CLOK BBS

Had enough, done.

No new characters start in Corvus

Characters hide their citizenship.

Limited RP

No Road

Always late to receive new items and updates

Stupid cold.

Everyone is so happy huggy ic there is no point to being evil unless you're Acarin level.

The outpost is like the readheaded step-child of the game.

Taking a break from Vitello and playing alts for a while once I get over my frustration I'm likely to move him out of the outpost.

You've been back for what...a week?

Being an evil or dark character isn't supposed to be easy. Good is easy. Good is usually dumb too. It takes someone with quite a bit of dedication and intellect to play a character who has conflicting views of the world. Most people are not up to the task, especially in a game that hinders a lot of interaction for a myriad of reasons.

I will agree that the Outpost doesn't have any GM interaction which is probably a stark contrast to when you started and Sceptus and others were visible as NPCs and giving directives. That doesn't mean those 3 or 4 characters left in the game who play characters in Corvus should give up. The only difference between Corvus and the other towns in this regard is that previously we actually had consistent NPC presence, which helped to guide RP, storyline and conflict. So now that there isn't any, we feel the absence more than anyone.

It doesn't need to be that way, however. This game is too small to allow the burden of engagement to fall onto the GMs. But, if you've been at it for a week and it's too rough, I'm the last person to chide someone for remembering this is just a game. I just think that it's a good place to start to try to be the change that you want to see take place in the game.

"No new characters start in Corvus"
It used to be that ANYONE could start in Corvus but we had some undesirable results from that so we changed it back to 'entry via RP only". (By the way, if anyone wishes to join and has a serious character to contribute, please send an in game letter to Winston. However, be advised that we tend to ignore entries from your 99999-thousanth alt who you only played once. So, if you are serious about it, play that character for a good long while and develop him/her RP wise.)

"Characters hide their citizenship."
This is true, there is a bit of a taboo about being seen at the outpost but that doesn't mean that they don't get together in secret or rally on their esp channel when something major is afoot.

Limited RP
See above^

"No Road"
Road? Huh? You mean there is no major road to the outpost? If so then that is partially intentional. The outpost is apprehensive of outsiders and does not want lost travelers wandering in by accident. This causes some problems when it comes to trading but we get by.

"Always late to receive new items and updates"
IC'ly the outpost is a bit out of the way from the main trading routes so items filter in more slowly than the other towns, this includes new trainers, services etc. OOC'ly we try to have every town have the same updates and some of the same items (market permitting) but the outpost has always lagged a bit as it is a lower priority given the current population and other factors.

"Stupid cold."
You need to bundle up!

"Everyone is so happy huggy ic there is no point to being evil unless you're Acarin level."
Playing an appreciated evil character can be hard to do, I know. In my experience, it can sometimes be more difficult than playing a goodie goodie character. Perhaps a social, people loving person may receive more accolades from others which is why many choose that route. It also comes down to personal RP style and preference.

"The outpost is like the readheaded step-child of the game."
Are you calling Corvus a Ginger? In that case, we wear our red hair and freckles with pride! :-P

"Taking a break from Vitello and playing alts for a while once I get over my frustration I'm likely to move him out of the outpost."
Best of luck to you, perhaps we will see you in your next incarnation.

I know there's at least one Corvite (besides yourself) who's frequently around the Outpost when he's online, and he's online fairly frequently. Hopefully you can meet up with him at some point. One possible issue (this is based on a hunch more than actual observance, so correct me if I'm wrong) is that Vitello seems to want to be exclusively involved with the Corvus Outpost and eschew outsiders. This seems like it'd make things difficult as far as social interaction goes, since Corvus population is low to begin with, and also seems like it'd hamper trading opportunities.

Hope you have fun with some alts. The other towns certainly aren't made up of goodie-goodies - there's a fair amount of ongoing drama about how bad many of their members are, so being non-Corvus is far from guaranteed saccharine.

Rias wrote: The other towns certainly aren't made up of goodie-goodies - there's a fair amount of ongoing drama about how bad many of their members are, so being non-Corvus is far from guaranteed saccharine.

I already called this out.

Good is usually dumb too.

Vitello wrote:Characters hide their citizenship.

Unfortunately, the Outpost has a bad reputation that they worked hard for. It'll take a lot of work to overcome that reputation. In the meantime, people aren't going to go advertising their allegiance.

Avedri wrote:Being an evil or dark character isn't supposed to be easy. Good is easy. Good is usually dumb too. It takes someone with quite a bit of dedication and intellect to play a character who has conflicting views of the world. Most people are not up to the task, especially in a game that hinders a lot of interaction for a myriad of reasons.

I'd hold off on casting stones until the "evil" players come up with something better than murdering healers and robbing orphans to prove how evil they are.

Evil characters in this game have done plenty better. You just weren't around.

I'm sorry to hear you're having a hard time with your return Vitello. It's always fun RPing with you. Hopefully you find an alt you like and can come back to Vitello sometime down the line.

I hope you reconsider Vitello. Either way, you should probably branch out in terms of how you RP and the places you go. There is interesting "evil" RP in Clok, but it doesn't always get delivered to your doorstep. It was really hard to get in touch with you IC for RP, and you didn't seem to venture out very far from Corvus, so I doubt you met many characters since rejoining. Corvus isn't (and shouldn't) be a bustling, high population town like Mistral or Shadgard, and lots of Corvites have very good reasons to hide their association with the place.

Avedri wrote:You've been back for what...a week?

Try 5 weeks and most of the problems now were problems then.

Noctere wrote:"No new characters start in Corvus"
It used to be that ANYONE could start in Corvus but we had some undesirable results from that so we changed it back to 'entry via RP only". (By the way, if anyone wishes to join and has a serious character to contribute, please send an in game letter to Winston. However, be advised that we tend to ignore entries from your 99999-thousanth alt who you only played once. So, if you are serious about it, play that character for a good long while and develop him/her RP wise.)

After a good long while characters are pretty well established where they are. What incentive is there to come to Corvis?

Noctere wrote:"No new characters start in Corvus"
"No Road"
Road? Huh? You mean there is no major road to the outpost? If so then that is partially intentional. The outpost is apprehensive of outsiders and does not want lost travelers wandering in by accident. This causes some problems when it comes to trading but we get by.

Everyone knows where it is and its fairly easy to line a road with corpses and warnings to turn back.

Noctere wrote:
"Always late to receive new items and updates"
IC'ly the outpost is a bit out of the way from the main trading routes so items filter in more slowly than the other towns, this includes new trainers, services etc. OOC'ly we try to have every town have the same updates and some of the same items (market permitting) but the outpost has always lagged a bit as it is a lower priority given the current population and other factors.
.

Water has been part of the game how long and Corvus just got it?
Blacksmith repair has been part of the game how long and the outpost just got it?
You've needed weeding tools in farming for a long time and still don't have those.

It isn't going to have a population if it doesn't have the same basic function level as other towns. Again what incentive is there to be Outpost? Less options just to be in an 'evil place' despite evil happening everywhere?

Rias wrote: One possible issue (this is based on a hunch more than actual observance, so correct me if I'm wrong) is that Vitello seems to want to be exclusively involved with the Corvus Outpost and eschew outsiders. This seems like it'd make things difficult as far as social interaction goes, since Corvus population is low to begin with, and also seems like it'd hamper trading opportunities.

Vitello isn't against consorting with outsiders, but 'outpost citizens' and related activities are the highest priority (and my largest passion). Also after my absence I've been dragging my feet about travel as I'm sure it has been made quirkier and more deadly(than it already was) in my absence. That and I make decent money and my wagon/resource storage is close by.

Skah wrote:Corvus isn't (and shouldn't) be a bustling, high population town like Mistral or Shadgard,

Why not? What reason is there to not grow into an evil empire profiting from lack of moral obligations?

Vitello wrote:Why not? What reason is there to not grow into an evil empire profiting from lack of moral obligations?

I can think of a few things that would slow them down.

1: They have some powerful neighbors who dislike/don't trust them. This not only serves as a threat to Corvus should it grow too big and make said neighbors so uneasy as to respond with force, but also limits trade and influence.
- Shadgard tends to hate Corvus, thanks to the fact that Sceptus and Corvites frequently invaded them, kidnapped their people, destroyed their town and outlying amenities, etc. Sure, most of that's a few years in the past now, but Shadgardians aren't quick to forget.
- Valeria was originally established and populated by Viali forces solely because the Corvus Outpost was getting too powerful and too uppity, frequently attacking Shadgard and other Lost Lands citizens (declaring war on the Church didn't help much, either). Aside from their soldiers being from arguably the top military nation in Arad, they also have a fair few Thaumaturges amongst their ranks whom can obliterate nethrim by the score, and nethrim make up the bulk of the Corvus Outpost's military strength.

2: They have a pretty awful reputation. Their members are frequently stirring up trouble in the Lost Lands and performing horiffic acts that gets the Corvus Outpost a lot of bad press. The hamlets are all more or less terrified of Corvites at this point, and even Mistral Lake seems to be becoming wary of them. Again, this limits trade and spread of influence, and serves to unite the people of the Lost Lands in the thought that if those Corvites start gaining too much influence and power again, something should be done about it.

3: Corvus Outpost is just that: An outpost. It's quite limited in real estate, being a mountain fortress. If they wanted to expand and grow into a full-fledged city (let alone an "empire") they'd have some serious work ahead of them, and I suspect they'd run into trouble if they started expanding out into the land outside the fortress. There'd be a lot of concern from their neighbors (see previous points).

4: It seems that in general, the kind of people attracted to the Corvus Outpost aren't exactly a recipe for harmonious group effort for the good of their fellows. There tends to be infighting over power or place in the pecking order, or just to establish that "yes, I am eviler and more bad-a than you".

While evil may be cool and sexy, it tends to cause people to unite against it because it's so ... well, evil. Considering the Corvus Outpost is extremely young and has a low population relative to the other nearby major settlements, one of its nearest neighbors is outright hostile to it, and it has a bad reputation in general in the Lost Lands, things aren't looking up for growing into an Empire of Evil anytime soon.

I'm not saying there's no way Corvus could ever become a big, thriving, flourishing Empire of Evil, but I'd say it's highly unlikely as things stand now. Maybe they'll find some uber artifact of doom, or some sorcerous breakthrough that allows them to make a serious grab without too high a risk of being opposed, fought, and beaten back/destroyed. Who knows? Lately, it seems like they've been on more of a "we're not evil, we're just misunderstood" kick anyway. Personally, I'd enjoy some more good old-fashioned open conflict as from the old days.

Musing, musing.

See, all of that can be addressed icly and it's given me half a dozen rp ideas right off the bat. But it took nearly rage quitting to get the info. Before it was just 'that is just the way it is'.

And I realized I jumped the gun and shot my mouth off. Vitello can't leave the outpost until he has property that matches (or surpasses) his outpost holdings. Given the costs and I'm guessing low priority of pc buildings it will be a while before that can happen and I'm not going to pass up that much time to profit. Property scouting will be ig justification to visit and rp with the other towns.

Vitello wrote:Everyone is so happy huggy ic there is no point to being evil unless you're Acarin level.

Weren't people complaining that everyone was too mean, thieving, and snarky not long ago? What does other people being happy huggy have to do with your character being evil?

The outpost was founded to be the safe bastion of tainted and sorcerers.... but it isn't actually dangerous to be tainted or practice sorcery. But since I aligned with the outpost I can't get into Shadgard anymore. What is the point?

Skjotur wrote:

Vitello wrote:Everyone is so happy huggy ic there is no point to being evil unless you're Acarin level.

Weren't people complaining that everyone was too mean, thieving, and snarky not long ago? What does other people being happy huggy have to do with your character being evil?

I think that complaint dealt most with OOC issues.

Vitello wrote:it took nearly rage quitting to get the info. Before it was just 'that is just the way it is'.

I'd say it took nearly ragequitting to get you to ask the right question to get the info. Asking the question would have worked without the rage, too.

Vitello wrote:The outpost was founded to be the safe bastion of tainted and sorcerers.... but it isn't actually dangerous to be tainted or practice sorcery.

The Outpost wast founded by the warlock named Sceptus Corvus to gather followers, influence, knowledge, and power to himself. As part of this plan, it was declared a safe haven for people who were persecuted for their questionable behavior, morals, and ethics (or complete lack thereof) - most specifically, those with sorcerous aptitude who would follow the warlock, support him, share their knowledge with him, and bring him further power. It certainly wasn't some big philanthropic act on Sceptus' part - he did it for personal reasons and personal gain, and sought to draw a specific type of people to him, particularly because they would be easy to convince to join him in his outpost where they could "be themselves without fear of judgment or persecution". Since Sceptus has been run out, the new leaders may have had different ideas as to what the Corvus Outpost should be, but I'm not as knowledgable on their goals and ideals. I know Lythwer claimed to be acting in Sceptus' stead in his absence, so likely not much different. Winston hasn't revealed a whole lot about himself yet, other than his obvious influence and power that allowed him to outright seize the place for himself by force.

That many of the people drawn to the Corvus Outpost are tainted and/or sorcerers doesn't mean that tainted people and sorcerers are universally ostracized. There is a pervading wariness and mistrust regarding both sorcery and tainted individuals throughout most of the Lost Lands, and it's been getting worse lately, due in no small part to the acts of various sorcerers that have gone public.

One step forward and two steps back.

So Winston is at the wheel but there is no clue where he is steering the ship?

Maybe I got the wrong initial impression of the outpost, it is starting to seem to be just a lawless collection of thugs, the ostracized, insane, and intolerable.

You mean that wasn't your initial impression?

Initially I perceived it as the future home of sorcery. At the time of it's creation the rook parlor was limited to one dingy hideout and Mistral Lake wasn't even mentioned yet.

The outpost could be the start of a sorcery based society. Imagine the potential of a society bolstered militarily and possibly economically by a legion of undead. The Macabre fashion and philosophy and fashions living next to the dead. A justice system with punishments far worse than death.

I rped with Sceptus and he seemed pleased with Vitello's acts and plans of development to turn the outpost into something more than a decrepit ruin.

The Corvus military strength has always been primarily nethrim-based - primarily animates, some constructs, and some demons for the big stuff. I always imagined a good chunk of their labor force was similar, but don't quote me on that. I think it's already got a pretty solid "Outpost of Spooky Sorcery" vibe to it.

Under Lythwer's rule, some of the population worked to spiff the place up a bit with her help (notice it's not quite as ruinsy anymore), though that got a lot of grumbling from several other residents who liked the "spooky ruin of evil" vibe. She also tried to make the place more tempting to newcomers by keeping a lot of the unsettling nethrim out of sight for the most part and having more regular people taking up posts, though Winston seems to prefer Sceptus' approach - the nethrim are far easier to control and maintain, and they don't talk back or demand fair wages (or any at all!).

Only this game could aggravate me so much yet still have me coming back. *groan*

Bwa ha ha haaaaa!

Just wanted to say two Corvites should be popping around, if we can figure out how to even do anything again!