CLOK BBS

Shield of Arms:
Some mercenaries of the Western Coalition favor heavier arms, with which the use of a shield would not be practical. They have therefore developed ways to defend themselves from assaults that would ordinarily require a shield. In particular, some mercenaries have learned to quickly spin their weapons at such a high speed that they form a rather dangerous physical barrier.

Prequisites:
Spin Attack (Mastery?)
Any Weapon Mastery
Melee (500)

Provides a passive chance to convert a parry roll into a block roll (w/ a 20% bonus) when using a two handed weapon that has been mastered (without a shield). Projectiles and spells can be blocked if successful. There could also be a small chance that a melee attacker takes some damage from being caught by the rapidly moving weapon if their attack is blocked.

Because mercenaries are not meant to dodge...

I see no reason why mercenaries should not be expected to dodge. The idea of occasionally blocking ranged attacks with a weapon has merit, however. I find it difficult to see it as a result of rapid spinning, in particular due to the reflexes required to parry a blow at all, let alone react quickly enough to spin a weapon fast enough to act as a sort of shield.

A possible simpler alternative may be giving this chance to certain weapons which are broad enough to be turned to the side in order to deflect ranged attacks. For instance, a broad-bladed twohanded sword or a broad-headed hafted weapon such as an axe could be turned sideways to deflect an arrow.

I would suggest that this passive chance of blocking with weapons not be too great, however, lest it trivialize the use of shields and the sacrifices required for wielding twohanded weapons or two weapons at once.

Some two handed weapons have been needing a little extra love. To me, this sounds like a nice way to do that.

I'll discuss this with the rest of the staff.

I want to parry with my giant hammer!

If both the Mercenaries and the Dwaedn gain this ability I would say it should be a 20% penalty (as it is a improvised shield) but other wise seems a decent ability). Though for balance sake, the chance to change a Parry to a Block should be between 15-20%. One in ten seems almost too few but one in four seems a bit too much.

Love it.

[quote=Nootau]If both the Mercenaries and the Dwaedn gain this ability I would say it should be a 20% penalty (as it is a improvised shield) but other wise seems a decent ability). Though for balance sake, the chance to change a Parry to a Block should be between 15-20%. One in ten seems almost too few but one in four seems a bit too much.[/quote]

The roll would be based off of weapon skill I assume and not shield use, so I don't know about a large penalty. It would be changing a single roll (you lose a parry chance and gain a block chance) not really adding any, so I'd think that you wouldn't want to drop their defense roll in most cases as when fighting a melee combatant the skill might hinder you if the roll was decreased.

I personally don't really see dwaedn getting this ability as it's defensive and they're completely offensive to my understanding. They also don't have weapon masteries if I'm remembering correctly and doing something like this would require skill and not just brute force.

There would be no reason for this ability to activate in melee. Blocking ranged attacks with a weapon should certainly not be as effective as using a shield. I believe a penalty to some degree is appropriate.

The reason for it to activate in melee (assuming the first idea) would be the chance to do some minor damage along with the block. If this was not added in and it only worked with ranged, I agree (In this case you would actually be gaining a roll that you did not have before).

EDIT: Also, again this would not be based off of a shield use skill but off of weapon use so I don't think you can make a direct comparison and say it should decrease roll from a shield. The benefit of using a shield is that you get a reliable block instead of a small chance at a block. I don't see why it would be really necessary to put the penalty in as not including it does not state that blocking with a weapon is more effective/just as effective than blocking with a shield. It's simply a different methos of blocking reliant on a different skill.

Blocking spells with a weapon sounds kinda silly... Also dodge is pretty easy to learn, anyone in any guild is able to train it.

The dodge comment was intended mostly as a joke, although I still believe that heavily armored individuals should have their dodge compromised to some degree as they're definitely not as mobile and shouldn't be able move out of the way as quickly as someone wearing softer armors.

If dodge is ever reduced for armored individuals, this might be a nice trade to be sure that they're still capable of defending themselves.

Agreed, heavy armor is in need of further balancing factors in the form of penalties, and dodge in particular seems appropriate.

Armor use is used to negate armor penalties, if it does not, what is the skill used for?

[quote=Nootau]Armor use is used to negate armor penalties, if it does not, what is the skill used for?[/quote]

By that logic, I should be able to train off armor stealth penalties. Armor use should be able to negate some penalties (i.e.slightly decreasing the probability that a channel will drop or that an accuracy roll will be decreased) but some hindrance should always remain. If you want to dodge better in armor, I'd think you'd have to get a lot better at dodging rather than just being more comfortable in your armor.

The fact is that someone wearing full plate will never be able to move as quickly as if they were wearing soft leather. Maybe we should move this to a different thread if we're going to continue to discuss?

I said nothing of obsoleting the skill, Nootau, only that armor should incur additional penalties. For instance, I believe it would be appropriate to have certain insurmountable dodge penalties, the degrees varying based on type of armor. Wearing a full set of plate, I should never be able to dodge as well as someone without any armor, regardless of my armor skill.

The skill should not allow one to use armor as if they were wearing none at all, without any penalties, even considering skill rolls. Such an implementation would be grossly overpowered. There should be baseline penalties incurred to balance the extreme advantages of wearing armor that cannot be overcome, save perhaps by specific guild abilities.

As it stands, there is little reason not to use the very heaviest armor unless one relies heavily on stealth and channeling. I believe that is a bad thing, and that the armor system could use additional work and balancing.

Perhaps a moderator can split this topic for further discussion of armor.

Jinx, Acarin.

[quote=Alexander]Jinx, Acarin.[/quote]

I owe you a beer. Find Acarin in game and he'll hook you up.

Armor is for pansies. ;D

[quote=Evelyn]Armor is for pansies. ;D[/quote]

Dearest Spearhead and Alexander,

It has not escaped my notice that Evelyn believes you both to be pansies. I ask that you forgive her for this disrespect.

Thank you both for your kind consideration.

Warmest Regards,
A Pyschopath

My question seems to be still unanswered.. Seeing as Armor use is currently a skill that can be trained, how much of the penalties can be trained away as well as which penalties can be trained away? Does armor use help Stealth or only Accuracy and Dodge?

Not just Evelyn, all Dwaedn!

[quote=Nootau]My question seems to be still unanswered.. Seeing as Armor use is currently a skill that can be trained, how much of the penalties can be trained away as well as which penalties can be trained away? Does armor use help Stealth or only Accuracy and Dodge?[/quote]

Armor use does not help stealth. Dodge is not currently influenced by armor. There are benefits to accuracy I think (although I'm probably not the best person to answer this).

[quote=Nootau]My question seems to be still unanswered.. [/quote]

Your question was not answered because it was irrelevant. You asked what the skill was used for if it was not to negate penalties. The fact is that armor skill is indeed used to negate armor penalties, as I assumed an elemancer who is known to have a tendency to wear heavy armor would be aware of. I am more than happy to answer your additional questions, however.

[quote=Nootau]Seeing as Armor use is currently a skill that can be trained, how much of the penalties can be trained away as well as which penalties can be trained away? Does armor use help Stealth or only Accuracy and Dodge?[/quote]

Armor effects all standard combat accuracy and defense (all three types: dodge, block, and parry). Skill in armor gives an increased chance per attack to overcome these penalties, which can be completely negated, regardless of armor type.

As can be seen when you check your skills or effects, armor directly effects your stealth skill as an active penalty, rather than being calculated upon each roll as occurs when attacking or defending in combat.

There is no way to reduce the channeling interruption chance that I am aware of, beyond guild-specific abilities.