CLOK BBS

I'm really at a loss here, but I'm trying to figure out why our Utasa aren't sticking around and would love to know from the player base what we could do better, in helping the GM staff keep people around. I know we've been nerfed, or have had a lot of things replaced, and the skill set is much smaller compared to other guilds, but that might change with generalization, but what are some ideas that might help the guild stay healthy with players. I've been playing one for quite a bit of time now, and it makes me sad to see people just kind of float in and out. Meanwhile Udemi is thriving, is it that they have a wider variety of skills, or is it something else.

I wouldn't call having access to more than 50% of your old powers at guild rank one nerfed :P

Though I have been thinking about this and once i get a better idea on what to do with it, i'll be sure to post!

well, yeah, I don't mean that, but we cap out really low, I play mainly for the RP at this point, so what can we do to keep people around, to give them goals. I'm not saying it's bad, i'm just saying for some reason people just don't stay.

Yea, this is very true. I had partially added the "Trusted" status to make all Udemi and Utasa have something more to shoot for. That being said, only like 3% of the Utasa have attained it. while a lot more Udemi have. Just one of those things I suppose! There is always more to aim for! I'll see what i can do to keep things moving.

It'll probably help when Generalization comes out, but have no idea when that'll be. But, it's hard thinking of things like this so Maybe some imput will help. Udemi it looks like there's always so much to attain. Because Utasa work in a sort of small area, it's harder to plan for things. And if you want to be a stealthy one you only are really sneaky in cities. It'd be nice if we had infested tasks in the cities, but I think I might have posted that somewhere, can't remember.

I have a Utasa and I can honestly say that I don't find her much fun to play because it feels like I'm copying another guild. I also feel that some of the abilities are unbalanced.

That's my personal opinion. I don't really know why other people don't stick around.

I only play Utasa and I do have some suggestions. Utasa needs some centralization and direction and to obtain that we need better communication. My character only knows two Utasa besides Ben. He has never been given any sort of briefings, missions, objectives, goals, etc. We are a 'spy agency' of a type but it just in no way at all feels like one. People can walk right in and join us without being vetted. Most people IC could pick out Utasa members out of a line up. Our daily happenings are pretty transparent to the Udemi, while they are Tse Gaiyan I don't think it's in our best interest to have them involved in what we do beyond getting together against infested or resin. I've been planning RP that would give me a sort of direction and I unfortunately missed the last meeting so maybe there was something put out there.

We need rank and file. Agents should be reporting directly to someone beyond our NPCs. Utasa need their own means of communication, I don't think Udemi should have access to the same means of communication Utasa do. The crystal seems under utilized and I think Udemi hear it as well (correct me if I'm wrong). I feel like I am in an agency made up of rogue agents that haphazardly get stuff done.

When I joined Utasa I expected to be involved in a world of lies, subterfuge, secrets and light-bending (yeah the wiki was out of date at the time I joined) that will stop at almost nothing to stop the resin.

Another thing is as spies we can't really spy. I can't be a Utasa and infiltrate the Mercenaries or the Thieves Guild or any guild and that is unfortunate though I understand it may be a difficult thing to manage. I can't disguise myself to hide my true identity from a player or their character and that makes spying even more difficult.

All in all Clok does not lend itself to who we are. The guild really needs a shift in tone. I do have an idea or two I'll probably end up talking to Ben IC about.

Yeah, I have to agree with all of this. We got hit hard with the changes, and while mechanically it's better for us, it hurt a lot of our sort of guild like tendancies. I feel like most our purpose is to help Udemi out since they can't do engaged combat for the most part.

As an Udemi player I have to say that Udemi feels very progressive, and the style of RP that an Udemi is, is very appealing to me (the whole ranger from D&D thing)

I think the opposite of Sleilax however when it comes to Utasa/Udemi interaction. Utasa thrive where Udemi are uncomfortable, and vice versa. They are two halves of a whole and should work more on communicating together rather than being pulled apart. One thing I'd really like to see done is Udemi meeting Utasa agents outside of city gates to do their trading/selling, and picking up information about who's been out in the wilds lately, who might be using more forest resources than they should based on market interactions etc, and then the Udemi can keep an eye on them in the wilds.

To me it feels like the Utasa are supposed to gather the information, and the Udemi are supposed to do something about it, unless it is going on inside a city, then that is Utasa territory.

I definitely think there should be more city-cased activities Utasa can do without going into the wilderness. Utasa are the hunters on the cobblestone forest, and Udemi are the hunters of the regular forest. Udemi hunt animals, collect hides, bring those to the Utasa who tan them and process them into armors. Udemi go mining, Utasa forges the ores into bars and bars into what ever. Etc. so forth.

that's my two cents!

Both branches should be both gathering information and resolving the issues in their respected fields. We have things in the works to make this feel more like whats happening, but that's all i can say on it.

Idea:

Bond mate: At some point an Udemi or Utasa may select ONE(1) Utasa/Udemi to bond with and they're bound through the Gaea indefinately or until one permantley dies (player quits, GM interaction done to remove bond etc).

Bonded Utasa and Udemi get passive combat bonuses when fighting together, like the Utasa getting a better parry/dodge chance while guarding their Udemi, Udemi has a slightly better first aid result on their Utasa.

Bonded commune: allow you to use commune commands that only your bond mate can see. 'commune bond checkin' etc so forth.

other mechanics and RP things to be considered in future, also of course, it would require a ritual to bind an Udemi and Utasa spiritually and thus even more RP!

My problem with that is that the Utasa aren't really in tune with Gaea to the same degree as Udemi. I could see a connection like this between two Udemi, or maybe a one-way benefit otherwise. I dunno, though, that's up to Vinz.

The Gaea isn't the focus of the Tse Gaiyan, the resen is. So the fact that they aren't in tune with it shouldn't matter. You're not a bunch of tree soldiers, you're there to eliminate the spores.

Point in fact, I think a lot of Udemi are under the impression that they are sensitive to the Gaea to keep people from overlogging and such. I think the GMs went through some trouble to change that way of thinking when the infested were logging like crazy. A Udemi shouldn't be on the pendant telling people to "move on" when they see distress, they should be worried that the infested is out there destroying a grove to build up, expel, or infect other people. Unfortunately though, nobody has that mindset - they all think they are green tree soldiers. The resen was always the main focus of the Tse Gaiyan.

THe Tse Gaiyan has never been this organization that protects the forests, like it's being played. A lot of Udemi have that as a personality trait, something that gives them a purpose other than fighting the Resen, but the organization only uses druidry as a tool not as a lifestyle. In that way, it would stand to reason that the Udemi would want to protect the Gaea, but not to the point of ignoring the primary goal which is to fight off the Resen. Utasa have no tie to the Gaea whatsoever, and because of that, if they choose to protect the Gaea, it's because they recognize that there are others who they know feel it's important, it doesn't mean they should feel any attachment to people logging. As for the bonding thing, I agree with Fayne, it's not really something that would make sense with the lore, though it's an interesting idea.
I guess I'm writing this whole post, because it's a guild I love to play and would like to see progression in, and see more people stay around instead of stopping by and testing the guild out and never coming back. I know of three consistent Utasa (that I know of), and the number of Udemi are about 10 times that number. Does anyone else have any reason the Udemi feels like they have something they're pushing for other than the Gaea?

Reading all this talk about Utasa being a spy agency and stuff... I kinda wanted to toss some of my personal opinion here. This is mostly how I feel as a player, and not really indicative of any sort of official GM stance on the guilds. This is all Vinz' area of guruship and I support wherever he decides to take the guild.

I DO play both Utasa and Udemi characters from time to time, though I haven't touched either in a long time because I'm not entirely happy with the direction the mass majority of the guilds have been heading. I feel like if I were to play those characters now, they'd pretty much be outcasts from the guild because of their radical beliefs. My Udemi doesn't really care much for tree hugging, and my Utasa doesn't really mind if people know he's an Utasa. Yet that's pretty much all I ever see when observing Tse Gaiyan players these days.

As the same way Lavi and Lae brought up that the Udemi as an organization aren't focused on protecting the forests - Personally, I also believe the Utasa as an organizaation aren't solely focused on covert operations and spying. Playing the secret agent angle is neat for some and all, but I strongly feel this shouldn't be the focus of the guild. I really think there's a whole lot more to Utasa than that. I view them as the urban defenders against the Resen. They can be entirely overt anti-resen soldiers. There's no need to hide your affiliation with the guild or try to be so secretive about it. Yeah, you CAN play the top secret super spy if that's your thing, but I feel those should kinda be the exceptions, not the norm. The Tse Gaiyan as an organization needs lots of soldiers to do their fighting, and not all of them have the knack for or care for druidry. That's where the Utasa come in. I kinda view them more like a mix between Wyrvardn and Mercenaries, but with a primary focus on anti-Resen activities.

^ This. Besides that, haven't the Utasa lost almost all of their "spy" abilities? I just think of them as agents now. Agents against the resen threat.

They still have two, but in the end i am going with what jirato has explained. There will in time be some changes to better reflect all of this in the future. there will almost be two paths for them to walk. I think the way the current setup has established there isnt a possible way for someone to belong to the tse gaiyan and not have druidry and maintain a cover. id like to see a kind of inner circle of spys amoung the utasa while its possible to join and become a gureilla fighter who is a master of the urban environment without having to worry about the spy thing if you dont want too. we need feet on the ground andmore importantly as others have pointed out. if you dont have druidy, then its impossible to belong to the tse gaiyan and not be a spy so literally every spy in the game has thus been outed. I have been thinking on this idea for awhile and will be trying to put some words to paper soon after discussing the whole deal with the other gms.

I like the sound of what Vinz is saying.

We've been told for ages that there Udemi who don't have druidry, but there hasn't even been an NPC that I've ever seen to back this claim up. I think it'd be nice to have two paths for the Udemi, it might take a bit of the focus away from the Gaea and more towards eliminating the Resen.

Also, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with everyone about Utasa. I've seen people TRY to do the whole "secret indercover agent" thing, and they always give up soon because it's just not possible. Like Vinz said, it's impossible to be Tse Gaiyan and not have druidry unless you're an agent, so busted. Another thing, Utasa PCs teally don't do anything secret-agent-y. I've been involved in an event where I had to dtand in for an Utasa because there was only one on at the time, and I thought it felt like a secret agent mission, all until a couple minutes after it began, it left the town and went out into the wilderness and instantly became an Udemi thing. And then, the one task they have that is supposed to be secret-agent-y feels less like a secret agent and more like a noble burglar. Utasa just don't feel like secret agents, they feel like those guys the Udemi keep around for the rare occassion when the Resen is in a city and clean the toilets or something. I've actually got an idea for improving that task I mentioned, but I won't post it here.

But anyway, I like the idea of having the Utasa split into two paths as well. I already know two people who represent each side pretty well. Heh

I do have one request though. If and when these changes occur, could we maybe get our abilities and points reset so that we can go mix and match if we want? I likely won't ever give up druidry, but I'd still like that option.

I liked the spy idea, when I started, but the game really doesn't lend well to spies, so I started playing my Utasa, kind of how Jirato put it one who doesn't care, but my character is in a bit of a position, right now so it's not really great to be too out there, but there's not really another way to play it, also it's true most of our spy abilities are gone, so it's looking like that's not going to happen. I really do like the fact that this is an on going conversation though, and I'm glad Vinz is working on things to help the guild out because it's got a lot potential I think, it's just frustrating at times to be treated like a spy who's not really good at spying, or the lacky for the Udemi.

If I were ever to play a Utasa, I would totally play the "elite anti-resen fighter" angle. Utasa being sneaky and spy-...y isn't bad, since I can understand the "we need to find out about infested that are infiltrating cities and walking among us covertly" thing, but I don't think it needs to be a necessary thing for every single member to be all secretive and "I'd tell you but I'd have to kill you" or "I have no idea what you're talking about, I am definitely not Utasa."

Without specific reason not to, towns should be happy that Utasa soldiers/agents/whatever-you-want-to-call-them are stationed around town to help keep the resen out. Instead, they've kind of developed a reputation of sneaky, nosy snoops who are spying on everyone and gathering information on everyone to ... who knows? Blackmail? Expose things that have nothing to do with the Tse Gaiyan? Sell it to the highest bidder? Just be a snoop in general? Pretty much nobody likes it when they feel they're being secretly surveilled. The general view of Utasa seems to be "those annoying, nosy spies that get involved in everyone else's business" rather than wardens against the resen who fight to keep the cities free of infestation. They could use some good rep and PR by some straightforward, open members who work with people instead of being all sneaky and secretive and smug. Note I said some: As I mentioned, I defintiely think there's a place for the sneakiness and such as well.

As far as the tangent of Udemi who don't have druidry - I assume every single Udemi has druidry because of the general "why not?" attitude that pervades MUDs like this. You can get it, and at no cost or balance to yourself, so why would you opt not to? This might change when generaized abilities come out and people will have a whole slew of other abilities to choose from that compete for those precious ability points (there will be a maximum).

P.S. It is possible for a Utasa (or anyone else) to keep their affiliation completely unknown. I've seen it done successfully a grand total of one time, and I applaud that person (I think they know who they are). (QUICK! Start suspecting EVERYone!)

P.P.S. Bwahaha at the Dunwyr converting so many Udemi to their extremist ways. I'm so proud!

Are we going to see Generalization soon?

Soon(tm). (This isn't the thread to discuss it in.)

Lavi wrote:Are we going to see Generalization soon?

Probably not, but I'm eagerly awaiting it.