Policy 5 - You can't even eat?!

[Lemuel]

Well, I found out the hard way that even eating while in another window is currently considered an AFK script violation.

I was in the infirmary with a few minutes of roundtime so I decided to go to the BBS to edit a file I put there (the timestamp of that edit is verifiable). While doing that, the healer started talking to me. A starvation message appeared on my screen, something like

Your body screams at you to find something to eat. If you don't find some sort of sustenance soon, you're going to collapse!

appeared on my screen, to which I had a trigger set up to eat some wheatcakes.

The policy states that it is allowable to send a command like 'info' every 5 minutes. I clearly understand that it breaks the policy to be farming or working on skills or earning money or the like improvements to self. But I would be remiss if I did not comment that penalizing someone for having a trigger that enables meeting the most basic of survival needs (as stated above) has to be the harshest and most un-generous interpretation of any policy in this MUD or probably of any MUD I have played. I would like to appeal that this policy be amended to allow eating when the character is on the point of collapse from starvation as I was.

[Avedri]

There are two things going on here:

1) Don't script if you're not watching your MUSHclient. That is a rule that has existed in most every MUD I've played and is pretty consistent with MMOs currently and how they review actions that don't require you to be at the screen. You should be actively in control of your character at all times and if you are automating movement or interactions in-game systems, pay attention.

2) The hunger, if you're on the verge of dying asking the healer to healall is an extremely bad idea. Because the healing process makes you tired and hungry. Ask to do one at a time and then eat something in between.

Additionally, if you're looking to appeal something you should probably contact the staff directly versus the forums as it's just going to generate posts like this one which are unsympathetic or the staff might confirm that this was in fact something they are going to uphold.

[Kiyaani]

It is not acceptable to AFK (away from keyboard) script any beneficial or disruptive action at all, anytime, ever.

I think that's pretty clear. As we told you in-game yesterday over OOC, Lemuel, you will not die while in roundtime at the healer. Nor will you die of starvation if you just sit there afk. Believe me. I've done it. You were not in peril and eating is very clearly a beneficial act. Acts of survival include fleeing, hiding, eating, defending etc. Any of those others would constitute the likelihood of farming or botting while afk which is unacceptable in every game I've ever known.

I won't hurt you to be vigilant and actually eat when you come back to the screen. And you shouldn't need such a trigger when in the wilderness since you would obviously be at your desk and actively playing, right?

[Jirato]

[quote=Kiyaani]It is not acceptable to AFK (away from keyboard) script any beneficial or disruptive action at all, anytime, ever.
[/quote]

Just to clarify, it's not acceptable to AFK script any action at all, ever. Regardless of whether or not it might be viewed as beneficial, disruptive, or completely superfluous. Someone could try to script their character saying something or emoting something, which wouldn't necessarily be beneficial or disruptive, but it is still an action.

Action being the key point. Information-only commands such as TIME, INFO, HEALTH, for the purpose of resetting the idle timer are the only exceptions.

[Lemuel]

[quote=Kiyaani]As we told you in-game yesterday over OOC, Lemuel, you will not die while in roundtime at the healer. Nor will you die of starvation if you just sit there afk. Believe me. I've done it. You were not in peril and eating is very clearly a beneficial act. Acts of survival include fleeing, hiding, eating, defending etc. Any of those others would constitute the likelihood of farming or botting while afk which is unacceptable in every game I've ever known.

I won't hurt you to be vigilant and actually eat when you come back to the screen. And you shouldn't need such a trigger when in the wilderness since you would obviously be at your desk and actively playing, right?[/quote]


Well, I was not aware of this fact, until yesterday when you told me. I never pushed my hunger that far while sitting, but I did once while walking. We all have to conclude that the pink message on my screen ('soon you're going to collapse!) is not 100% truthful. I take, then, that a character won't drop dead of hunger unless he moves while in this state, is that correct?

[Lemuel]

What if there's one command stuck in roundtime for several minutes, and a player goes to another window to search the BBS, will that one command in roundtime, when it comes due, be counted as AFK scripting?

[Zoiya]

I can't answer for other GM's, but when I check anyone for afk scripting I don't just do one check and automatically deem them AFK scripting. We do several things to get your attention and I always end that cycle with a tell. If I get no response then you are penalized.

We don't just pop in, test you in under a minute and then punish you.

[Rias]

You can die of starvation even while idle, if you wait long enough. The lesson here is: If you're in danger of dying, don't go AFK. I hope that isn't too unreasonable.

[hadesfire]

I never had a problem with this even when I had a script that allowed me to mass-produce about 100 arrows and arrowheads (each). I just had to be watchful of my screen so that I didn't end up missing the four or five messages they send. By the way, the healer did start talking to you, i'm sure he gave you ample time to do something.

[Emerson]

I guess I don't understand why it is an issue that someone has a trigger that causes them to eat something, particularly when it's allowed to have a script that keeps you from idling out? That's basically the same thing in my mind.

Consider this:

1 - It's not causing them any advantage in game.
2 - It's not causing them to gain skill.
3- It's not causing them to gain riln.
4 - It's not causing disruption to others in game. (Presumably)

The only way I can see this being an issue is if #4 was in some way untrue. If this was not the case then the scripting policy does indeed seem too strict in my opinion.

Edit: I will add that I've felt Lemuel's scripts to be pretty disruptive in the past, by spamming swap about a million times when his character entered the same room as Greer. So, I'm willing to bet this is why the GMs are cracking down on him in particular in this case.

[Lysse]

The issue is, I believe, Lemuel is taking actions without being at his character. If someone tries to interact with him because they see him eat something, and he blatantly ignores their interactions, it's an obvious case of scripting.

It differs from an idle script because an idle script only keeps a person online, and does not take any physical actions, and the policy is pretty clear in that idling is perfectly fine, but when an action is automated, a player has to be attentive to the screen.

[Rias]

It is not acceptable to AFK (away from keyboard) script any beneficial or disruptive action at all, anytime, ever.

Eating is a beneficial act. It prevents you from starving. Why is it we're wanting to be AFK so long that we're in danger of starving to death, again? The policy is simple and straightforward. If we start making exceptions for one thing, people are going to ask for more exceptions.

Again, for emphasis: If you're going to be AFK so long that you're in danger of starving to death, log out. I would personally like to prevent AFK idling at all (why do you think there's an idle timer that auto-boots people after ten minutes?) but there are various plugins that use periodic commands that reset the idle timer, so it really wouldn't be easily enforced.

Since Lemuel decided to take this public, I'll say that it wasn't just the eating that was scripted. He wasn't punished for simply eating some wheatcakes.

Like Lysse said, eating is an action that others can see. That compounds the issue, because the character is seen doing something and others can then presume they're active. To try and interact, only find out that the person is scripting the action AFK is disruptive. This may be an opinion, but it's dev's opinion, and that's what goes.

As the one who created this game from the start, I am strongly against going AFK for extended periods while in a multiplayer game designed specifically for player interaction. It is disruptive to see someone else there, only to have them be completely oblivious and unresponsive to the world around them. I have done, and will continue to do, things to mess with people who are idling AFK. It bothers me to see people log into a multiplayer roleplay-oriented game only to ignore it.

[Emerson]

Thanks for the clarification. I think that makes much more sense than what was originally presented.

[Lemuel]

Yes, with this clarification, even I can understand what the rationale is ... you do an 'eat' or other action, other players see that and think you're on keyboard. You do a 'who' and that is not seen by other players. Thank you. GMs, for taking the effort to explain...and my eat script is gone now.