Still scratching my head

[Nathaniel]

I have no idea what the boy (Ricky) did but he is now stuck in Mistral Lake. Most guards don't attack him, but keep him from exiting the city. One fisherman keeps attacking him. He claims that he didn't do anything wrong in town. I am trying to do is figure out what the issue is and fix it. So my question is 1) is there a way to see if your character has wronged a city such as seeing a bounty on yourself or something like that. 2) is there a way to atone if you have wronged a city. 3) if all else fails how do you delete your character so you can start again. Thanks for the help.

-Nate

[Kiyaani]

Usually if you did something wrong you'll be offered the chance to 'surrender' before a guard attacks you. You can read the wanted posters in the town square to see if the name shows up. Surrendering usually means a set-duration prison term and a fine for the crime. If it was something more heinous than that it may require RP to resolve.

[Rias]

I have no idea what the boy (Ricky) did ... He claims that he didn't do anything wrong in town. ... 1) is there a way to see if your character has wronged a city

In Town Square:

look wanted posters
Several wanted posters are hung on the side of the Town Hall, some of them appearing aged and yellow, others clean and crisp.
You look over some wanted posters hung on the back of a large post board.
(various other people)
Ricky: Assault, Assault of a Law Officer, Resisting Arrest

Should be pretty easy to guess what they're upset about if he's attacked citizens and law officers in the recent past. The guards are preventing him from moving through the guardhouse because they're trying to arrest him. He can surrender to give himself up.

2) is there a way to atone if you have wronged a city.

Nothing automated, as people would easily game the system. FYI, towns aren't too fond of people who go around randomly attacking citizens and law officers, so they aren't likely to be very willing to turn the other cheek in this case.

3) if all else fails how do you delete your character so you can start again.

No way to delete and restart an existing character. He'll have to make a new one with a different name.

[Aerotine]

I think, at least for new players, this system needs to be tweeked.

When still under the 35 skill level newbie bonus, fines and what not should be negated and jail time should be reduced to a judge explaining what you did wrong and how to avoid it in the future.

This could be automated but it would give new players the chance to screw up and not be fined 5,500 riln and lose all of their possessions right out of the gate.

It would be akin to going before the judge for juvie.

I think this level of punishment is totally appropriate after you've learned the mechanics of the game and how to make money.

However, I think this level of punishment would deter new players from joining the ranks out of immediate frustration for the system.

Dev's thoughts?

[Kiyaani]

I'm not a dev - that's pretty clear - but I do want to throw in my two cents.

I don't think removing the penalty for those under the newbie buff is the way to go. Perhaps something could be added to the tutorial explaining crime/punishment, but how the system works now is already a major concession to how it used to be (shoot on sight). If you break the law, you're going to have to deal with the consequences and I'm pretty sure no one in the lost lands is going to be so lenient just because you're new in town.

[Aerotine]

Thank you for the input Kiyaani. Obviously though, there are some things that should be tweaked not to scare off new players.

Perhaps the punishment should be less severe just out of the gate somehow. Maybe a reduced fine or some such re-35 skill level n00b buff.

I understand the idea of "this is the wild wild west and we just KOS anyone we f*ing want to for anything" but I think that, especially in a place like Shadgard, there would be some understanding.

Maybe there's less in Mistral, and even less off on the evil side of the world...but this is a game, a game meant to have the world inhabited...not chase people off before they get a chance.

[Rias]

I understand the idea of "this is the wild wild west and we just KOS anyone we f*ing want to for anything" but I think that, especially in a place like Shadgard, there would be some understanding.

If it were something minor like petty theft or burglary, they'd just be arrested, fined, and sent on their way. The person in question violently assaulted citizens and law officers. Multiple times in multiple places, I might add. How can you not expect harsh repercussions for something like that? They're not gonna say, "Well since you're new around here, we'll just make you promise not to do it again."

[Gruff]

My little guy got arrested for petty theft (500 riln) then resisting arrest...I didn't even know I was being arrested before I tried to move...(5,000 riln). So now, because I was trying to figure out if it mattered if there was a visible NPC in the room, has now cost me 5,500 riln and all my possessions until I can pay it off. If there wasn't bag in the donation crate, I wouldn't have been able to even forage my way out of that. If I were a new player, forget it.

See what we mean now? "Minor" is what I was refering to...and my statement you quoted is in reference to what Kiyaani said.

[Lemuel]

My little guy got arrested for petty theft (500 riln) then resisting arrest...I didn't even know I was being arrested before I tried to move...(5,000 riln). So now, because I was trying to figure out if it mattered if there was a visible NPC in the room, has now cost me 5,500 riln and all my possessions until I can pay it off. If there wasn't bag in the donation crate, I wouldn't have been able to even forage my way out of that. If I were a new player, forget it.

See what we mean now? "Minor" is what I was refering to...and my statement you quoted is in reference to what Kiyaani said.

Yeah, that 5000 for resisting arrest...just trying to move by mistake...is too harsh. It would be appropriate if a blow was struck on the arresting officer, or if some smart move was made - like dropping a smoke bomb to escape. (In old times, just trying to walk away would not result in a monetary fine but a beating and it would not appear on the books anywhere.)

I would like to request that the fine for what is currently called 'resisting arrest' would be set to not exceed the amount of the original crime, in this case, an additional 500.

[Aerotine]

My little guy got arrested for petty theft (500 riln) then resisting arrest...I didn't even know I was being arrested before I tried to move...(5,000 riln). So now, because I was trying to figure out if it mattered if there was a visible NPC in the room, has now cost me 5,500 riln and all my possessions until I can pay it off. If there wasn't bag in the donation crate, I wouldn't have been able to even forage my way out of that. If I were a new player, forget it.

See what we mean now? "Minor" is what I was refering to...and my statement you quoted is in reference to what Kiyaani said.

Gah, I hate it when I pick up the iPad to check the boards and my brother didn't log out.

This isn't his idea, or his little guy, this is my little guy Grimly.

Yeah, that 5000 for resisting arrest...just trying to move by mistake...is too harsh. It would be appropriate if a blow was struck on the arresting officer, or if some smart move was made - like dropping a smoke bomb to escape. (In old times, just trying to walk away would not result in a monetary fine but a beating and it would not appear on the books anywhere.)

I would like to request that the fine for what is currently called 'resisting arrest' would be set to not exceed the amount of the original crime, in this case, an additional 500.

I could definitely agree with something along these lines. 5,500 for someone just into the game might as well be a mountain, and while you can climb a mount, if I wanted to do that I'd find a game called Mountain Quest.

At this point, I'd rather take a beating that didn't make it to the books...or even a lynching. Within the 35 skill zone you still get free healing and rez efferts are...more free healing.

[Nathaniel]

If it were something minor like petty theft or burglary, they'd just be arrested, fined, and sent on their way. The person in question violently assaulted citizens and law officers. Multiple times in multiple places, I might add. How can you not expect harsh repercussions for something like that? They're not gonna say, "Well since you're new around here, we'll just make you promise not to do it again."

Multiple people multiple times....Great. If you get attacked and you just type "battle" do you only attack the one who's attacking you or everyone in the room? Thanks for letting me know what he did. Now to teach him how to play nice with the text people. I took control of his guy once to try to get him out and all I saw was some fisherman start attacking him. Had his guy run for it. Would this count as attacking (even though attacked) and would fleeing from the fight with the fisherman count as evading arrest? I understand that whether on purpose or accident he probably attacked the fisherman first since when I went to that area the fisherman left my guy alone. Just trying to help him learn how to play and not lose interest. May just tell him to start again and be more careful this time. As for making changes, I don't know that any are needed. I'm betting most players are older and can figure most how to navigate all this on their own.

[Jirato]

Battle will only auto-engage hostile targets, if there is a non-hostile or friendly (yellow or green) target in the room, you'll need to explicitly target it or attack it first.

[Zoiya]

Everyone who plays this game has made a mistake at one point or another - doing something that they had not meant to do and it's had some amazing consequences.

Some people pretend it never happened (and I think the NPC's are highly amused at this), some people own up to their actions and RP their way out of their issue, and some people go away and don't come back.

It's never an easy situation and it can be incredibly frustrating ,but it can also be rewarding if you stick with your course and talk to the PC's and NPC's around you. You can start to build the character that you are through what happens after something like this. If you don't like the path that the roleplay takes you down, you can always start a new alt. Try something new.

Unfortunately we cannot just do away with any charges or issues that your character has, but we can make that mistake into an experience that will be interesting for your character and the player behind it. Just look for opportunities, you never know what might happen.

[Nathaniel]

Ok, in the end an assault charge (probably the original offense made by mistake), an assault on an officer of the law (probably when they tried to bring him down for the original assault), three resisting arrest (I told him to flee and not fight the cops and he tried to leave town a few times and died several times because he wouldn't fight back.. and would have lost anyway if he did fight back) and an indecent exposure charge because I dropped all his gear before surrendering (which took several tries before a guard let him surrender). Total charge for this one mess up....30060 riln. I'm suggesting to him he starts with a new character. I don't have that kind of bail money. I don't love my son that much...(just kidding).

[Aerotine]

One way or the other, resisting arrest needs to be a little harder to do right out of the gate. I wouldn't have bitched about the 500 riln fine. But when I was just going about my business and the screen scrolls after I've already input the command...that's a bit faulty and didn't give me the chance. I had no intention of resisting yet somehow I did it anyway, and to the tune of 5k.

Maybe something where when you try to move the first time that says "Do you understand that by completing this action you will be resisting arrest and subject to fine and incarceration?"

[Jaster]

Indecent exposure charge?! How did I not know about this...

You guys are lucky. In Shadgard, my rep is so low that the guards used to offer me surrender while trying to shoot me in the eye. It's hirrarious.

It probably has something to do with the 300+ petty theft charges they tried to stick me with. Preposterous. I still occasionally hurl feces at them for that one.

[Rias]

an assault on an officer of the law (probably when they tried to bring him down for the original assault)

Neutral NPCs don't attack you unless your rep is so low it makes you completely hostile to their entire faction (in which case they're not neutral anymore), or you attack them or someone of their same faction in the guard's presence. Ricky has attacked both Mistral and Shadgard guards directly and purposefully, according to the commands he input. The same goes for the fisherman Alerr - I don't see how there's anything accidental about the command "battle Alerr", especially after he had already used the same battle command on various other NPCs (infested carriers, squirrels, etc.) and knew exactly what the result of the command would be.

Another thing to know is that if you attack a neutral (or friendly) faction member and there are other members of the same faction in the same room, that will cause not just the target but all the NPCs of the same faction in that room to hate you.

Making a new character was probably the way to go at this point. But now he knows that it's not a good idea to randomly attack town NPCs and guards if you don't want to be treated like a violent criminal, right? I hope the player of Ricky still has interest in playing CLOK and staying a member of our community; I'm not trying to be cold and tyrannical or anything. The fact of the matter in this case, however, is that he clearly intended to attack these town NPCs, and I don't want to give anyone the impression that I give any leeway to people who get serious IC punishments for performing serious IC actions and then later think, "I didn't know it would be so serious", "it's just a game," or whatever. If it's something that would be serious in real life, it's probably gonna be serious in-game.

I'm looking for some middle ground regarding the resisting arrest thing. I don't intend to lower the fine, but I'm adjusting what causes the accusation for it. I can understand how you'd be zipping through town as normal and not see the "You're under arrest! etc." line until it was too late.

The surrender command was apparently expanded by another GM recently and became a little buggy (for instance, you have to just type it as one word for it to work right now, and can't speficify who you want to surrender to (which is unnecessary, but I see why people would think to do it)). I'm fixing that too.

Indecent exposure charge?! How did I not know about this...

What have you done?!

[Aerotine]

So I'm still in debt 5k to the bank? Can I make a plea bargain with the judge or something?! I'll do community service and probation!!!

[Nathaniel]

The same goes for the fisherman Alerr - I don't see how there's anything accidental about the command "battle Alerr", especially after he had already used the same battle command on various other NPCs (infested carriers, squirrels, etc.) and knew exactly what the result of the command would be.

Guess I'll just tell him what Dad used to tell me when I was his age, "way to go SuperStupid." :D Thanks for letting me know what happened. This is getting to be a painful teaching event, but if he learns how to operate this game and have fun then it's worth it. And yes, he still wants to play. He said he's going to read the wiki and try to come up with a good character concept. That's why I thought he would be good at MUDs. When playing pathfinder he wrote a who background for his character. Was rather creative. Who knows, after he learns the game and wants to try the criminal side (Jaster?) there may be a return of evil Ricky. Thanks again.

Oh and Jaster, you're welcome. Hope you enjoy the new criminal code to break.