CLOK BBS

All those things are right, but The templar has increased effectiveness on the mount with trample and mounted charge, the rook doesn't, Minions won't need a whole spear of light or sun disc because they are half of the Rooks abilities, and half the templars, which means it is easily killed, zeal is another weapons ability, in this scenario, since martyr is on a timer and ice barbs break, and nethrim attacks aren't as effective, I believe the templar has the advantage.

'Minions won't need a whole spear of light or sun disc because they are half of the Rooks abilities' What does this even mean?

Also Ice Barbs do break.. I have never seen armor break within one fight.

Zeal is a combat ability I over looked, thanks for mentioning it. Though, nethrim attacks are weakened, cryomatic enhanced melee attacks shouldn't be.

Minions have a skill capacity of half that of the sorcerer who summoned it, therefor it would half the skills of the templar, because the sorcery and templar are evenly matches, and while armor may not break, ice barbs do,l so that bonus doesn't last forever. Sorry about this mess I call typing, sleeping medicine is kicking in.

Don't forget guaranteed Light damage flares on melee with Serafina's Blessing when channeling thaumaturgy. Coupled with Zeal (higher chance of shield bash, chance to get multistrikes with primary weapon even when holding a shield in off hand) that's bye bye to nethrim and some serious extra damage to tainted folk.

I'm glad I was able to spark some discussion.

The intent behind my idea wasn't to make it a "Templar Win" button, but I do think it would be quite powerful against Netherim, or someone Tainted.

I also wanted to have it come at great personal sacrifice. I imagine that the Templar could/should even fall unconscious if they were already tired or weak and then tried to pull off a Major Beacon.

It might be fair to incur skill penalties as well, in a similar manner that Soul Beacon does, if it's a particularly powerful ability.

[quote=Nootau][quote=Acarin]Just to comment on this... We keep discussing being tainted as if it is a choice. In many cases it is not. One of the great things about this game is that we're not always given the choice. Sometimes greatness (or less than greatness) is thrust upon us.[/quote]Can you explain what your 'many cases' are even referring to?[/quote]

It's refering to individuals who became tainted without being given the choice.

Unfortunately I cannot give more details. This may be a game secret and I don't want to spoil it for anyone or step on any toes. A GM can feel free to comment on this though.

Tainting can indeed occur automatically rather than by choice.

Just curious on how shadow orb would interact with minor bacon. Would it negate some of the bonuses as it should be rapidly absorbing the light being generated? Does the light increase stack with a halo (if both can be run at once)?

I'd imagine that because thaumaturgy is supposed to be able to overcome nether, that the shadow orb shouldn't be able to handle the light put off by any thaumaturgic source. But that's just my two cents.

I think it was posted somewhere before that a shadow orb will actually absorb the light from a halo due to the extreme density of the nether in the orb... and that orbs are sufficient to extinguish the light from multiple sources including thaumaturgic sources...I think it's the only example of nether trumping thaum, although indirectly. So I don't think thaumaturgy burns orbs away if it's just absorbing the light. Light is just that... photons/waves...

Which brings me to the question: What makes thaumaturgic light different from other light? Is it a special wavelength? I wouldn't think so as it's obviously in the visible spectra (and probably across the entire spectra since it seems as if it's the color of daylight or more "golden") and also the IR spectra (due to it's warming effects). I imagine it doesn't make it far into the UV spectra as that could possibly have a detrimental impact on those exposed (Lae's been spreading malignant melanoma with her healing!)

Is there another thaumaturgical "substance" behind it? We have a pretty good idea about what nether is but this hasn't really been addressed. If it's just light and nothing else then what distinguishes it from light produced by other sources and what causes such profound effects? I'd be interested in learning more about it.

Change of medium? Special photons? The force of the soul behind the light? Possibly some trace left by some god in people that allows them to inherently manipulate light by saturating it with the gods essence? Any of these viable in some way?

Another question, if shadow orb absorbs small sources of light, can a Elemancer increase how much light he creates through pyromancy by increasing the size of his candle or the flames wrapping around him when using fire aspected shields to combat the darkness?

Shadow Orb isn't a case of nether trumping thaumaturgy, though it can absorb some of the resulting light of a halo or beacon, etc. without getting burned away.

The basic nature and composition of thaumaturgy isn't fully understood. This is due largely to the fact that thaumaturgy is not wielded via knowledge of the energy/substance/whatever-you-believe-it-is itself, but sheerly via channeling one's own discipline, compassion, and interpretation of one's inner soul. You could say thaumaturges are far less scholarly about it than other channelers would be, in general, since its practitioners are by definition more interested in using thaumaturgy to help their fellow man rather than study its properties. This isn't to say studies have never been made (I'm sure some people have tried), but nothing particularly conclusive has been discovered on the subject. It's more or less unique and anomolous.

The most common belief is that thaumaturgy or one's "Inner Light" is a manifestation of one's own spirit or soul that works by somehow interacting with the spirit or soul of those it comes in contact with. The visible light, warmth, and its effects on nether are considered by some to be by-products. Fire, lightning, bioluminescence - all these things give off light, but are not light themselves.

What happens if a Templar becomes Tainted? Does the light protect him or is he still vulnerable to it?

Taint and thaumaturgy don't coexist well, if that's what you're wondering. If a Templar has become tainted, he's beyond protecting from such at that point, isn't he? Thaumaturgic light does protect, to a degree, from taint and nether. If the thaumaturge was willingly accepting or taking the taint upon himself, or subjecting himself to it on purpose, his light wouldn't protect him. Then we get to the previously-mentioned thaumaturgy and taint not coexisting well - a tainted thaumaturge is an impossibility.

Rias wrote:Taint and thaumaturgy don't coexist well, if that's what you're wondering. If a Templar has become tainted, he's beyond protecting from such at that point, isn't he? Thaumaturgic light does protect, to a degree, from taint and nether. If the thaumaturge was willingly accepting or taking the taint upon himself, or subjecting himself to it on purpose, his light wouldn't protect him. Then we get to the previously-mentioned thaumaturgy and taint not coexisting well - a tainted thaumaturge is an impossibility.

Definitely ... true.

Rias wrote:Taint and thaumaturgy don't coexist well, if that's what you're wondering. If a Templar has become tainted, he's beyond protecting from such at that point, isn't he? Thaumaturgic light does protect, to a degree, from taint and nether. If the thaumaturge was willingly accepting or taking the taint upon himself, or subjecting himself to it on purpose, his light wouldn't protect him. Then we get to the previously-mentioned thaumaturgy and taint not coexisting well - a tainted thaumaturge is an impossibility.

Hasn't it been stated that Nether taint isn't always a choice?

What happens to a paladin that becomes involuntarily tainted? Does he lose every thin he's worked for? Is the battle over before it begins? Is it impossible for him to be tainted involuntarily?

This is what I meant by that.

As far as I know you can't pour a bottle of nether down someone's throat and make them become tainted (mostly because that would probably kill them instantly). It's not a disease or contagion. I may be way off base here, but nether taint seems to only happen if your actions have decreased the purity of your soul enough to allow it. So someone who is a knight templar following the practices and guidelines of Serafina should never have to worry about something like this.

Also, I think we may be derailing the topic here. Wasn't this thread about minor beacon?

Kiyaani wrote:someone who is a knight templar following the practices and guidelines of Serafina should never have to worry about something like this.

Ding.