs are getting involved with the effect of shutting the area down, and when I mentioned it to one the response was "Didn't you see the sign?" That response may have been a joke, but another comment I received was something to the effect of "The problem is that you're reaching our upper-end content so there's fewer options." That's true and a subject that I think is worth exploring.

This thread makes it clear that Stone Canyon was developed as a high-level hunting area. I've even learned that characters used to receive tasks to go kill Hyra. So the RP of it being "Hyra territory" that we're supposed to avoid was added later and apparently without filling the void that created.

For example, both personal exploration and asking veteran characters has revealed no other areas with high-level animals to skin. There's the Shadgard Forest Trail, and then there's Stone Canyon. That's it. If there was anywhere else I could go to fill that niche, I'd be less inclined to risk a regional incident. There'd be options.

As a new player, Stone Canyon quickly acquired near-mythical status. That's where all the cool, powerful characters went, and if you weren't part of that group then going there was a death sentence. Even if you were part of that group, it was still exceedingly dangerous and most of them still avoided it. So, being competitive, going to Stone Canyon, the Desert of Desolation, Thaelsh, and places I don't even know the name of to face off against things like rocs, giant scorpions, basilisks, or even drakolins was added to the to-do list. I've seen other character's trophies on the walls and heard their stories. I wanted some of that too.

So finally being able to hunt in Stone Canyon was a point of pride for me. And the next day I'm being told that's not acceptable anymore, and it seems like it's coming from the GMs. And, yes, I did see the sign. But everyone I know ignored it: The rule seemed to be not to attack the Hyra, but that if you had to go through Stone Canyon to get to where you were going, well, you had to go through Stone Canyon. Even after the tunnel was dug (which most people can't use - and I've asked for permission), Church members would go through Stone Canyon if they were part of a group. Even people on friendly terms with the Hyra would take other people through Stone Canyon if necessary. And if you got attacked, that's just one of the things that makes Stone Canyon dangerous, fun, and, well, Stone Canyon. It's a gauntlet.

Right now I'm torn between the RP of not wanting to be the guy blamed for getting Keth wiped off the map, the RP of not liking the Hyra anyways for various reasons and thinking their policy is absurd, and my IC/OOC desire to train effectively, challenge myself, and make some stories of my own. I don't know what all the GMs have planned, but I think losing Stone Canyon would be a blow to the game's high-end content and it's culture. The place has its own mythos.

[Rias]

There aren't any plans to shut down Stone Canyon. Why would we want to? Can you share any insight regarding what led you to think we were planning on doing so? It encompasses a huge number of sub-areas, we love the place, and it's also a monument, so to speak, to the GM who made it - Landion. This isn't the first time the Hyra have gotten upset at intruders on their land to result in dramatic tension and conflict, and I'm sure it won't be the last. There won't be any closures of the area, no matter how upset the Hyra get. The RP surrounding the situation has built up over time. We've had a lot of requests for things to get more dicey and conflicted, and hey - here's interesting conflict! Time to decide where your character stands, what they're willing to do or not do about the situation, what their "last straw" will be, and so on.

Understand that the roleplay surrounding this situation has been almost entirely PC-driven, from the days of yore to right now. All the Hyra events/RP/drama/what-have-you has been, I'd say, 95% work of the PCs and 5% work of the GMs. And I love that. All we ever really do is occasionally have an NPC chime in to share some thoughts on the situation.

As for higher-level hunting areas elsehwere:

- On par with outer Stone Canyon: Ravaged Wagon Camp
- On par with Hyra: Redleaf Overlook
- On par with Deset of Desolation: Infested Logging Camp
(P.S. Desert of Desolation is going to get moved out of Stone Canyon. It just doesn't make sense having a sweltering-hot desert right down a trail (literally one room away, and it's not even a wilderness move) from a high-elevation frigid forested mountain environment.)

Now that said, I'd be thrilled to add more places for higher-skilled people to train skills. I love building, and I haven't done it in a long long time, and I'm feeling the itch like crazy (Noccy, don't even bring up butterflies!). So who knows? Maybe more places will pop up soon.

[Elystole]

There aren't any plans to shut down Stone Canyon. Why would we want to? Can you share any insight regarding what led you to think we were planning on doing so?

The part that concerned me was the Hyra (an NPC faction) threatening retaliation. I figured only a GM could really make that threat or make good on it, and it had the effect of making Stone Canyon off-limits. So not a mechanical shutdown but still an effective one. Who wants to see a hamlet get attacked each time someone goes for a hike? One of the RP issues is the potentially disproportionate (depending on how you look at it) response between what is going on and what the Hyra might do. And that made me wonder if the GMs are trying to say something. Am I thinking too much? Probably. It's a really hard habit for an analyst to break.

Still, I'm glad to hear that shutting down Stone Canyon isn't the goal of this recent development. My character can be unhappy and wait for the other shoe to drop while I'm looking forward to diving back in.

This isn't the first time the Hyra have gotten upset at intruders on their land to result in dramatic tension and conflict, and I'm sure it won't be the last. There won't be any closures of the area, no matter how upset the Hyra get. The RP surrounding the situation has built up over time. We've had a lot of requests for things to get more dicey and conflicted, and hey - here's interesting conflict! Time to decide where your character stands, what they're willing to do or not do about the situation, what their "last straw" will be, and so on.

Understand that the roleplay surrounding this situation has been almost entirely PC-driven, from the days of yore to right now. All the Hyra events/RP/drama/what-have-you has been, I'd say, 95% work of the PCs and 5% work of the GMs. And I love that. All we ever really do is occasionally have an NPC chime in to share some thoughts on the situation.

I am enjoying the conflict, which is why I posted about enjoying getting my butt kicked. Of course, the effect was less "I'll stay away from that area" and more "Now that I know where to find you, I'm going to train harder, equip myself better, and come back for a rematch." Plus some "What the hell just happened?! That was kind of cool." And the conflict has already created a few interesting RP scenarios and conversations with different people. Depending on how things go, people could get to see a side of Elystole that he usually keeps contained.

And I have no problem with a PC saying "Hey, you're not allowed in here," and trying to gank me when I don't listen. I don't even mind a GM grabbing an NPC or mob to make trouble. It adds to the excitement and danger, and it encourages paying attention to what you're doing and training smart so that you aren't caught at a really bad time. Am I going to be able to hunt in peace today? Or is someone going to jump me while I'm already tired and fighting two bears?

As for higher-level hunting areas elsehwere:

- On par with outer Stone Canyon: Ravaged Wagon Camp
- On par with Hyra: Redleaf Overlook
- On par with Deset of Desolation: Infested Logging Camp

This is good information to have. Thanks. I did find the Ravaged Wagon Camp, but since there's nothing to skin there it didn't quite fit the bill.

Now that said, I'd be thrilled to add more places for higher-skilled people to train skills. I love building, and I haven't done it in a long long time, and I'm feeling the itch like crazy (Noccy, don't even bring up butterflies!). So who knows? Maybe more places will pop up soon.

I really think we could use more animals for any aspiring big game hunters. None of the areas that you listed above (unless there's something hiding in Redleaf Overlook that I'm not aware of) have animals that can be skinned, and I'm not sure if the Hyra or the Desert have things that can be skinned (I haven't been able to skin insects or arachnids, and some things that you think are skinnable do bad things when you try). Not infested animals either, since they provide poor pelts at best. We even have a jungle now.

[Stranger]

I'd love to see a new high level area with super beasts that can be skinned. I myself do tend to hunt for skins when the mercenary business isn't bringing in the riln. Also if possible, may I request that the "high level" mean that they have a high dodge and attack rating NOT that they have super claws of death or unique attacks that rip your face off in one strike.

[Jaster]

As someone who is constantly in places I'm not supposed to be.... stay outta hyra territory people, you aint got no kinda business there!

[Rias]

I want to clarify and say that this isn't just the PCs involved going around BSing things. I don't mean to undermine the credibility of their parts they play in the events. They have general GM support as far as the seriousness of the happenings - there have been NPCs, Hyra included, involved from the GM side.

I say this because I don't want people to be all, "Oh, so this is just some goofy stuff that other players are doing on their own, it's not "real" stuff going on." On the other hand, I think it's great when PCs completely run things on their own. Just because GMs aren't involved doesn't mean people shouldn't take things seriously. As I mentioned before, GM activity in these partiuclar dealings has been extremely minor, and all the events have been driven primarily by PCs - but they should be considered "real" events.

I probably just shouldn't have said anything. I won't in the future.

[Makkah]

Now that said, I'd be thrilled to add more places for higher-skilled people to train skills. I love building, and I haven't done it in a long long time, and I'm feeling the itch like crazy (Noccy, don't even bring up butterflies!). So who knows? Maybe more places will pop up soon.

I really think we could use more animals for any aspiring big game hunters. None of the areas that you listed above (unless there's something hiding in Redleaf Overlook that I'm not aware of) have animals that can be skinned, and I'm not sure if the Hyra or the Desert have things that can be skinned (I haven't been able to skin insects or arachnids, and some things that you think are skinnable do bad things when you try). Not infested animals either, since they provide poor pelts at best. We even have a jungle now.

Shardlings used to be skinnable. Not sure if they still are or not. Draks are skinnable.

[Elystole]

I want to clarify and say that this isn't just the PCs involved going around BSing things. I don't mean to undermine the credibility of their parts they play in the events. They have general GM support as far as the seriousness of the happenings - there have been NPCs, Hyra included, involved from the GM side.

I say this because I don't want people to be all, "Oh, so this is just some goofy stuff that other players are doing on their own, it's not "real" stuff going on." On the other hand, I think it's great when PCs completely run things on their own. Just because GMs aren't involved doesn't mean people shouldn't take things seriously. As I mentioned before, GM activity in these partiuclar dealings has been extremely minor, and all the events have been driven primarily by PCs - but they should be considered "real" events.

I probably just shouldn't have said anything. I won't in the future.

I don't think anyone's been trying to say that an event is or isn't valid based on whether or not a GM is involved. A PC playing appropriate to their faction and RP, even if they are going solo, is still valid. GM involvement can significantly increase the stakes, but I don't think it is a requirement for validity.

[Kiyaani]

You can skin in three mounds if you don't mind infested pelts, and it should be hard enough for you.

[baerden]

Have you had a look under Kildr Dale?

Lots of skinnables there, fairly dangerous.

[Elystole]

You can skin in three mounds if you don't mind infested pelts, and it should be hard enough for you.

Only thing I found there was a single giant lizard.

Have you had a look under Kildr Dale?

Lots of skinnables there, fairly dangerous.

I have. Really interesting place, but the skinnables were too easy. Or had entertaining side effects.

[baerden]

You can skin in three mounds if you don't mind infested pelts, and it should be hard enough for you.

Only thing I found there was a single giant lizard.

Have you had a look under Kildr Dale?

Lots of skinnables there, fairly dangerous.

I have. Really interesting place, but the skinnables were too easy. Or had entertaining side effects.

Thar be Draks down there... well there used to be.

[Elystole]

Thar be Draks down there... well there used to be.

Yes, but drakolins received a boost not too long ago. The one I ran into was nasty and it'll likely be a long time before I take one down even with help. That's actually one of the reasons I focus on skinning: When I do finally bag a drakolin, I don't want to waste the hide and scales by botching my skinning rolls.

I like having something like that to work towards. Having drakolins looming in the distance as a challenge befitting their status... That's fun.

[Bryce]

Don't forget, you can also go hunt in Corvus.

[Jaster]

I have my own pair of demon hide undergarments, and I highly recommend them.

[Lysse]

I'm slightly late to the proverbial party, but I wanted to comment quickly on the issue of "PC based conflict".

Pretty much everything that's happened, when I was actively playing, regarding Stone Canyon and the Hyra has been completely player driven. And it was a LOT of fun, to be part of that kind of stuff. There's actually a couple of reasons, and maybe three key PCs, that deal into why my PC, personally, warns people out of the Canyon when I play her (something she's usually glad to spout off about, when she isn't going on about how useless money is).

I'd also like to point out that the sign wasn't always there, and was added (I believe) after some RP I did on my own on my character.

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