CLOK BBS

I've heard rumor of an artisan type guild in the works?

So I wanted to add my thoughts on this:

My opinion is that this guild should be similar to the others, only that it provides bonuses to all the Professional type skills, rather than combat related skills. This provides bonuses to players who wish to focus on the professional skill sets in the game, instead of the combat portion of the game.


Pros:
- Exclusive access Merchanting skill = Higher skill means you can barter and sell your wares for more to the markets.
- Access to Professional Trainers within the guild for all types of professional skills at a discount.
- Ability to STAKE CLAIM to an area to begin a mine. (May only have 1 at a time.)
- Interest gains on your bank account.
- Weapon Forging skill = earned via Guild points.
- Armor Forging skill = earned via Guild points.
- Increased speed and effeciency in other professional skills. Fishing/Logging/Trapping. (These would be implemented as time went on.)

- Ability to purchase a shop, or stand to sell wares. These would be set up in a specific area of town for other players to visit.
Shop = 50k riln
Stand = 15k riln

Cons:
No additional combat abilities.
No additional healing abilities.
No additional magic abilities.


Just some thoughts while I'm bored at work and certainly realize that certain systems (aka: forging) may already have been discussed by the GM team.

I've wanted to put in a merchant-type guild for a while, but haven't really met any people who are interested in much beyond the combat aspects of the game (hence why they're more developed). At least, nobody that's spoken out about it before. I like your ideas, and I encourage you (and others) to post more to help make a Merchant-type guild a reality.

Adding new guilds and coding up their abilities isn't hard - coming up with things to make them unique and enjoyable is. By contributing ideas, you speed the process along greatly, and I'm very appreciative of any input, as it makes my work several-times easier.

I'm always glad to offer suggestions/ideas. I enjoy it. Especially when I get to see an idea of mine actually made for others to enjoy. To me that's very rewarding.

The idea of the Merchant's Guild in my head is based on the idea that it would be able to support those players more focused on combat via Food/Armor/Weapons for sale at the shop. Also being able to 'own' your own shop/mine and have a reputation for your character within this class brings a sense of accomplishment to being focused on the professional skills instead of combat.

Collins may not be able to smash/shoot infested as well as some others, but that's because he's focused on mining and cooked up his own fish on a campfire today. That's neat by the way.

I do like how you've got a section of the mine blocked off by the foreman for the 'mining guild' only. There are a number of things you could do with that.

- It could be a headquarters for the miner's/merchant's guild with it's own furnaces.
- Access to higher capacity, guild-only handcarts. (Change noun to Workcart to distinguish and help simplify.)
- Access to wagons, as mentioned in another post. Mount can pull the wagon which holds 5-10x loads of handcarts.
- Anvils could be added (As part of forging implementation.)

I have as a rough scale in mind for mining areas.
- Public mines: basic materials, copper, turquoise, etc, as it is now.
- Public wild mines: (scarecrow mine for example) better returns, small chance for better matierals like iron, sapphires.
- Guild mines:(Safer than most) better materials, iron, silver, sapphire-ore, turquoise, + more
- Private mines: best materials/more dangerous: gold, nickel, coal etc. diamonds/ rubies, etc. better chance as you go deeper,

You would still have a chance to find all kinds of materials as you worked in better mining areas.

The Merchant's Guild would also be wealthy, so they could own land for use by their members to benefit other professional skills. These are used for cutting lumber, fishing, trapping.


Fishing Ideas:
- Fishing... Guild would have better baits/equipment to help catch more rare/nutritious fish?
* PUT {bait type} ON pole

- Boats? These wouldn't have to be guild only. People can go out on boats on the lake to fish in the middle of the lake for different fish. Swimming skill comes into effect if the boat should tip. Somehow. (LAKE MONSTER! hehe)

- Guild members would have access to fishing nets, to put in the lake and retreive later to catch a higher number of fish. These could then be cooked and placed in the shop to sell cheap as food for people. (Affected by fishing skill.)

Logging:
Merchant Guild Lumber Camp: Members can bring logs to the Guild camp in order to recieve higher returns and be able to cut lumber from private land to avoid the trek back to town with a cart full of wood.
Better axes available?

Trapping:
Merchant Guild Game Preserve:
Guild members have access to private wilderness areas with rare animals for trapping to sell furs, meat for food, etc.

I'd play this class. Money is power so the person with the most money is lord!

I like the idea of there being a Merchant Guild, and then there being an Artificer Guild, a guild dedicated purely to building things like clockworks, weapons, (maybe) magical items, guns, etc.

I think those are great skills which could be implemented as skills of the Merchant's Guild as well.

Though, magical items/trinkets would be better suited to be made by the elemancers/monks, in my opinion.

Elemancers = Magical items pertaining to elements and offense.
Monks = Magical items of a spiritual/protective nature.

My logic behind this being that the Merchant's Guild seems to be more about working with your hands, to create something tangible. While magical items, Enchanting, Blessings, etc. takes considerable study of the mystic arts to perform.

So to preface these ideas, most need a lot more work, but I think it would be possible to get some basic skills started, beginning with mining so you had supplies to work with. Then once that was solidified, it would be easier to add onto it with Metallurgy/Gem crafting, etc. giving you more ability to use the materials created.

So, with that said...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~Mercantile Guild Ideas~

Guild points gained by: Mining, Gem-cutting, Jewelry crafting, Logging, Trapping, Fishing, Farming??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~Skills:
*Mercantilism: Increased skill in barter/trade; able to sell for higher, and buy for lower.
*Influence: Able to hire Mercenaries/Bodyguards.
*Gem Cutting: Able to process gem ore into gemstones, greatly increasing value.
*Metallurgy: Able to combine ores to create metals not available via mining.
*Jewelry Crafting: Able to craft rings, bands, signets, necklaces, and buckles and set them with gemstones.
*Forging/Metal Working?: Ability to work with metals to provide casting (Parts/Tools/Gears?) and Plating and Armor improvements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalworking (Or, have forging bonuses if this skill isn't to be exclusive to the guild)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~Other Benefits of Membership:
Access to Guild Mines - Easy access to sell, higher returns and higher chances for rare ores.
Access to Guild Logging Camps - easy access to sell, (eventually implement different tree/wood types)
Access to Guild game preserves - Different animals to trap for hides to use for leathers.
Access to advanced Guild tools and workshops
Access to Guild forges/furnaces
Access to fertile Guild farming land?
Able to purchase a claim for a personal mining.
Able to purchase a deed to own a shop or sales stand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~Guild Tools:
Workcarts = hold 2x as much as handcarts
Wagons = hold 10x as much as handcarts – pulled by mounts
Sharper logging axes? Two-person logging saw? (Push pull)
More effective or longer lasting mining picks (if damage system is implemented.)
Fishing nets = can catch many fish from boats
Gem chisel - used for faceting
Gem grinder – used for cabochons
Gem tumbler – used for tumbling
Forge
Furnace
Hilt molds
Weapon molds
Anvils – for blacksmithing/forging
Jewelry molds
Plate armor moldings?
chain armor link moldings?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~Influence Guild Skill~

Allows members to hire mercenary parties to protect/fight with you. Mercenaries will GUARD you.

Higher Influence allows you to hire more elite soldiers to your cause, although the cost for these more adept troops increases as well. You may only have 1 type of mercenary party at a time as hired troops are particular about their relations with competing mercenary groups.

Mercenaries guard for several hours, unless defeated first.
Mercenary ranks/cost:
mercenary grunt – 500 riln per
mercenary thug – 1000 riln per
mercenary tough – 1500 riln per
mercenary muscle – 2000 riln per
mercenary escort – 3000 riln per
mercenary guard – 4000 riln per
mercenary sentinel – 5000 riln per

1 rank = 1 grunt
5 ranks = up to 2 grunts
10 ranks = 1 thug or 2 grunts
15 ranks = 2 thugs or 2 grunts
20 ranks = 1 tough or 2 thugs or 3 grunts
25 ranks = 2 tough, or 2 thugs, or 3 grunts
30 ranks = 1 muscle or 2 tough, or 2 thugs, or 3 grunts
35 ranks = 2 muscle 2 tough, or 2 thugs, or 3 grunts
40 ranks = 1 escort/2 muscle/2 tough/2 thugs/4grunts
45 ranks = 2 escorts… etc.
50 ranks = 1 guard … etc
60 ranks = 2 guard… etc
75 ranks = 1 sentinel … etc.
100 ranks = 2 sentinel … etc
150 ranks = 3 sentinels
200 ranks = ?

(New releases possible as needed.)

Collins just went north, followed by a mercenary sentinel.
Collins just arrived, followed by a pair of mercenary sentinels.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


~Gem Cutting Guild Skill~

(Term for stone cutting is ‘Lapidary’)

Types: Tumbling, Cabochon Cutting, Faceting

Tumbling: uncut gemstones are placed in the tumbler, the process smoothes them overtime.
Cabochon: uncut gemstones are smoothed via a grinder to a rounded top, and flat bottom. Most common type of cut, used to increase value of gems.
Faceted: uncut gemstones are cut to a particular shape and style of cut. Faceting is the style of cutting that has the greatest profit potential.
Cut types: Oval, cushion, shield, brilliant, rose, step, square, baguette, barion, marquis,

Tools:
Gem chisel – used for faceting – most work, highest returns.
Gem grinder – used for creating cabochons, medium work/quality/returns
Gem tumbler – lower returns, but requires less hands on work.


Nouns/Gem types:

Diamond – blue, yellow, none
Sapphire – many types/colors
Ruby
Emerald
Quartz – many types/colors
Turquoise
Many other options…

Final product examples:
A blue diamond cabochon.
A brilliant-cut blue sapphire
A polished piece of turquoise (tumbled)
A marquise-cut ruby

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~Metallurgy Guild Skill~
(Kian’s posts will help a lot with this.)

Basic real life combinations:
Copper + Tin = Bronze
Copper + Zinc = Brass
Iron + Coal + Limestone = Steel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel#Ancient_steel
Gold + Silver = Electrum
+many more

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~Jewel Crafting Guild Skill~

Skill level unlocks more customizable options.

Nouns:
Signet
Ring
Band
Necklace
Buckle
Neck chain
Brooch
Earrings
Bracelet
Anklet

Metals: (based on mining/metallurgy)
Silver
Gold
Copper
Bronze
Brass
Steel
Iron

Gems:
Based on Gem-cutting skill development.

Process:
Necklace, Neck chain:
Molten metal poured into mold for links..
Or, beads are created of various metals. Strung on a strand of hide/string, or thin chain.

Rings/Bands/bracelets/ brooches
Metal bars are melted down and poured into molds.
Pieces are polished down.
Setting and Gemstone added.

Final product examples:
A silver ring set with an oval-cut pink sapphire.
A fine gold brooch inset with a blue diamond cabochon (gem example earlier)

Buckles:
Molten metal poured into mold
Polished down
Attached to clothing/container/belt “PUT BUCKLE ON BACKPACK” = a backpack with a polished {metal} buckle.” “Works with belts, backpacks, satchels.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~Metal Working/Forging Guild Skills~
(This section needs more research/work than the others.)

Bars of metal can be used to be melted into set weapon molds, and then must be forged via blacksmith hammer for strength.

Hilts – created via molding process.
Hafts – crafted from logging via woodworking skill.

Blades/Heads – Depending on the size of the weapon, several bars will need to be smelted together. Once enough metal is collected the shaping begins, the blacksmith heating the metal in the forge, and working it on the anvil via hammer/blacksmith to create the appropriate shape/edge and strength.

Blade and hilt/haft are then fitted together and secured.

Other ideas to develop:
Tanning/Leatherworking
Armor crafting

I would say...

+10 merchant guild points each time a Professional skill is raised.

I am going to post in a while things for the Professional skills to be used for.

I like the idea of anyone being able to do any crafting to at least a basic degree, but the Merchant Guild being able to access more complex "recipes", tools, and facilities.

Yes, at least basic crafting will be available to everyone. Merchants will just be able to make more of the crafting system (particularly the gathering and selling aspects). I'm considering having a separate artificer guild as someone mentioned before, who are more about the actual crafting and less about the money-making. There would definitely be some overlap between the two.

I like the idea of two separate guilds. "Merchant Guild" or even "Mercantile Guild" doesn't really make me think of crafters, as much as, well... Merchants. People that have access to more money, materials, shops, and land, as well as fairly mundane crafting. But "Artificer Guild" makes me think of clockwork constructions, enchanted items, and alchemy. Good at crafting, but requiring the help of the Merchants to get the best materials to work with, whereas the Merchants need the Artificers to actually craft the goods.

They could always share a chapterhouse, like the Udemi/Utasa.

Something like this...

* Indicates basic skills are available to all players.

Merchants
- Mining*
- Metallurgy
- Gem cutting
- Logging* (+woodworking bonuses/creating boards/beams to increase value)
- Fishing*
- Skinning/Hunting*
- Farming*

As has been pointed out all players can do the basic things, but the Merchant's guild would be the ones to have access to better areas/tools/formulas(trade secrets) to increase value of the materials and process it for resale.

Artisans:
- Forging (uses mining/metallurgy products)
- Leather Working (Uses trapping products)
- Jewelry crafting (uses mining/metallurgy/gem products) - (either group?)
- Enchanting? I still see this as Elemancer territory.
- Clockwork (also uses mining/metallurgy products)
- Alchemy (uses some minerals from mining and skins/bones from animals via trapping.)
- Architecture* (uses board/beams to build) - This may also be available to all players, but Artisans would receive significant bonuses/better options.

could the merchants guild and artificer guild be separate?Or at least one could be become a 'Guest' member for a fee of say 200000 riln or an annual fee of 2000 riln.

Few other suggestions:

- Worker's Focus: Allows for the worker to replenish his energy while working, also increased work speed by a %.

"Collins appears to be intently focused on his work, he moves with speed and proficiency."

So, here are a few ideas... Keep in mind. I've never even joined another guild so I have no idea what would be balanced as far as prerequisites or ranks/bonuses.

Hopefully the ideas simply work as a springboard and a GM who knows much better than I can provide balance.


Adrenaline Rush: (Activated)
Due to hours spent mining and logging, guild members find they are able to control when their body needs a burst of energy. This boost however comes at the cost of a large amount of energy once the effect wears off.
Prerequisite: Mining 100, Logging 50
Rank 1: 30 seconds + 50 dodge and 50 Gen combat
Rank 2: 45 seconds + 75 dodge and 75 Gen combat
Rank 3: 60 seconds +100 dodge +100 Gen combat

Worker's Focus: See details above. (Activated)
- Able to mine/log faster, more efficiently.
- Lowers energy cost.

Influence: See idea details above. (Activated)
- Able to hire/bribe Mercenaries. Barter/Influence skill lowers costs significantly.
- Possibly able to bribe humanoid NPC's to fight/for the guild member? (Robbers for example. Greedy.)

Barter: (Passive)
Rank 1: 5% bonus when selling/ 10% lower merc costs.
Rank 2: 10% bonus when selling /20 % lower merc costs
Rank 3: 15% bonus when selling / 40 % lower merc costs

Natural Resilience: (Passive)
Due to hours spent mining and logging the guild member finds they are stronger and more resilient and able to move more comfortably in heavy armors when needed.
Prerequisite:
Mining: 50
Logging: 50
Rank 1: 2% Melee bonus/Armor rank bonus and/or reduces damage taken in combat by 5%
Rank 2: 4% Melee bonus/Armor rank bonus .... 10%
Rank 3: 6 % Melee bonus/Armor rank bonus .... 15%

Gold Rush!: (for use once new ores are released) (Activated)
Guild Members are able to expend additional energy while mining to focus on finding rare ores/gems of their desire.
Usage: Grush diamond
"Collins glances around the area with a keen eye before beginning to mine with fervor in a particular spot!"
Higher ranks = less engery + better % of returns.

Some ideas I was thinking of:

Talk Up/Swindle: Random chance to occasionally sell something at the market for multiple times its cost.

Merchant's Eye: Ability to see randomly-spawned stalls in markets that sell interesting/unique items. Only merchants with this ability can see and enter these stalls (so others randomly typing "go stall" wouldn't work).

I like those. I'll be around later this afternoon and I'll try to post a few more ideas.

Ideas in mind include something to help with gem cutting, and to protect from pickpockets!

Steady Hand: (Activated)
Ability used when gem cutting to help increase the value of cuts. (Only works when faceting or cutting a cabochon.)
Energy used, but the cut takes less time, and the quality is higher by a %

Natural Perception: (Passive)
Miners become quite talented at keeping a keen eye out for small traces of ore which mine lead to a valuable vein of ore. This can be especially difficult in the dim light of a mine.
This ability is gained after much mining, allowing a % bonus to perception, and a higher chance to catch thieves snooping where they shouldn't.

[quote=Rias]Some ideas I was thinking of:

Talk Up/Swindle: Random chance to occasionally sell something at the market for multiple times its cost.

[/quote]

Rias, I'm wondering how this would work with the 'sell handcart' vs 'sell items individually' thing. Would the entire cart simply have a chance to be 'Talked up'? Or each piece on its own?

To keep it consistent, I'd probably have it be per item rather than the entire cart.

Regarding Logging:

- With the way the system is currently set up, it makes Logging to gain guild ranks rather cruddy compared to more lucrative crafts.

(Same goes for fishing really. Fish don't sell for much at all...)

- Logs - Only 2 fit in handcarts currently, I suppose this is due to their weight. This would make sense except that you can still manage to hold one in each hand. They also only sell for 30 riln which is very low if they are indeed 50 lbs+ each. That's a lot of wood and should be worth more. They make it so that using handcarts to move them is pointless.


Possible solutions:
- Overall increase in the value of selling wood at the market.
- Make Logs lighter (10 lbs instead of 50?)
- Or, make logs worth a lot more. 200+ riln.

Lighter. making them worth more is bad idea

Why would a 50 lbs log of wood that takes a long time to process and move give the same guild ranks as a single copper-bar?

copper bar = 25 riln = 3 guild ranks.

log = 30 riln = 3 guild ranks


Increase log value but a long shot in my opinion.