So, something happened today, and I realized I really do need to take a step back from CLOK. I blew up at something today, which I normally wouldn't have even let phase me. I've actually seriously considered just saying "screw it" and announcing the complete and full closure of the MUD server. Something which I know I'd deeply regret later. What it comes down to, is I'm just getting a bit too involved with this, and I need to take a step back and clear my head. We all know last week's break wasn't really much of a break at all, I was still pretty much there every day.
So, for now, I will not be checking the BBS, connecting to the server, responding to any contrarium.net emails, checking my clok.jirato skype, or replying to any CLOK friends I may have on Steam/Osu!/Origin/Battle.net at least through the rest of this week. I would also ask that the GM team please keep any contact on my other Skype account to a bare minimum. I know it sucks, but we've gone through slower periods before, and I'm sure you all can survive for a week or two without DEV presence.
I deeply regret that I haven't been able to fulfill more of the Patreon personal Skype calls this month. I even set dates with two people and then spent the time hanging out with my family rather than fulfilling my previously arranged obligations. I consider not being able to deliver on this a very serious issue. You've given me money to support the server, with the expectations of promised goods/services that have not been met. If you would like a refund of your donation, please let me know and I'll make sure it gets done.
Taking a break for reals
Taking a break for reals
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!
Re: Taking a break for reals
I hope your break does you some good, Jirato. We all need it from time to time!
I think that hanging out with family is more important than a Skype call that can be re-arranged. I'm not one of those few that have one scheduled, but, if I were, I would totally be understanding with you if you hung out with family and had to re-schedule a Skype call-- those can be arranged to fit schedules later, family and real life obligations are totally more important.
Seriously, though, hope things do you good!
I think that hanging out with family is more important than a Skype call that can be re-arranged. I'm not one of those few that have one scheduled, but, if I were, I would totally be understanding with you if you hung out with family and had to re-schedule a Skype call-- those can be arranged to fit schedules later, family and real life obligations are totally more important.
Seriously, though, hope things do you good!
Re: Taking a break for reals
Breaks can be a great thing. Do what's best for you, and don't sweat the trivial stuff like those Skype chats!
I hope everybody realizes that there are a diminishing number of GMs willing to spend their free time dealing with the more toxic complaints, personal attacks, and gossiping. If we want Clok to stick around we may want to take this into account.
I hope everybody realizes that there are a diminishing number of GMs willing to spend their free time dealing with the more toxic complaints, personal attacks, and gossiping. If we want Clok to stick around we may want to take this into account.
Re: Taking a break for reals
Yeah, take the time you need, this place gets to me, and I just play here. I'd much rather you take the time you need, than lose you completely.
"I don't think we're ever going to find out what is going on with these canim, where are they coming from?!"
Kent arrives from the southeast.
Kent hugs you.
say um
You say, "Um."
a Mistral Lake sentry arrives from the east, armor clanking.
Kent heads north.
Kent arrives from the southeast.
Kent hugs you.
say um
You say, "Um."
a Mistral Lake sentry arrives from the east, armor clanking.
Kent heads north.
-
blindndangerous
- Member
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:05 am
Re: Taking a break for reals
Skah makes a very good point. Take your break, and we'll be here when you get back.
A towering white-furred snow yeti exclaims, "Oog!"
Re: Taking a break for reals
Chill, and enjoy some time Jirato.
Don't let things and people drag you down.
Don't let things and people drag you down.
~Dorn
Uyoku takes a bite of her smelly skunk poop.
Uyoku takes a bite of her smelly skunk poop.
Re: Taking a break for reals
I've only been with CLOK for a little over three months, but I think I can contribute to this conversation. I pay a lot more attention than people seem to think, and I don't doubt my perceptions -- despite attempts to convince me the sky is green while seeing myself that it's blue -- so I've been able to make a few observations...
The first one is probably the most obvious: if you want to know how CLOK got to this point, the simple fact of the matter is that Rias was far, far too lenient. I'm not going to name any specific players in this post, but there are players out there who, seen with my own two eyes, have committed offenses against the spirit of playing a game in good faith -- i.e., outright cheating -- and against other players -- i.e., harassment -- so blatantly that I continuously marvelled at the fact that they hadn't been banned -- or, at least, it was still surprising to me for the first month. So, yes, Rias was far, far too lenient -- especially when other games would have long ago banned some of you.
Secondly, since these malicious people weren't being told to take a hike, they naturally collected in CLOK and drove most everyone decent away -- and it makes me angry that the OOC problems are so bad that there have been times when I literally stopped in the middle of roleplaying in order to talk to someone about a problem caused by OOC drama. My time in CLOK has been some of the most fun I've had with a game in years, and I'm one of those people who tries pretty hard to keep everything in-character -- I've had in-game chat off for months, even -- but it's hard to ignore it when it starts showing up on the BBS, in my tells, and on my Skype. What are some examples of toxic behaviors that I have witnessed myself? People blame the GMs for things they didn't cause, they maliciously spread untrue rumors, and they OOCly harass other players. Jirato is absolutely right when he describes these as poison, and it's clear to me that they're killing the game.
Thirdly, one of the problems, but this is only a minor one, that I see is that some of the "bad guys" are played by players. Any veteran tabletop GM will tell you that it's almost always a bad idea to have an evil PC in the party, especially if the player isn't used to handling it; in fact, most GMs forbid evil characters outright simply because nothing causes a campaign to self-destruct as quickly as PCs murdering one another in their sleep. Good GMing practice is to have the players united against a common threat, not at one another's throats. Likewise, in CLOK, I think that some (but not all) of the people playing "evil" or "bad guy" characters can't handle it entirely in-character, which is one additional (albeit minor) reason I perceive the playerbase is so fragmented and rife with OOC infighting. People get along best when they're united against a common foe: that's social psychology 101.
So what? Well, I can't offer any suggestions about the third point since doing away with "evil" guilds altogether would be too radical a change, perhaps. But I do have some suggestions about the other problem...
From my time being a GM for another game, I came to believe that people who behaved badly in especially egregious ways should be held publicly accountable by other players and shamed for their behavior, and that bullies or other irrefutably toxic people should be told to take a hike by the GMs.
I developed this idea from my own experiences as a GM and player, from reading about manipulation tactics, and from reading about toxic people and personality disorders. Time and time again, in this other game, I would see griefing or manipulation work like this: the perpetrator would isolate people or find already-isolated groups and exploit this fragmentation in order to operate in secrecy or tell each side different stories -- and, because none of these sides had the full story, none of them could put the pieces together to realize that they had been lied to or manipulated. (Sound familiar yet?) I was no longer a GM by this point, but I saw someone use this technique to kill an entire village's worth of player characters (in a permadeath game!), and, in another incident, I saw someone get punished and her character killed for having done ... nothing. It was all made up just because someone didn't like her.
In CLOK, these techniques are doubly effective since people are encouraged to keep what happens in-character a secret due to a culture of players not trusting one another. Secrecy is what allows manipulators, bullies, and toxic people to flourish. When people cooperate and share information, it makes a manipulator's job exponentially harder. I think that we need to start trusting each other as players to act in good faith, to be transparent about our characters, and to hold each other accountable when we fail to act in good faith. By "act in good faith," I mean treating other players with dignity and at least begrudging acceptance -- i.e., even if Vaylon the character is the most backbiting manipulative bastard who ever bastarded, I, Vaylon the player, am not -- keeping what happens in-character and out-of-character separate -- i.e., I am playing a character in this world, and I should not act on OOC information -- and just generally being kind to one another and not heaping malice or derision on each other.
To that end, in order to foster goodwill and a spirit of collaborative narrative-crafting with each other -- because that's what we're doing here, in my opinion; we're here to collectively tell a story, and there's no reason for any of us, as players of characters, to be as secretive and distrustful as we are -- I propose that we make our characters transparent to one another in order to show that we hold ourselves accountable as good-spirited contributors to this story. I'm more than happy to publicly talk about and explain my character's thoughts and motives for anything he did or does, and I encourage -- indeed, challenge -- the rest of you to try that, too.
Sounds radical? Yes, it undoubtedly is, compared to what we've been doing. But I'm willing to trust all of you to act in good faith because the reward is that CLOK becomes a place where we trust each other to collaboratively tell a story about our stoic warriors, our hedonistic shady guys, our dirty farmers, our philosophical assassins, and our mad sorcerers. I think you'll find that when we trust each other and honestly share information, and when we hold each other accountable for being conscientious roleplayers, it will leave little room for out-of-character lies, manipulation, toxicity, or bullying, and we can all get back to enjoying the game.
The first one is probably the most obvious: if you want to know how CLOK got to this point, the simple fact of the matter is that Rias was far, far too lenient. I'm not going to name any specific players in this post, but there are players out there who, seen with my own two eyes, have committed offenses against the spirit of playing a game in good faith -- i.e., outright cheating -- and against other players -- i.e., harassment -- so blatantly that I continuously marvelled at the fact that they hadn't been banned -- or, at least, it was still surprising to me for the first month. So, yes, Rias was far, far too lenient -- especially when other games would have long ago banned some of you.
Secondly, since these malicious people weren't being told to take a hike, they naturally collected in CLOK and drove most everyone decent away -- and it makes me angry that the OOC problems are so bad that there have been times when I literally stopped in the middle of roleplaying in order to talk to someone about a problem caused by OOC drama. My time in CLOK has been some of the most fun I've had with a game in years, and I'm one of those people who tries pretty hard to keep everything in-character -- I've had in-game chat off for months, even -- but it's hard to ignore it when it starts showing up on the BBS, in my tells, and on my Skype. What are some examples of toxic behaviors that I have witnessed myself? People blame the GMs for things they didn't cause, they maliciously spread untrue rumors, and they OOCly harass other players. Jirato is absolutely right when he describes these as poison, and it's clear to me that they're killing the game.
Thirdly, one of the problems, but this is only a minor one, that I see is that some of the "bad guys" are played by players. Any veteran tabletop GM will tell you that it's almost always a bad idea to have an evil PC in the party, especially if the player isn't used to handling it; in fact, most GMs forbid evil characters outright simply because nothing causes a campaign to self-destruct as quickly as PCs murdering one another in their sleep. Good GMing practice is to have the players united against a common threat, not at one another's throats. Likewise, in CLOK, I think that some (but not all) of the people playing "evil" or "bad guy" characters can't handle it entirely in-character, which is one additional (albeit minor) reason I perceive the playerbase is so fragmented and rife with OOC infighting. People get along best when they're united against a common foe: that's social psychology 101.
So what? Well, I can't offer any suggestions about the third point since doing away with "evil" guilds altogether would be too radical a change, perhaps. But I do have some suggestions about the other problem...
From my time being a GM for another game, I came to believe that people who behaved badly in especially egregious ways should be held publicly accountable by other players and shamed for their behavior, and that bullies or other irrefutably toxic people should be told to take a hike by the GMs.
I developed this idea from my own experiences as a GM and player, from reading about manipulation tactics, and from reading about toxic people and personality disorders. Time and time again, in this other game, I would see griefing or manipulation work like this: the perpetrator would isolate people or find already-isolated groups and exploit this fragmentation in order to operate in secrecy or tell each side different stories -- and, because none of these sides had the full story, none of them could put the pieces together to realize that they had been lied to or manipulated. (Sound familiar yet?) I was no longer a GM by this point, but I saw someone use this technique to kill an entire village's worth of player characters (in a permadeath game!), and, in another incident, I saw someone get punished and her character killed for having done ... nothing. It was all made up just because someone didn't like her.
In CLOK, these techniques are doubly effective since people are encouraged to keep what happens in-character a secret due to a culture of players not trusting one another. Secrecy is what allows manipulators, bullies, and toxic people to flourish. When people cooperate and share information, it makes a manipulator's job exponentially harder. I think that we need to start trusting each other as players to act in good faith, to be transparent about our characters, and to hold each other accountable when we fail to act in good faith. By "act in good faith," I mean treating other players with dignity and at least begrudging acceptance -- i.e., even if Vaylon the character is the most backbiting manipulative bastard who ever bastarded, I, Vaylon the player, am not -- keeping what happens in-character and out-of-character separate -- i.e., I am playing a character in this world, and I should not act on OOC information -- and just generally being kind to one another and not heaping malice or derision on each other.
To that end, in order to foster goodwill and a spirit of collaborative narrative-crafting with each other -- because that's what we're doing here, in my opinion; we're here to collectively tell a story, and there's no reason for any of us, as players of characters, to be as secretive and distrustful as we are -- I propose that we make our characters transparent to one another in order to show that we hold ourselves accountable as good-spirited contributors to this story. I'm more than happy to publicly talk about and explain my character's thoughts and motives for anything he did or does, and I encourage -- indeed, challenge -- the rest of you to try that, too.
Sounds radical? Yes, it undoubtedly is, compared to what we've been doing. But I'm willing to trust all of you to act in good faith because the reward is that CLOK becomes a place where we trust each other to collaboratively tell a story about our stoic warriors, our hedonistic shady guys, our dirty farmers, our philosophical assassins, and our mad sorcerers. I think you'll find that when we trust each other and honestly share information, and when we hold each other accountable for being conscientious roleplayers, it will leave little room for out-of-character lies, manipulation, toxicity, or bullying, and we can all get back to enjoying the game.
"I hope you have not been leading a double life, pretending to be wicked and being really good all the time. That would be hypocrisy." - The Importance of Being Earnest, Oscar Wilde
Re: Taking a break for reals
Like Vaylon, I, too, am open to sharing Fayne's (or any of my characters) thought process to anyone who wishes to understand why she does or has done something, and I can try my best to let you into her head if need be. But I've also noticed issues like Vaylon has addressed, and they've been the cause of me having to step away and take a day or two to recollect myself at times, and truth be told, they are partially to blame for my most recent hiatus from the game, though the issues were such that they were built up over a period of time. The thing I notice most is "cliques" that form between people who tend to interact with each other moreso than others. These are naturally formed due to the way humans operate, but I think we should strive to keep them from forming, at least by going out of our way to converse with others OOC if nothing else. Maybe try interacting with characters you might not normally interact with. It takes an effort from everyone to form an environment that is welcoming and friendly to all. And I would like to say that if anyone has ever felt targetted by myself at all in any way on an OOC level, I welcome your input and will gladly and peacably talk with you about it without getting defensive or offended.
A scrawny alley cat stares after the dog with big green eyes.
Speaking to a scrawny alley cat, you ask, "Friend of yours?"
A scrawny alley cat hisses angrily.
Speaking to a scrawny alley cat, you ask, "Friend of yours?"
A scrawny alley cat hisses angrily.
Re: Taking a break for reals
I'm going to say a few things.
1 - J, Z, Vinz, and rest: you are, without a doubt, the best team of GMs I have seen, and I've been mudding for years. I really hadn't found a "home base MUD" since I was fifteen or so, and there's a reason I've logged in every day. The worldbuilding, gm-character interaction, and environment that you have created is amazing and a great pleasure to play in. I've asked for quite a few things, and even when they were ridiculous (I'm still waiting on my vinzicorn) I was treated respectfully. Definitely take the time you need, because you have absolutely earned it.
2 - I love Vaylon's ideas. I really do. Particularly the component about holding people accountable. I can think of several players (absolutely not going to name names) who have made Clok a less enjoyable experience. These are players, mind, not characters. I have seen aggression towards GMs. I have seen rumors, backstabbing, and childish behavior which reminds me vividly of eleven year olds playing at being adults. It needs to stop yesterday. If you think the gms are being unfair, Jirato has made an institutionalized method for addressing it -- I suggest you make use of it. But if the game is so god-awfully bad, if the GMs are so cruel and mean and nasty and unfair and favoritistic, then you have one of two options: get over it, or get out. Other MUDs pay GMs for less work than our people put in. Jirato feels bad because he spent time with his family instead of answering questions on Skype. GMs make themselves available through chat, Skype, irk, teamtalk, e-mail, and more just to answer questions. These are people who are dedicating their lives building a playground for us to come enjoy, and we're complaining that the picnick tables have splinters and the slide gets too hot in the afternoons. So again, there are institutional ways of fixing problems. Use them. Act like adults. It's a mature game for mature people, and if we don't start acting like adults we're going to lose a game we all like. I personally have no problem telling people respectfully when I feel they are out of line, and I don't have a problem hearing that about myself; I know I'm not perfect. I don't want a witch hunt. But I want people to understand, as clearly as I can say it, that if you don't like our GM staff, there are over a hundred MUDs out there, all with different GMS, and I'm sure they'd be happy to have you. Me? I'm sticking around.
1 - J, Z, Vinz, and rest: you are, without a doubt, the best team of GMs I have seen, and I've been mudding for years. I really hadn't found a "home base MUD" since I was fifteen or so, and there's a reason I've logged in every day. The worldbuilding, gm-character interaction, and environment that you have created is amazing and a great pleasure to play in. I've asked for quite a few things, and even when they were ridiculous (I'm still waiting on my vinzicorn) I was treated respectfully. Definitely take the time you need, because you have absolutely earned it.
2 - I love Vaylon's ideas. I really do. Particularly the component about holding people accountable. I can think of several players (absolutely not going to name names) who have made Clok a less enjoyable experience. These are players, mind, not characters. I have seen aggression towards GMs. I have seen rumors, backstabbing, and childish behavior which reminds me vividly of eleven year olds playing at being adults. It needs to stop yesterday. If you think the gms are being unfair, Jirato has made an institutionalized method for addressing it -- I suggest you make use of it. But if the game is so god-awfully bad, if the GMs are so cruel and mean and nasty and unfair and favoritistic, then you have one of two options: get over it, or get out. Other MUDs pay GMs for less work than our people put in. Jirato feels bad because he spent time with his family instead of answering questions on Skype. GMs make themselves available through chat, Skype, irk, teamtalk, e-mail, and more just to answer questions. These are people who are dedicating their lives building a playground for us to come enjoy, and we're complaining that the picnick tables have splinters and the slide gets too hot in the afternoons. So again, there are institutional ways of fixing problems. Use them. Act like adults. It's a mature game for mature people, and if we don't start acting like adults we're going to lose a game we all like. I personally have no problem telling people respectfully when I feel they are out of line, and I don't have a problem hearing that about myself; I know I'm not perfect. I don't want a witch hunt. But I want people to understand, as clearly as I can say it, that if you don't like our GM staff, there are over a hundred MUDs out there, all with different GMS, and I'm sure they'd be happy to have you. Me? I'm sticking around.
Re: Taking a break for reals
The purpose of this thread was merely to announce my absence, not to attempt to call out/complain about any "toxic" individuals. I'd rather not have that here. Sorry.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!