CLOK BBS

This post is related to my post in this thread. If you have any questions about a character's roleplay, feel free to use this thread to ask and answer.

To be clear: I'm not asking people to lay bare their character's goals, spoil something about the game, or reveal what's going to happen -- part of why we play, after all, is to find out what happens -- but rather I'm suggesting that we offer transparency about our characters by giving other players a chance to know something about our characters' thought processes, or motivations and reasons behind an action or behavior. The hope is that this transparency and honesty will foster goodwill and trust in our collaborative storytelling effort and help us all be more conscientious roleplayers.

Part of being a conscientious roleplayer and acting in good faith, I might add, is not acting on or using any of the information you learn in this thread in-character. If you do, expect to be called out for doing it.

Here are some examples of questions you might ask:

• "Why Vaylon kill that helpless little bunny the other day?"
• "What was Vaylon's motivation for wearing those purple stockings on his head?"
• "Why does Vaylon spend so much time hanging out with prostitutes?"

Since I suggested this, feel free to ask me about Vaylon.

So much respect for you, Vaylon. :) Seriously -- this is a great idea, and exactly what I think we need.
So I'm more than happy to answer any questions about Vidor that I can with two exceptions: I will not divulge information about the Tse Gaiyan or other TG players, and I will not share anything that could give problems for plot as innacted by GM or other characters. If it's a question about Vidor (why does he get so angry at times, why has he started farming, etc) I'd be more than happy to answer them. But I'm not going to wreck someone else's experience, plans, or characters. It's their story to tell.

I remember a while back when talking about a character/etc was a thing. We even had a really neat thing that Elystole was doing. As a player, it helped me get into the game and caused me to understand some things better. All he was doing was talking about general, every day things, that were related to his character. He redacted information for IC reasons, and still, people accused him of bringing IC ooc. I hope that in this case, it works out better. Good luck.

Actually, on reading it, I see why it was stopped, however, it is still a read worth looking at, imho. Either way, the people that would use that knowledge will use this knowledge, too, so, we'll see what happens!

yes, I am skeptical. :)

Same applies for me as with others. Feel free to ask anything you would like about my characters.

Now, there are two things I would like to mention:

First, I am playing again. Maybe not as fervently as in the past, but I am trying to put forward an effort to play somewhat regularly. I'm just playing as a character that is not associated with me by anyone except one or two people who I have told. I do have a character or two I like to keep "in the shadows" because, unfortunately, sometimes I need the unbiased treatment new players get, because eventually OOC behavior will start to affect my enjoyment of the game. That being said, I'm usually probably not all that difficult to spot if you really look for me.

Secondly, I need some assistance if people want to Fayne return again anytime soon, if ever. Remember when I mentioned OOC things affecting my enjoyment of the game? Well, I let it get past that twice with Fayne, to the point that it actually did affect my RP negatively, which ultimately led to a quick downward spiral that ended in my hiatus.
Anyway, my problem now is I'm uncertain what to do with her, as all of her goals have pretty much gone up in smoke permanently. I blame myself for letting OOC factors affect my RP, which forced me into positions and decisions I was not nearly prepared to make at the time. So, I need help with ideas, suggestions, and if you feel like Fayne should simply disappear, feel free to say to.

Also, one last thing before I go: if you do figure out any of my lesser-known characters, feel free to mention them by name on here if you have questions about them. I'm not trying to hide anything from anyone, and everyone will find out eventually anyway, so I'm not worried about it.

Fayne wrote:Same applies for me as with others. Feel free to ask anything you would like about my characters.

Now, there are two things I would like to mention:

First, I am playing again. Maybe not as fervently as in the past, but I am trying to put forward an effort to play somewhat regularly. I'm just playing as a character that is not associated with me by anyone except one or two people who I have told. I do have a character or two I like to keep "in the shadows" because, unfortunately, sometimes I need the unbiased treatment new players get, because eventually OOC behavior will start to affect my enjoyment of the game. That being said, I'm usually probably not all that difficult to spot if you really look for me.

Secondly, I need some assistance if people want to Fayne return again anytime soon, if ever. Remember when I mentioned OOC things affecting my enjoyment of the game? Well, I let it get past that twice with Fayne, to the point that it actually did affect my RP negatively, which ultimately led to a quick downward spiral that ended in my hiatus.
Anyway, my problem now is I'm uncertain what to do with her, as all of her goals have pretty much gone up in smoke permanently. I blame myself for letting OOC factors affect my RP, which forced me into positions and decisions I was not nearly prepared to make at the time. So, I need help with ideas, suggestions, and if you feel like Fayne should simply disappear, feel free to say to.

Also, one last thing before I go: if you do figure out any of my lesser-known characters, feel free to mention them by name on here if you have questions about them. I'm not trying to hide anything from anyone, and everyone will find out eventually anyway, so I'm not worried about it.

I'd have to know a bit more about The characters goals and motivations, but if be happy to do everything I can to help- even if it just ends up being that Fayne has to get shelved. Send me a PM about it if you like.

Well, here's the basic run-down:

When I first created Fayne, I intended for her to be a minor antagonist, with the possibility of being a major antagonist, though in all likelihood she would have been a major antagonist from the moment here plans came to fruition. My long-since-abandoned character creation concept was that Fayne was to have believed she had been chosen by one of her gods to help lead the Resen to spread across all of Arad. The hope was to have the infested become non-hostile towards her, and have her play a role in whatever big GM infested invasions they wanted her involved in. I pursued this idea for a few months, and joining the Udemi was actually a step toward achieving this goal by getting her into more regular contact with the infested, as well as getting her information on the people who would be her biggest enemies once she had achieved her goal.

Well, as things tend to happen, this goal eventually waned away, through my own impatience at not seeing progress, and through interaction with people she came to consider friends, plus the Tse Gaiyan guilds have a way of making the Resen look even worse than they already do on the outside.

So then a new goal arose: Fayne had never quite fit in among the Tse Gaiyan, but she still had some fairly important friends, and eventually she actually became a fairly decent Udemi who at least a few looked up to, and others saw potential in. This made her feel proud of herself, and she wanted to live up to these people and show everyone who thought worse of her that they were wrong. She wanted to become an important member of Tse Gaiyan, perhaps become someone people looked to for leadership.

Unfortunately, this was also during a time where she was heavily restricted in what she could do. She could still use guild facilities, but she couldn't do tasks, could hardly buy anything at the Chapterhouse, and couldn't learn new abilities, since this was before generalization. OOC this was wearing down on me and making things less fun to play, as evidenced by my increased traffic on alts around this time. I started to try to come up with a new goal for her to keep my experience playing her fun. I toyed heavily with the idea of making her more focused on druidry, as it was a fairly important part of her character. And this made sense at first, but I never felt like it was a good enough fit for her, and there were several instances where I could have simply said the word and I would have been free from Tse Gaiyan to pursue druidry, but I never felt it was right, and I didn't leave.

Then she got off probation and was able to do tasks and learn abilities and everything again. I was seriously excited OOC that day, one of the best days I've ever had on CLOK. But of course I had expressed my doubts IC already as to whether Tse Gaiyan was right for Fayne, and I'm not the kind of person to just pull a mental 180 with my characters, so I decided to just let her doubts ease up slowly over the course of two or three weeks as she settled back into being a fill Udemi again.

However, I managed to word something in a conversation a little more commited than I intended, and I made it sound Fayne for sure wanted to leave Tse Gaiyan, or placed druidry more importantly. A tricky situation, but still workable if it was just a misunderstanding said to another player. Unfortunately, it involved a GM-controlled NPC and two other characters, and I was absolutely not prepared for such a situation. When it came down to it, my choices were to support good RP behavior and play it out like my character would, or completely give up on that and have Fayne's entire mindset change to what I wanted it to be right then and there. I chose the RP, and she ended up having to leave Tse Gaiyan. I tried everyghing I could to come up with some excuse for her to stay in so I could still save her, but ultimately I failed. And that is a major reason I wasn't playinv Fayne nearly as much up to the point of my hiatus, when I just couldn't do it anymore, and losing a character that you've invested over half a year in like that is definitely enough to make something not fun for a while.

Anyway, sorry for the super long post, but that's Fayne's history in its briefest form. I don't see a way forward, as she lost the respect of a lot people when she left Tse Gaiyan, and there is no possibility of getting her either back into that guild or into a different one, so her goals of being a respected member and/or leader of anything is pretty much null.

The only possibility I see is shelving her, but maybe someone else has a better idea than what I can come up with.

You could pursue that resen route again... perhaps an infested elite anti-udemi counterforce is under development... Of course, probably not. Get in good with them. Become a symbiote. Changing guilds IS possible. Two have done it including myself (Acarin). It's just very very very very very unlikely. Also, you should consider that, with generalization, you can play a very viable character without having a guild and this will be especially true for you once herbalism skills are rolled out!

Also, if anyone has any questions about Acarin or Zuki, feel free to ask. I can't guarantee I can answer without sharing IC secrets, but I'll give it my best.

Acarin wrote:You could pursue that resen route again... perhaps an infested elite anti-udemi counterforce is under development... Of course, probably not. Get in good with them. Become a symbiote. Changing guilds IS possible. Two have done it including myself (Acarin). It's just very very very very very unlikely. Also, you should consider that, with generalization, you can play a very viable character without having a guild and this will be especially true for you once herbalism skills are rolled out!

Also, if anyone has any questions about Acarin or Zuki, feel free to ask. I can't guarantee I can answer without sharing IC secrets, but I'll give it my best.

I personally agree with Zuki here. So Faynes mindset was changed by being an udemi, to become less "for" per say the resen. Well who says the shock of leaving doesn't drive her back to
The resen? Maybe she becomes distinctly convinced that being among the tse Gaian so long poisoned her mind and she begins preaching against its "Mind Control". As for a god choosing her to help lead the resen... Who better? Most infested leader npcs that we've seen have been infested Druids-possibly even former Udemi. Which means that the infestation is at least predispositioned to like that sort of character in a leadership position. This could be the perfect time to catapult Fayne back into her original character purpose.

Perhaps it is something to consider, but I had pretty much abandoned that route. And I think if it were still a possibility in my mind, mentioning it here would be the best way to kill it. The best way to play these things out is through secrecy, and even if I hinted at maybe wanting to pursue this path again, that would arouse OOC suspicion toward my character that could potentially bleed into RP without anyone realizing they were doing it.

If this ever becomes a possibility again, I certainly won't be mentioning it here, and likely it will have to be with a different character. I suppose anything is possible though.

I do have to say, there is potential for some interesting RP if I choose to throw Fayne into denial. I mean, clearly she doesn't handle stressful situations well (we all remember the incident at Lucille's) so perhaps there are a few options. I don't think an antagonistic role is one that will bring Fayne back completely though, because I'm just not cut out for that kind of RP. I have tried it, and being pretty much you against the world is tough to handle all the time.

Happened with Acarin in his monk to XXXX transition. I'd say such things can be a viable route. As far as OOC suspicion, no one thinks it will work for you *wink wink*

By the way, there are certainly major cities that are safe havens for even the infested. It's never you against the world unless you burn EVERY bridge. I'm just saying, there are always options if you commit to them.

Vaylon wrote:This post is related to my post in this thread.

Here are some examples of questions you might ask:

• "Why Vaylon kill that helpless little bunny the other day?"
• "What was Vaylon's motivation for wearing those purple stockings on his head?"
• "Why does Vaylon spend so much time hanging out with prostitutes?"

Since I suggested this, feel free to ask me about Vaylon.

Very well, filth. I'll ask some questions. Let it not be said I wont face my accusers in public. Forgive me if I'm not as huggable and cheery as the rest of the players here. I've known you for far to long to mince words.

What's your motivation for shooting Konrad from stealth outside of Haiban, while he was defending himself from being attacked? I had been enjoying the game myself, until you had broken our unspoken agreement to leave each other the [frak] alone. I mean, sure, OOC I bet you loved the thought of being able to kill me with that over powered crossbow of yours, but, for the sake of the game, lets just say I already know your gonna say some bullshit like 'I was defending a friend'. I'm just reminding you that that was the particular pebble that started this landslide.

And yes, I did call out a GM for favoritism. Jirato and I may disagree, but, personally, if a GM plays a character, and that character is body guarding another character, well, forgive me if I see that as favoritism. In my head, when you put on the GM pants, you agree to remain neutral in petty spats, so these very accusations cannot be made. When I have multiple characters telling me that an attack against you is not possible because of said body guard and that body guard is played by a GM..my WTF meter goes off the charts. I know characters that are played by GM that don't go wandering around playing bodyguards or protecting people, they remain neutral. A GM who remains neutral during player conflicts to ensure no one can accuse them of favoritism right? What a concept!

How do you live with yourself with the horribly annoying..what are they. Puns? Just bad jokes? There are thousands of other MUD's that pander to your particular brand of RP. Part of the reason I've been enjoying CLOK is because I can wander around without having groan educing sexuality thrown in my face. Of course, I suspected you would bring your particular brand of RP into CLOK, because, well, you cant help who you are, right? And I cant help feeling annoyed every time I have to see another groan educing ESP.

You've been so vocal about how only GM characters should play evil. And yet, when I brought my particular brand of evil RP to CLOK, I received plenty of tells thanking me for shaking up the dullness that they felt CLOK had been experiencing. How they hated how everyone was so 'friendly' and 'nice' to each other, and how no real conflict of any kind was going around. How they were thankful someone was trying to finally stir the pot. You yourself mentioned how your own decisions based on a conflict were laughed at. Why? Exactly because everyone is too fucking friendly. We are not telling a story here, we are living a shared experience. Not everyone will get to have their story told. This is not a tabletop game, where you have 5 players to make feel important, with a somewhat unified goal. This is dozens of players, even more characters, all with different hopes, dreams. Some would play evil characters simply to spite all the huggableness that seems to be going around, which you yourself are a proponent is causing in your own way. How do you justify this mindset that the game would be a better place if we all worked together with common hopes and dreams with only the GM's to work against everyone? I don't know what kind of goals you want, but, it's certainly not one of mine.


Your probabbly wondering why Konrad is such an angry guy, and is so adamant about making sure you die. Yes, you, Vaylon, that fucking locksmith. Hell, I'll give you IC and OOC reasons why.

IC? You shot him with a damn crossbow bolt. Twice. Konrad serves a God of Vengeance. Not a God of Forgiveness. Not a God of "Welp, I'll take that on the chin as a loss". Konrad finds Vaylon's general attitude to be a symptom of the disease that infests the lands...the disease of indifference. he sits in a tavern, hitting on whatever woman is paying attention to him, when the land is shrouded in death and fear that should be motivating them to take action.

OOC? Because we clearly dont get along. My OOC feelings for how much I dislike you, passionately, helps motivate me to accomplish the simple goal Konrad has set out.

What is Konrad goal? He is going to kill Vaylon. Twice. Once for each of those lucky overpowered crossbow bolts. I dont really care what it takes, but, Konrad will have his Vengeance. If I have to grind hundreds of thousands of Riln to see it done, well, I guess that's whats going to happen. If I have to Grind my skills, alone, for months, just to see it done, thats what will happen. If I have to find a way into Shadgard myself and rip you from the Hearth and Home, I guess I'll be making time for that as well. If he dies to Vaylon while the locksmith is defending himself, well, I guess the tally will just keep going. And when that's finished? I'm going to go on about my merry way. IC? It'll serve as a good lesson in generally leaving Harbringers the alone. OOC? It's because I despise you, of course.

I hope your able to answer these questions, though, in truth I really dont care what your answers are. I simply want you to know that I am pretty much against everything you stand for, IG, and OOC. I do hope to see Vaylon IC. The sooner Konrad claims his Vengeance, the sooner I can go back to enjoying CLOK again, and I wont have to worry about interacting you. :)

Konrad wrote: And yes, I did call out a GM for favoritism. Jirato and I may disagree, but, personally, if a GM plays a character, and that character is body guarding another character, well, forgive me if I see that as favoritism. In my head, when you put on the GM pants, you agree to remain neutral in petty spats, so these very accusations cannot be made. When I have multiple characters telling me that an attack against you is not possible because of said body guard and that body guard is played by a GM..my WTF meter goes off the charts. I know characters that are played by GM that don't go wandering around playing bodyguards or protecting people, they remain neutral. A GM who remains neutral during player conflicts to ensure no one can accuse them of favoritism right? What a concept!

So, basically I can work my fingers to the bone to bring things to clok, but I can't enjoy playing it? Noted. This will heavily influence my decision on if I even want to be a part of this project anymore.

First off. I, nor any other gm's who work on this project, have any other advantages or disadvantages than any of the players have. We worked just as hard as anyone else who plays this game to get our characters to where they are and we are certainly just as killable as anyone else.

Secondly, I'm not always around. Why? I'm usually building, coding or running events. Like above, I am starting to question why I do this, especially when I can't even enjoy the game I'm trying to make better.

Lastly, I spent a lot of time trying to make sure you were comfortable and had everything you needed to do what is a super hard thing in this mud, play an evil character. If there was any special attention paid to anyone, it was you, and right now I'm horribly sorry that I spent my time and energy doing that.

I guess not being able to play this game is a high price that you have to pay to GM for it.

Yeah, I have to agree, favoritism can only really take place if a GM is helping another player in their GM form, and even then it'd have to excessive help or game-breaking help. Most GMs' characters were around before they even became GMs, if not all of them. They've had a really long time to build up their characters, so they are easily untouchable by most other players because 1) they are not around as often in order to cause serious grudges with veteran characters, and 2) the vast majority of our player base is either new or only grinds until they reach a point af which they are content, and then stop.

I don't want to see Zoiya leave again, she's one of my favorite GMs, and we've had a lot of good interactions both through her character and her GM form, and even some limited OOC interaction. She's one of the most talented and creative GMs when it comes to making things, and even though we don't always see eye-to-eye or clash, she does her very best to remain polite and constructive as long as she is afforded the same respect.

I've got to agree with Fayne on this one. GM PCs are free to do whatever they want. They shouldn't be subject to extra cries of "Foul, foul! I'm going to make baseless accusations just because I know the player is also a GM."

On the topic of evil characters and special permission, it's responses like Konrad's that make me feel this is more appropriate, because evil characters must have a clear detachment from their character IC and OOC, due to the fact that they're so conflict centric. Yes, evil PCs will stir up drama, and if they end up targetted, or on the 'losing' side, then they need to step back and re-evaluate their own strength and options. It doesn't mean they have to stop being evil, it means they need to have the presence of mine to not take their misgivings to the forums in a vitriolic rage. Possible options are getting better than others at those skills, allying with other evil characters through any number of means. Grudges aren't a terrible thing IC, but it seems pretty clear this grudge has transcended IC levels which emphasizes that evil characters ought to be played by 'trusted' players.

Zoiya's contributions to the game are fantastic and innumerable. Hosting events, animating NPCs, building areas, and all this at a level and quality which is held to a perfectionist's degree. Now, if you have any reason to believe that GM favortism occured, state your reasons for this, and let another non-involved, neutral GM evaluate the situation. If you can't trust the GM team to do GM things, you're either 1) going to wear down the GMs to the point where they don't wish to support a fantastic game like Clok, or 2) going to make the situation as inflamatory as possible, dragging the whole Clok community into it, as this post has. So, if you can't trust the GMs to do GM things, I'm afraid you've probably answered the question as to if you should truly be playing an antagonistic character, or if you actually enjoy playing Clok. I have little to no interaction with either Konrad, or Zoiya's character(s)? so I think my response is fairly neutral.

Personally, I don't care much for sexual comments or innuendo, most of the time, but I won't slander others for it, even if I eyeroll and make off the cuff comments about it. That's part of his character, and while I don't always care about it, it's not something I feel the need to condemn either, you know?

In short, I'm sorry you're having such an unfun time with your evil character, but that creates no ground for OOC attacks on the quality of other players character, or upon the character of GMs. Please try to look for constructive ways to pursue things moving forward instead of such responses and name calling as have been offered thus far.

Zoiya wrote:

Konrad wrote: And yes, I did call out a GM for favoritism. Jirato and I may disagree, but, personally, if a GM plays a character, and that character is body guarding another character, well, forgive me if I see that as favoritism. In my head, when you put on the GM pants, you agree to remain neutral in petty spats, so these very accusations cannot be made. When I have multiple characters telling me that an attack against you is not possible because of said body guard and that body guard is played by a GM..my WTF meter goes off the charts. I know characters that are played by GM that don't go wandering around playing bodyguards or protecting people, they remain neutral. A GM who remains neutral during player conflicts to ensure no one can accuse them of favoritism right? What a concept!

So, basically I can work my fingers to the bone to bring things to clok, but I can't enjoy playing it? Noted. This will heavily influence my decision on if I even want to be a part of this project anymore.

First off. I, nor any other gm's who work on this project, have any other advantages or disadvantages than any of the players have. We worked just as hard as anyone else who plays this game to get our characters to where they are and we are certainly just as killable as anyone else.

Secondly, I'm not always around. Why? I'm usually building, coding or running events. Like above, I am starting to question why I do this, especially when I can't even enjoy the game I'm trying to make better.

Lastly, I spent a lot of time trying to make sure you were comfortable and had everything you needed to do what is a super hard thing in this mud, play an evil character. If there was any special attention paid to anyone, it was you, and right now I'm horribly sorry that I spent my time and energy doing that.

I guess not being able to play this game is a high price that you have to pay to GM for it.

And as I've said, there are plenty of other GM's who take the time to play the game, enjoy the game, and yet from what I have seen, I cant think of one reason that anyone could accuse them of favoritism. You've been here for 5 years, I'm sure you've done alot for the community. Being a GM is not all sunshine and rainbows, an yes, it does come with responsibilities. I don't know your reasons for becoming a GM, but, I'm sure part of the job description came with a simple "Dont show favoritism" clause. This debate is irrelevant anyway, because the DEV has already decided he sees no problem in GM's playing their characters however they desire.

As far as showing Favoritism to me, I would pose the simple question as to..how? Anything that has happened to my character has simply been me along for the ride the GM's have chosen. I came into the game 3 months ago, and just RP'd like anyone else, and went with the flow. I did not go out and bug the GM's to do anything for me, coming into the game, or now. Cheering up a person, as I've said, is just being a decent human being. If you regret doing that, well, I cant help you. I hope you continue doing such things with other players since, well, I would consider THAT to be part of a GM's job. Helping their players out, and making the experience enjoyable.

sona wrote:I've got to agree with Fayne on this one. GM PCs are free to do whatever they want.

Sure they are. Because that is what the DEV has determined to be fair. It does not make it right in my book. I'd rather a GM stay totally out of a conflict, or punish both parties, then picking a side.

As far as 'trusted' characters playing evil, well, what nonsense is this? If my RP is enough to get into Corvus, then, I'm sure my RP is evil enough to be accepted as good enough to RP with the rest of the player base. You admit that my IC goals and the actions that I'm taking are valid ways to solve the IC issue, but "Oh no he's letting his OOC feelings get in the way, he's going to far now!" Sorry, my OOC feelings are the cherry on the icing of this conflict. They provide good motivation for me to ensure that I accomplish the goals I've set out.

sona wrote:Personally, I don't care much for sexual comments or innuendo, most of the time, but I won't slander others for it, even if I eyeroll and make off the cuff comments about it. That's part of his character, and while I don't always care about it, it's not something I feel the need to condemn either, you know?

I've dealt with this sort of thing for FAR to many years from this particular player. Sorry if I've run out of "Oh, well, that's just Vaylon being Vaylon". It's annoying, there are thousands of MUD's that pander to that sort of crowd, and if you dont feel like speaking up and saying "Hey, you know what, I'm tired of seeing this [crap]" Then, well, That's your choice. If I have to see it, again and again, from the same player, I'm gonna express my feeling that I find such juvenile displays annoying.


In short, I see what will probably happen here is Myself getting banned for expressing my opinion, or making the game 'unfun' for maybe 1 or two players, or upsetting a GM because she believes I'm accusing her of not working hard as a GM. You could work your fingers to the bone, but, if you play a character, regardless of if you had it since before you were a GM, I'm going to consider it unfair. Why? Not because of any mechanical advantage, although there obviously is one, but, because your a GM, and should not even be involved in such disputes IC. I dont see Vinz or Nocturne hopping on their characters protecting Konrad when/if he needs it, nor would I expect them too. I dont know if other folks are perhaps blinded by the fact that Zoiya is a GM and no one wants to speak the hell up and say "Hey, that's wrong", or maybe they really dont see a problem with a GM playing a character who is BODYGUARDING ANOTHER CHARACTER to be anything suspicious. Truthfully, I'm flabbergasted. To me the unfairness of the situation is pretty black and white. However, the DEV seems fine with that situation, so, it's not like it's a matter of putting it to a vote anyway, and since a GM has basically threatened to quit because I'm accusing her of favoritism and ruining her 'fun', well, I think we all know how this situation will turn out.

Well... It seems that this is some of that antagonism between players I'd heard about. Having never seen it personally most of the previous posts had flabbergasted me. Konrad my man, if you are playing an antagonistic character and you can't leave on good terms OOCly with another player ICly, I personally feel that something needs to be looked at there. That's just my opinion, but I don't like the idea of being influenced OOCly so heavily like that.

Vaylons differening brand of RP, I'm really sorry you can't stand it. I think it's a good addition to the mud, because it's mostly different than what everyone else does, which makes things more interesting overall. A guy shouldn't be afraid to make any sort of character as long as it's not unrealist for the world, and I don't see Vaylons character as all that unrealistic. His lazing around is a great source of conflict for people who feel, in character, that any fighter worth his salt should be fighting which he means he can try to be convinced of this very thing, in character. Yay conflict... Is what I usually say here, but it seems that conflict may not be the best possible source of action here.

As for about the favoratism accusations... From what I can see, you are basing this on that a GM's PC was guarding a character you were fighting? What if you hadn't know the PC was GM controlled? Would you have accused that player of liking the player they were defending better than you or would you have just assumed that they were more friendly, or allied due to their beliefs, in character? A GM is just a PC when they are playing them and I really dislike the insinuation that they don't have the freedom to play their own characters like anyone else does, which is OOCly limiting the IC options of their characters. Now If a GM was shamelessly using GM knowledge to increase their characters abilities or knowledge, sure give a smack, but even if a GM was controlling a massive npc that decided to guard a PC from another PC, as long as there was a perfectly reasonable in character reason for that, I don't see a problem.

Back to Vaylons original post however, about character transparency, I'm gonna wish yall good luck but I don't think I will be joining in on that personally. Not because it's neccesarily bad to trust other pcs with that kind of info, but because I personally enjoy more mystery. I hope it begins to let everyone settle things down.

let's be honest here, you're pissed because something didn't go your way, that's really what this comes down too.
now you expect to be banned because you expressed an opinion. I don't know if anyone is thinking in that direction or not, but as someone who has disagreed with most of the GM team at one point or another, both publicly and privately, as someone who has actually in moments of thoughtlessness, or irritation even said some things that really hurt them, I can say if you get banned, it won't be because you expressed an opinion they didn't like, it will be because you're being an entitled ass.

you honestly sound like an eight year old having a tantrum, "the crossbow is OP" "the GMs cheat because they like someone better than me"

here it is, I'm going to spell it out, you're playing a game with lots of other people, you're going to have to play with a few you don't like, we all have too, The people who create a game have every right and expectation to play said game, and sometimes that means they are going to be involved in things that happen, people are going to do things you don't like, and you're either going to live with that, or you're not, but if not, you're going to find the number of games you can play, or even people who want to talk to you will start shrinking really really quickly.

Zoyia is the best ally an evil character in this game can have, she will bend over backwards to help you behind the scenes to make sure you have everything you need to be what ever kind of villain you want to be, and she doesn't even have to like you personally to do that for you. she does it because she loves this game, everyone who works on it does, and you're shitting on them, because a character they are playing happened to act in a way consistent with that character? You accuse her of favoritism because not everything she did was for you, and justify it by saying you didn't ask her to do those things.
I don't blame her one bit for considering quitting again, if all her hard work is going to be met with responses like that. If i were her, I'd have quit a long time ago and told us all to take a leap.

Maybe banning is the answer? because if I had to have the choice between entitled asses and GMs who actually want to come work and play with us, I Don't even have to think about which I'd take.

Konrad wrote: In short, I see what will probably happen here is Myself getting banned for expressing my opinion, or making the game 'unfun' for maybe 1 or two players, or upsetting a GM because she believes I'm accusing her of not working hard as a GM. You could work your fingers to the bone, but, if you play a character, regardless of if you had it since before you were a GM, I'm going to consider it unfair. Why? Not because of any mechanical advantage, although there obviously is one, but, because your a GM, and should not even be involved in such disputes IC. I dont see Vinz or Nocturne hopping on their characters protecting Konrad when/if he needs it, nor would I expect them too.

There may be some confusion here as to the relation between a GM entity and his/her personal character. As GMs we strive VERY hard to keep our admin self separated from our character. Did you know there are many rules in place to keep them as such? We can't for example, "edit our own characters clothing/gear/etc in ANY way without involving another GM to do it", just like any other player would request a merchant, so do we! Nor are we allowed to edit our characters skills, EVER. We must earn our skills and abilities just like any other character. We don't get an major perks above and beyond what others might be able to get AND some of our characters are NOT even that powerful. We just play them to be an average Joe RP'er just like everybody else.

This brings up another point, please don't assume you know which characters also have a GM account, I doubt you would be able to figure out exactly who I play and when. I don't always fit the form of my GM persona when I play and just because a player is old or powerful, doesn't mean that character also has a GM account. We have many old players that fit that description and many of them are NOT GMs.

However, some of us on the staff are very transparent about our personal characters and this should be taken as a HUGE vote of confidence on their part that the community will be mature enough to handle it. By exposing themselves as also being a GM they are saying that they trust you enough to treat them just like everyone else and allow them to RP and play their characters just as you would. They don't expect any special treatment and really should be treated equally as you would any other character. Please don't use your OOC knowledge about them and treat them differently.

Konrad and perhaps a few others of you seem to feel that a GM's personal 'character' should act differently than any other character? Why is this? Let's take a regular pen and paper RPG group as an example. Let's say you had a dungeon master named 'Bob' who DM'd for a group of friends. One day Bob decided that he needs a break from DMing and called on his friend 'Steve' to DM for him. Steve has played a character within the group for a long time and Bob feels he can handle it. So now Bob is playing a normal character and Steve is DMing.

Should Bob now act differently while playing? Sure he has more personal knowledge of the mechanics and it's world but Bob is mature enough to keep that OOC knowledge separate from his character. His may even choose to take sides with or against the other characters in his group but he will never go beyond the scope of what his character can do, or should know. Does this mean that Steve while in the middle of DMing could now suddenly stop DMing and decide to play his character to uphold his character interests? No, of course not. A DM will carefully transition from DMing and playing his character in the group. He will often do so in between games or during a large break to make sure that he can keep the two entities always separate. We hold GMs to the same standards here.

All of the rules that apply to any character also apply to a GM's personal character. We will never use OOC knowledge to guide our characters and if you see a suspected GM's character doing as such, please send an e-mail to Jirato to inform him.

Sorry for derailing the subject but I felt the need to nip this in the bud while it was being discussed. I like the idea of being able to discuss a 'few' of our characters thoughts and motives OOC'ly, so please continue.

So, since I ranted in the thread, it's only fair that I also take part. So I hesitantly offer to answer questions about Maric, or my two sort of retired alts Granny Sarint and Viridiana. I do reserve the right not to answer a question though.

merin: I guess you could say it's an experiment, and who knows if it'll work?

vidor: I'm pleased you're so enthusiastic! When Vaylon first met Vidor, he seemed really easygoing and concerned mainly with woodworking, but then, at some point, he suddenly (or so it seemed to Vaylon) became concerned with developing his skills as a soldier in the fight against the resen. Is this perception correct? If so, what was the impetus for Vidor's seemingly sudden shift in focus?

Konrad wrote:What's your motivation for shooting Konrad from stealth outside of Haiban, while he was defending himself from being attacked?

It's actually a rather complex situation and not at all as simple as you would like it to seem, but here's how it happened, and there are logs backing up everything I'm saying (I am actually looking at the logs as I type all this):

Konrad announced on the pendant that he would be giving a sermon on the great spider in Haiban, and, on a whim, Vaylon went to go hear him preach. Vaylon brought his friend and bodyguard with him, too, just in case. Zoiya's character, whom I'll call "A", had already been working for a few weeks as Vaylon's bodyguard.

("A" was working for Vaylon because of an incident with him being killed in Haiban. After Vaylon announced on the pendant that he was looking for a bodyguard, "A" had approached him, demonstrated her fighting abilities, and offered to work as his bodyguard. Vaylon paid her a quite frankly sickening amount of riln to guard him.)

While Konrad was preaching, a few people expressed skepticism, and Vaylon cracked a few jokes because he's the type of guy to bring levity to a funeral. Konrad, in order to put Vaylon in his place, tried to use some magic on Vaylon, after having already used it on someone else, but Vaylon shook it off. "A" saw Konrad's attempt to use magic on Vaylon, and she started approaching Konrad, so Vaylon quickly led "A" away because he assumed she was going to punch Konrad, and Vaylon would rather not start another fight in Haiban.

After he led her away, "A" walked off without a word to Vaylon, and after some searching, he finally found her waiting outside of Haiban. "A" told him to go away, and Vaylon said, "I shook off his magics. They're just parlor tricks." But "A" insisted that Konrad needed a lesson.

Vaylon tried to get "A" to come back with him to the tavern, but she refused to leave, so he decided to hide nearby because he didn't want her to get hurt (which is dumb of him since "A" can easily take care of herself). Vaylon didn't want to start any fights with anyone -- he wanted "A" to leave it alone.

When Konrad came out, "A" pulled him off his horse and warned him not to do what he did earlier again, and she asked him if he understood. Konrad said, "No, I do not," and pulled out a scythe. "A" kicked Konrad in the balls. Vaylon didn't want Konrad to hurt "A", and he started to panic, so he shot a crossbow bolt at Konrad.

(By the way, Vaylon had the crossbow because he and "A" were planning to go hunting in Tarueka when suddenly Konrad was on the pendant saying that he would be giving a sermon in Haiban. The fact that he had the crossbow with him is mere coincidence; if Vaylon had planned on shooting Konrad, he would have brought a firearm, which he is significantly more skilled with, instead of the crossbow.)

The first shot missed, and Vaylon reloaded while Konrad tried some more to hit "A". "A" tripped Konrad and then drew her weapons, but it was too late because by then Vaylon fired a second bolt which hit Konrad in the chest, killing him instantly. "A" was upset at Vaylon for doing what he did (mainly because it was a dumb thing to do since she could easily protect herself), but Vaylon wanted to try to protect "A" from this obviously crazy guy because even if he is lazy and even if he is paying her, Vaylon isn't entirely comfortable with the idea of sitting idly by while his friend "A" endangers herself.

A bit of a long story, but I felt it important to recount the accurate version.

To sum up the answer to your question about Vaylon's motivations: Vaylon shot Konrad because Vaylon is a dumb guy who is quick to panic and didn't want to let "A" get hurt -- even though she was more than capable of taking care of herself -- because "A" is his friend and because he felt partly responsible for "A" being in that situation in the first place.

Were there nonviolent ways that Vaylon could have used to resolve the situation? Absolutely. But after living in Shadgard for a few months and being exposed to the rampant violence in the Lost Lands, he has, whether for good or ill, begun to internalize the "shoot first and ask questions later" mentality of some of its denizens. And honestly, if people knew how surprisingly quick to panic Vaylon is in high-pressure situations, nobody sane would allow him anywhere near a dangerous weapon.

Do I think "A" acted in-character? Absolutely. But don't take my word for it -- ask Zoiya about her character's motivations.

And as for "those lucky overpowered crossbow bolts," I have just one thing to say to that:

Konrad confirms an order with an assistant and hands over some riln.
Konrad receives a hefty black crossbow.
You glance at Konrad.
Konrad slings a hefty black crossbow over his shoulder.
You lean toward [character] and whisper, "That guy must carry around a lot of riln."

In this thread we have multiple players, all playing for a long time (I'm almost at eight months) who love how things are run, and one guy who wrote an essay yelling at gms, other players, and more, who has been here for three months. This isn't a personal attack, Konrad, but it's what I said in the last thread: maybe Clok isn't the right place for you. Not a value judgement on you by any means. Just an observation. If you disagree with the GMs, and the Dev... then that is a huge huge huge reason to find another mud.
GM characters are more than allowed to play their own characters, with goals, desires, and rp. They can frankly do whatever the hell they want, unless they're giving themselves boosts or unfair advantages. That has been done by GMs in the past, and they have been asked to leave. Its their game, it's their rules, its their choices that are final. We're along for the ride -- it's what you sign up for when you click connect. Don't like that? Don't click connect -- it's really that simple.
And if that means you now find ic and ooc reasons for attacking Vidor, that is absolutely fine with me. It's a game, bro. It's a game.

[quote="Vaylon"]merin: I guess you could say it's an experiment, and who knows if it'll work?

vidor: I'm pleased you're so enthusiastic! When Vaylon first met Vidor, he seemed really easygoing and concerned mainly with woodworking, but then, at some point, he suddenly (or so it seemed to Vaylon) became concerned with developing his skills as a soldier in the fight against the resen. Is this perception correct? If so, what was the impetus for Vidor's seemingly sudden shift in focus?

Great question man. Between Emlith and the frankly lack of Udemi/Utasa around, Vidor determined that there was a real need to become more combative as he was one of the only ones around. He was also sickened by the things the infested did in Emlith, and by some other things that I can't get into, and basically came to the determination that "enough is enough." For a while he actually swung too far in the the wrong direction -- he was so aggressive and angry and impulsive that it was a problem. RPing Vidor's growth has actually been one of my favorite things to do in this MUD -- I'm trying to portray how much one has to grow up in the Lost Lands, and I hope that's coming through. He'll always have that soft-harted woodworker -- his dream is to be able to sit back in a house somewhere and just make bows -- but it's secondary right now.
It was also influenced on an OOC level, because I think I originally joined the Udemi for the wrong reasons. It was sort of presented as a "druid guild" and I liked that. But when I realized how it was (thanks, Vinz), there was more of a reason to explore this component of his character. He is named for Vidar, the Nortic God of revenge, so there's going to be a darker side to him.
I hope that helps.

Don't know how good I'll be with it, but sure. Ask questions of my characters if you like. If you need to know who is me, just ask. I know I don't use my characters names for the BBS.

It occurs to me that some people may not even know to ask me about a particular character because they don't know who I play. Would it help if I listed the main characters I play? I know I'd love getting asked about someone I don't play often, it lets me know people want that character around.